Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
Anybody know just what they are aiming at? Maybe I'm just old and dumb (no comments). I looked at my stuff and really can't quite get a handle on it. I also looked at several old cars (Bruce, don't shoot me) and the configuration is basically the same from a 68 cuda, to present. I guess if you put bearings instead of bushings is the issue.
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Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
This is likely what they are talking about. I'm sure that GM cars have a similar set-up available to them.
http://www.qa1.net/qa1_motorsports/d...trut-bars.html |
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Rhodes, I can read that. I'm looking for the deeper inner meaning. I'm gonna choke you next time I see you. We been using aftermarket bushings on our stuff for so long it isn't funny. Mostly availability issue. There is some adjustment in the strut on all the older factory cars, none on the new ones. I know about the bearings on the control arms. Is that those things with the rollers in a cage that you grease? Or is that a mystical circular device related to Stonehenge that will explode on Dec 21. Only the Myans know for sure.
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Those rods/shafts go from the lower control arm to the front of the K-member on each side. What's unusual is that the NHRA statement specifies the strut rods in the header. But in the body of the letter, they talk about the entire front suspension in general! So are they going to have suspension teardowns in the barn to look inside all of the pivot points now? Fords too! ;) |
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I put a call in today to a NHRA tech guy to help clarify what is meant by the wording in the post. I do not believe it is a worry to the GM cars, but could effect the Fords and Mopars with the front strut rods. Remember how an old Mopar would shimmy the front tires on lauch sometimes, that is what will happen again if this rule is enforced. The front strut rod has to be secured and stable for the car to run safely, especially at 150 plus MPH. This will not happen with the old Mopar setup, a long rod with two rubber bushings trying to hold it steady. Dyno
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A few companies make replacement polyurethane bushings for the strut rods which are stiffer and more durable than OEM rubber.....and legal.
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If it is enforced like the A Body suspension rule ( AKA WEBIE SUSPENSION ) in a couple of months it will be all forgotten about.
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I emailed Div II tech and asked if the "front suspension" included the tie rod ends and steering components. I know lots of people replace ends with Heims to aid in alignment and bump steer. And fab draglinks. Awaiting a response.
Jeff, not calling you dumb, but you do try and play that way sometimes to stir the pot. |
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First gen Chevy II's have needed this mod. for atleast 40 years now..
I figured it was legal now..with all the GT FWD conversions out there... I guess safety is a not a big concern this week...They used it up last week on the Stocker seats. Remember...You need a roll bar in 12.85 Stockers ,,,for safety! On my 62 Tempest... (not a Class car) it was cheaper to fix the struts this way, than to buy the old replacement bushings. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps99750374.png |
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DAMMMM, How long are those collectors?
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Phil, It was a street car...3" exhaust all the way back.
The back part was made to slip off , leaving the standard long collector in place. |
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Heim joints ... no can do ..
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Were folks using them on the struts? I don't think they could go on the control arms. I know they ok on the steering.
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Jeff, you can always remove the front stock suspension and put one of these units in...just like the old a/fx b/fx c/fx cars from the 60's.
http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/images/IMG_5635_large.jpg |
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They don't look like spherical bearings or heims to me |
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I read this as only pertaining to replacing strut rod donut bushings with heims.
I've worked on and aligned many AMC's Fords,Mopars And GM's with heims replacing the bushing and see no benefit other than safety .[ OK mabe a little header clearance ] Mabe NHRA should ask Bob Bender how his car handled at the top end when it split a rubber strut bushing out after the launch. ,yes that tank has a strut rod front suspension. Alowing you to use a heim to replace a tie rod end ,but not allowing their use on a strut rod is foolish , at least in Super Stock. This really needs to be addressed by the S/SS racer reps as soon as possible. |
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The ones in the picture are the offerings for the Mopars. As I understand, Gary Wisecarver also offers a needle bearing bushing for the GM cars. I would assume the rule will also affect Fords and AMC's with the Open Tracker Spherical Bearing control arms too. Ford Mustang http://www.opentrackerracingproducts...glower-300.jpg http://www.opentrackerracingproducts...garm-300-1.jpg http://www.opentrackerracingproducts...ayperches2.jpg AMC http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.../amcrspkit.jpg http://www.opentrackerracingproducts...c/amcperch.jpg Chevy II http://www.opentrackerracingproducts...chevyarms1.jpg http://www.opentrackerracingproducts...chevyarms3.jpg |
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If you can trust NHRA's wording ,a speherical bearing is one designed to allow angular, or radial misalignment ,such as would happen to a locating strut rod during normal suspension travel.
I've used these with a weld cup at the front of a Mopar strut rod, in place of the rubber. |
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The clarification as written is too broad; it does not specifically say strut rods: "The NHRA Technical department wants to remind Stock and Super Stock Eliminator competitors the use of spherical bearings / heim joints is prohibited. The 2013 NHRA Rulebook, section 10A page 7 and section 11A page 5 SUSPENSION FRONT reads in-part “Must retain complete stock front suspension system as produced be manufacturer for body used." The use of spherical bearings or heim joints to replace the bushing in any vehicle is in violation of the NHRA Rulebook. Competitors with spherical bearings or heim joints must bring their vehicle into full compliance with NHRA rules and regulations; prior to their next event." The way I read the statement is that spherical bearing and/or heim joints are prohibited and not to be used in any suspension component and must reamin stock or as produced. |
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Jeez.... What do you guys want for your thousands spent with NHRA every year...Clarity?
There goes my Christmas card from Glendora :-( |
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I talked to the tech dept about this subject. They said the clarification applies to cars that have had the front bushings on the adjustable strut rods replaced with heim joints or ball type joints. Cars that use true lower control A-arms are not affected because they do not use a strut rod.
This all started with a complaint to the tech dept about a SS/AH car. When researched, several of the cars were found to have modified the front suspension strut rods. Early Novas, early Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Mopars, and any other car with a lower control arm that incorporates a single bushing attaching it to the frame also fall into this category. If your Stock or S/S car has a strut rod and it has been modified, then it needs to be changed back to the stock type bushing set up. |
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The NCIS (National Cajun Investigative Service) has been on the job. Seems the issues here are twofold. One is the spherical bearing on the end of the strut rods instead of the old rubber bushing. Is it worth something, safer, both maybe. I think we can all agree it's safer. What is on your car? The other issue is the heim joint on the end of the strut rod instead of the aforementioned old bushing. I guess both do the same thing. Seems one was noticed in Chicago (spherical) and the other was on a couple SS/AH cars somewhere. Something to do with the width of the frame members (B instead of A body). Maybe yall with an interest in this could email me jefft@southlanddodge.com and we could see just what problems might be addressed at the same time. I think we need an answer before next season, and the SRAC is basically over for this year and election for members is on the horizon. And it's the Holiday Season. I think this affects old and new cars depending on model. I have some of each. Interest? Send me what you think. Pictures welcome. Racing season is closer than I like and nobody needs to get pitched because of some bushing.
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Jeff, Email sent. Dan
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This issue is really no different than the long-standing rule that allows for the replacement of biscuit rubber bushings with those of solid metal material such as aluminum or steel. Those applications include frame to body bushings in vehicles such as 1st & 2nd Generation Camaro's / Firebirds, Nova, etc. Why would NHRA allow for the replacement of those body bushings? Obviously NHRA understands these are race cars, not streets of New York street cars.
You have to ask what a rubber bushing is for on a vehicle. Is it something there to make the car function better (or worse) or is it something to do with ride harshness, vibration and functionality on various road conditions? The body bushings obviously are made for ride and comfort compliance. NHRA allows the replacement of body bushings with solid metal bushings. Strut rod bushings are no different. The are designed to flex under varying road conditions and provide isolation of the suspension from the rest of the vehicle. There is little, if any (I'm at a loss to think of any performance advantage), reason to replace strut rod bushings with some other attachment that does not use rubber bushings. There is a myriad of ways around the rubber bushings but the bottom line is; why would a racer eliminate the rubber bushing? It is simple. A more solid method of attaching the strut rod (which holds the lower control arm in compliance to the suspension travel), allows for better fore & aft control of the lower control arm from point "A" to point "B" of the drag-strip. This includes the movement from the starting line, wheel-stands if applicable, traveling the length of the track (and no track is lazer straight), and finally, hitting the brakes at the conclusion of the race. Obviously the most extreme focal points of the strut rod are wheelies and heavy breaking. Heavy breaking can be either to avoid a potential break-out Or in the instance of accident avoidance. Either way, the strut-rod bushing takers a beating. Obviously the results of heavy breaking and breaking a strut rod support will cause disastrous results to the vehicle. And quite possible the opponent and even the spectators. Now, in the interest of the rule as presently defined, this leaves the racer with a few choices. He can use poly type bushings which are less compliant than OEM rubber bushings. This obviously will tighten up the front suspension and will most likely lead to less weight transfer. Ah Ha! That may be what your competitors are after and they most likely pushed for this rule "clarification". OK, a racer will get around that. He will go the old tried and true method of using an OEM style bushing and install it so loose it will hardly function. Now your competitor should be happy along with NHRA. But what have you created? You have created a race vehicle that is unsafe as the strut rod, if not secured properly may break; thereby loosing control of the vehicle. If nothing else, an improperly secured strut-rod will cause stability control issues. Remember, none of these old strut-rod vehicles were designed as race cars with wheelies in mind, 130-150 MPH trap speeds, and heavy breaking at high speeds on skinny front tires. To dictate a suspension must be OEM compliant when a racer is simply looking for a safer ride is unacceptable. The same argument applies to inner control arm bushings. The arguments before my post that NHRA requires OEM bushings is preposterous, NHRA requires OEM suspensions and that is not a dictation of methods of controlling those OEM suspension pieces. Again, the alternative to the purist argument is the installation of sloppy, cut-down OEM style bushings that are more effective than an OEM application for performance at the expense of an improperly controlled suspension used in an environment it was never intended for. |
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Jeff L., what you stated is what I sent to Jeff T., my concern is trying to maintain control of my car for my safety and the racer next to me. I spoke to two very will known chassis builders today and heard stories from them what happens with rubber mounted strut rods and braking on the end of a run, not locking the tires up, just trying to stop in a normal way. I hope NHRA looks at what they are trying to accomplish by this rule change. Dyno
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What is the benefit other than safety ? Nonsense.
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Well said Jeff and Jeff LOL. I agree with both of you and I just realized what makes my car "hunt" in the shut down area. I still have the rubber bushings in mine and I was going to change them because I realized just how much the wheels move forward and rearward with the rubber bushings but I didn't realize it was toeing out under braking and that's why my car "hunts" I never understood that until now. Thank you.
I wish I was home to take a picture of the inside of the wheel housing on rear side by the firewall. I've always noticed that its always down to bare metal from the tire rubbing it. I would paint that area and after being out with the car once or twice it was polished shiny metal again. That's when I realized that the tires were moving that far back under braking and coming down off wheelies. I ordered the spherical bearing from Calvert to fix this issue. I hope NHRA understand that this is a SAFETY issue!!! |
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Very well said!
1) trap speeds are over 160mph on AH cars. 2) You are going to require 7:50 sfi certs BUT want a passenger car front suspension?? 3) The major advantage besides safety is looser front suspension/ increased travel- a high horsepower SS car does not need a looser front end. |
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IMO - With all of the other stuff that gets by, or what is now accepted as "Legal" in STK & SS nowadays this is nothing more than nonsensical BS, and looks only to give credence to someones job / position @ Glendora... They've gotta come up with something and this is it.
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Safety should be NHRA's only concern for rule enforcement! However common sense doesn't always prevail. Strut rods with loose 48 year old rubber bushings or even new replacement bushings were never designed by the manufacturer to accelerate and stop like these cars do today. Just like drum brakes, the cars were unsafe so, disc brakes were added.
I'm sure you could find a spherical bearing on 99 % of the front suspension of vehicles competing in Stock and Super-stock. The shocks everyone uses has bearings on the mounting points. Does this mean we all have to go back to modifying stock shocks.....that should be safe? Anyone want to line up beside a new mustang going 150 plus mph then stepping on the brakes after he or she modified their stock struts? Yikes. |
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Hey guys, I'm home on R&R and I took some pics to show you how bad the rubber bushings let the tire/wheel move and interfere with the inner-fender well on my car. The car hasn't been out in 3 years so the bare metal looks a little rusty but when I was running the car regularly it was really shiny and polished looking. Anyways, I don't know how NHRA can not see that this is a safety issue. Not only is the interference/contact an issue but like Jeff C. said it allows the car to "hunt" in the shutdown area under hard breaking causing a toe out issue.
Drivers side http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...psca992f3b.jpg Passenger side http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps3b7badea.jpg |
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