Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I, for one, believe that they are good for drag racing....You have all heard the reasons....Especially, "Win on Sunday" sell on Monday. As an old timer, and in my case, really, how many 1968 Dodge Darts or 1969 Roadrunners drag cars are going to help sales for the dealerships? At best, the spectator will say, "wow, they really had some cool cars 45 years ago"....but realistically, the new cars can generate sales/profits for the manufacturer and dealers.....Maybe that will create additional financial interest in our sport.

I believe that once the horsepower deals get worked out.....the new cars will help our sport....Your comments are welcomed.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Yes absolutely. "A rising Tied lifts all boats"

Certainly has brought more attention to Stock/Super Stock classes.

Outside of the NHRA Racing family there seems to have been a little bit of a resurgence of drag specific parts interest and sales for late model vehicles. I notice it on other car forums that are not drag racing specific that more threads pop up about going to the track for the 1st time and also buying parts specifically to lower ETs.

For some of us that wasn't around in the "good ole days" with the factory teams duking it out. This is our "good ole days" where we get to partake in the excitement this go around.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Not good for the sport, unless they are all equal.

Supercharged vs Naturally aspirated?????

When did that become equal?

It only became legal when Ford became a sponsor and started sucking on the NHRA's tailpipe. And it is no coincidence that Ford was the only one with a supercharger running in Stock and later in Super Stock.

They got the "Make Your Own Air" edge.

And then Chevy was next. A supercharged Copo. And suddenly the Fords had a little real competition. But they had already owned the playground, and ruled the roost for quite a while, so who could now object to a bow tie winning a few races. It only seemed fair. And another supercharged car competed with naturally aspirated cars.

Chrysler was NOT allowed to put a supercharger on the Drag Paks. Why? Because if they had, both Ford and Chevy would have had to compete with innovation, rather than just turn the screw for more horsepower.

But Chrysler will have to continue trying to do with cubic inches and the last great push rod engines, with what Ford and Chevy do with hair dryers.

But the question was not, are supercharged cars in Stock, and Super Stock fair.

So here is my answer:

Generally, the new technology cars are good for the sport because the crowds (the twelve to eighteen people, who show up for stock, and super stock) enjoy them.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

do you honestly believe anything you just typed? Last great pushrod engines? yea, look at a 427 coop. I don't see people putting new hemi's in everything with wheels and some things without.......that would be the Lsx platform.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Its all as **&*$ up as a soup sandwich!

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Who would have ever believed we would see $ 100,000 Stockers in the "entry level" class racer ranks ? Wow.

With that said, I think it has opened more eyes from people who never knew what NHRA Stock was about.

I hear several people at work talk about the COPO Camaros and they had no clue what Stock Eliminator was all about. (until now)

I say yes to the thread title, as long as they are factored correctly.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

If they had legit hp ratings they would be great. Rate them right and nobody would have a problem with them. Who cares what they cost?

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I think it's great for the sport and my future. A few years back I was really wondering where this whole drag racing thing was taking me. Now that we have some new cars and combinations to race with it seems to have put some spirit back into the sport. I have to say it was very refreshing to see all the new cars at Indy battling it out and everyone so happy to be there doing it.

My next goal is to get more involved with the other brands, hint, hint.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

It's the interest of the factories plus the potential for new fans that makes these cars good for the sport. Plus I think interest in the new muscle cars will only revive interest in the old muscle cars.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I think its a good thing! I just wish the big 3 would do more for the older cars that made them what they are!

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

With about 20 "new" cars in Super Stock and almost 50 in Stock - not factoring anything other than the initial investment in the cars themselves - that's over $7 million in new race cars in the classes we love (Cars like the Driller are way over $100k to build so this number is low). Now I know I for one can't afford one but many others can and we should be happy to have people that committed to these classes. Now when you pull out the ones that ran in the FS classes, the ones running their real classes were spread throughout the field with several DNQ's, not gross domination as many of these combos have been taken several HP hits the last couple seasons. There are enough of these cars now, enough money spent and enough ego's, without a security blanket like the FS class, these combos will continue to get HP. I do disagree the FS class should be run without HP penalty and allow to bump others out of a field like Indy as that situation will not correct itself via AHFS.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Now NHRA has to classify all the other American cars they left out over the years..

ie..Cadillac SCLS3, All GM, Food, Chrysler V6 entries

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

We had $100,000 stockers long before 2008.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

They are probably good for the sport, they just need to be designated Factory Experimental. They could race in Stock Eliminator and have correct index's and have the AHFS applied equally. I think this classification would help the factory make them more sought after.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Yes, they are great for class racing.
But, running FS without penalty is wrong.
All the 1,000' qualifying and class runs need to be resolved, either by lowering the indexes, a more effective means of AHFS and factoring.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Yes, we did Charlie Bob. Pass the beans.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Yes they are good for the sport, especially the additional $ that they require to be track ready. That $ and new methods learned by the engine, tranny, clutch, electronics, chasis shops is all benefitial to the sport......that said, I would have also liked/would like to see the big 3 submit their street cars to the guide just like in the past. More innovation and creativity would follow......think Nees with a rental 2013 6 banger challenger entered into stock eliminator.driven to and from the track like it used to be done.....I'd do it too....I don't need to go 130+ to have fun! Drama free fun, is pretty additive too. The Copo's, CJ's and Drag Paks are all nice pieces that look great in a garage parked next to their older fathers....But what do you think is a bigger fan draw? A 09 Dragpak, or a 77 Gremlin....the Gremlin hands down.....yes the new cars are good for the sport, but more new cars than just the super cars would be even better at least in my eyes.


Eric

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I was parked next to a 2012 Mustang CobraJet SS car at E-Town....

I met the owner and his crew and also worked on the car a little on Sunday when they had some trouble.

The owner is a very accomplished and successful business man and those business's were all aftermarket automotive products most any car guy has bought and used. We could hardly have raced without most of them. The man has quite a life story and he shared some of it with me and I was very impressed.....and he also is and was always a huge supporter of the Sportsman racers in general..

This was my first hands on experience with one of these cars and trust me when I say they are pretty awesome in looks and build quality and the performance out on the racetrack. I have also seen a COPO up close and personal and up on a lift.......Nice...

The Mustang drew a lot of attention is all I can say and a lot of people took pictures and really seemed to be attracted to it especially on Sunday......

Although I lost early in S/C on Saturday.......... overall I enjoyed the heck out of meeting the owner and working on his car a little and the race was a great one to me because of it....

It definitely is a good thing that these cars are out there for the added shot of enthusiasm they bring.

I love '69 Camaro's......Always have....always will....but we need to see something new and adjust as needed to make it work....

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Just fix the bogus HP ratings and they will still be awesome. Just won't be raping older cars in heads ups. Indy shoot out qualifying should tell you how far off they are.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I like Eric M's point about more than just the super cars in the guide-I don't know if ithey are, but I'd love to see someone bring out a new Camaro v-6 or a mustang v-6 etc. I'm for any cars with less than eight cylinders.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I agree 100% with you on this Ed....

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Last year I was told by an NHRA official that Ford had zero intentions of ever giving them specs for any car newer than '08 or '10 that was not a Cobra Jet race car. In other words, no real production street cars in the guide from Ford.

They are nice cars, and there are good people who own them. But they belong in their own class, or at least their own sub classes. They do not belong in the same class or classes as real production street cars that were sold new with valid VINs, and all the equipment necessary to operate legally on public streets.

Can they be good for the sport? Sure. Have they really yielded all of the attention from the media or attendance from fans we were assured they would? Not even close. Will they? Probably not, the way things are being done at this point.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Yes they are. Around 1967/1968 there was a story in one of the major magazines, Hot Rod, Popular Hot Rodding, or Car Craft ...I don't remember which, but the story was titled, " ARE THE FACTORYS RUINING HOT RODDING?" It's sad to say, but history does repete itself, and the 1960s muscle cars / Factory Race Cars did not ruin hot rodding or drag racing. Neither will the new "Factory Hot Rods." Additionally, 3 years ago, Bruce, Travis, Danny, and others, completely revised the AHFS. It would have brought the HP Ratings in check much faster. But because of lobbing by the "Older under factored combos", your SRAC members voted it down. So suck it up, find more HP, play the lower the HP game, or buy a new Factory Hot Rod. JB.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Well said Jim.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

What do you race Jim Bailey?

The SRAC is powerless. Can not vote down what Danny & Co wants to do.
We're they going to police all 4 barrels connected? Monitor throttles being run at WOT?
Outlaw shutting off at 1000'?

They have made a few guys that were never fast before suddenly fast.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Yes they are.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

How was the entire AHFS completely revised? Or what was the "proposal"?

NHRA did not put any of it to a vote. They may have asked some people what they wanted. But no racer is going to tell Gracia or Bachelder what to do.

The ONLY way to make the AHFS work is to reward performance. We've asked for that repeatedly, and NHRA is not listening. You want the AHFS to work? Pay points and money for qualifying and class eliminations, and hold class eliminations at every event.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

And there is nothing in there from anyone else post 2008 either. Well the Camaro SS is in there for 2010, but it's factored nearly the same as a 427 COPO so it might as well not be there. Not a single other production car of any make in the guide after 2008.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I would have to say it's been a mixed bag. The new cars have definitely brought new folks into drag racing. The Skillman's are as nice as anyone you would ever meet and that Mustang has given Charlie Bob a new reason to race. On the flip side , they have also run some people off. It's such a shame because it could of been all positive. All NHRA had to do was put these cars in their own classes and rate them half way fairly. They could of run in Stock and Super Stock eliminator and because the old cars wouldn't of had to race them heads up or in class I think most everyone would have embraced them. Running in their own classes they could have been featured at national events and the manufacturers would of had the exposure they wanted. Sadly we have management at Nhra that is short sighted and really doesn't understand drag racing, so consequently we have an organization that has lost business and probably won't ever get it back.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

^^ Looks like an opportunity for IHRA to take the lead here and allow (real) production cars. (6 or 8 cyl.)

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I think they are good for the sport. Ford has left the pro ranks to support Ford sportsman racers. If Chevrolet and Dodge do the same it will be a great thing.

What is so wrong to bring support $$$ to the sportsman classes?

The 69 Camaros still seem to be winning their share among all of the factory super cars!

Moving forward was never a bad thing for any sport.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Forgive me here, but I thought the big reason they never put a blower on the DP cars was because they couldn't keep the cranks in them?

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

They are great and do add to the sport. Just don't want to see it at the expense of the older cars as we are seeing it now. Just look at the Q sheets for Indy and you will see the effect of the new cars with the soft factors. The playing field needs to be level for all competitors. Then the class will be healthy.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

This.......

and besides , the newer cars don't exhibit anywhere NEAR the "cool factor" of the older cars.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

A great thing for Drag Racing. Only weak link is like carb/charger/turbo cars should be in separate classes. Cannot judge Supercharged versus carb versus injected any more than old Injected motors versus carb motors....

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I don't think it is a question of NHRA allowing them. It's a matter of the OEM submitting the specifications for the guides. No OEM specifications, no place in the guides.

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Good point..

Over the next few years it will get sorted out...

Like the Turbo Buick V6's.

Which still impress !

D

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

Any thoughts on. Why they will not supply OEM specs? I wouldn't think it would be hard to generate these specs and it certainly wouldn't hurt to put some standard GT,RT and SS out there on Sunday .

Re: Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?
 

I have wrote complete specs for showroom Challengers with stock motors. I think NHRA will implement them next year. Worked on this with Mopar and NHRA. Titles, VIN, and all the stuff.