Video at NHRA events
 

Everybody see NHRA's note posted today on video at events?
http://www.nhradiv3.com/apcm/templat...2627&zoneid=18

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Not to start a s***storm, but since there is so minimal "corporate/mainstream" broadcasting currently available of stock and superstock racing, the only decent source for video is what you racers post. Within the big corporate realm, what am I missing?

I love the videos you folks post!

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

WANKERS!!

What if a fan posts that has a restricted area pass or even from the stands?

What's the penalty here or if it's a racer doing it? I got in trouble a fews years back with me 'hood cam' in Sonoma, (everybody loved that one) then it got put into the rule book the next year condemning video?????? At the time I was told it conflicted with ESPN, I said, well show some real action from the Sportsman, obviously corporate BS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81YFrziTEok

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

So exactly what does this mean -

The NHRA Rulebook, section 1.9 and 1.10, pages 25-26, cover this and related subjects. To sum it up, shooting video at the track other than for competition/analytical purposes is strictly prohibited.

If I read this correctly, I can take video of MY vehicle for competition or analytical purposes, as long as I follow section 1.9 and 1.10 of the rule book, but I can't share it with any one. Does that about sum it up?

"Any reuse or retransmission of any video taken at Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series events without the express written permission of the NHRA is strictly prohibited!"

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Translation: our most valuable franchise asset is racing footage. YouTube is a mortal threat to that asset. Don't you dare put your video on there.

Very smart move to get ahead of this in the age of everyone with GoPros posting "extreme in-car" footage and the like. From a corporate sense, I mean.

No different than the NFL, same business model. Footage pays off forever, the gate money is one and done.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Come on don't we have any lawyer racers on here? Sportsman video is video footage of racers who paid an entry fee to be there so in turn, shouldn't you need the racer's permission to video instead of sanctioning body? How can it be proven that all who watch the youtube videos aren't watching them for analytic purpose? The videographer (is that a word?) posting the videos is not getting paid by youtube so he is not really doing anything wrong?

We aren't taking precious footage of the full throttle series so go ahead and sell that crap on DVD. Maybe they know my DVR can't keep up with sportsman racing because high school girls lacrosse gets broadcast over half the episode it so I am forced to purchase! Very-well, I'll give you 50 cents for the last 2 minutes of each sportsman broadcast. Send me my dvd!

On the other hand, the "broadcasting services" webpage they posted hasn't been updated since 2006 so I guess they figured they needed a quick new way to make some dough and some eager exec came through.

It's not too late ---> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/n...tsmancoverage/

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

This is not really new. It's been on the back of a spectator ticket for years that any pictures/video shot is the property of the NHRA.

Guy I know who works on a small time fuel team took pictures of Antron losing the wheel a few years ago and posted them on a motorcycle board we are on. NHRA made him take them down and got all the copies of them.

No different than shooting video at a concert or ball game.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I went to a baseball game a few years ago I was shooting some videos. A guard aproached me and said if I didn't stop they would confiscate my camera.
So this is nothing new. Just legal mumbo-jumbo.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Just another dose of NHRA putting a bad taste in the racers mouths...so now we have nothing to look forward to except their crappy website while a race is going on....best part was seeing videos from random folks at the race.....just looked up the NHRA cell phone app....WOW !!!!!!...read the reviews on that one !!!!.....not one good thing to say and some posts are from fans demanding their money back...I for one am enjoying not spending with them more and more....they are so out of touch with their core audience....what more will NHRA do to drive us away.....time will tell !!!!

Ps.....Had a blast at the East Coast Stock/Super Stock Association race last weekend !!!

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

This would include guys like Rob Jackson who does a super job with videos.
To me this is petty considering NHRA does not show any significant "little guy" sportsman classes on TV. Just another example of NHRA's "attitude"

Rob's work : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEJFJ9Btr14&feature=relmfu

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I volunteer at a local street festival and have for 26 years. Through the years some of the entertainers want us to stop the use of video. We have "asked" many of the folks in the crowd to respect the entertainer's wishes and most do. BUT, we were told by our festival managment that we can not stop it because it is in a public arena format, there is no gate or entry as it is all free, therefore all entertainment is free also. We try not to push the issue.

This year we had the Spin Doctors on stage. Very different approach. They ASKED the crowd to film and post all they wanted. They said no one is buying albums so they wanted to expand by word of mouth to more people. Very happy crowd, and very happy workers. Kind of interesting concept. Perhaps we are getting TOO much attention to something they want to kill.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Wouldn't most of us consider that racers use the You Tube videos for "competition/analytical purposes", as opposed to "promote teams, drivers, sponsors and the NHRA Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series"?

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

If NHRA enforces the No Video rule then it will be the down fall of racing , NHRA does absoutely nothing to support the Sportsman racing now > I am confused on why they don't want to have any type of racing to help racing in general . I have never seen any pros on U tube so why are they upset over the video of Sportsman???

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

They don't want sportsman racing promoted, it's not in their interest. That, and they can't make money off of youtube.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I don't need to worry. All of my videos are purely analytical in nature!

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

If you don't race a car. Or you are not even be an NHRA member. How can they stop you from going to a race and recording some vidieo's. I have never signed a waiver when going to watch a race saying that I would not do any recording. They may be able to punish us racers if we record but what can they do to Joe public. And if you post a vidieo how can they prove who posted it on any tube.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Barry, purchasing a ticket is an agreement with NHRA. Read the fine print on that stuff. It does not even have to be in writing on the ticket, it can be posted at the booth, the gate, or online. The courts can force youtube to tell them who posted a video.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

These rules don't target any specific class of racers.

Racing is contested on privately owned property with public access. The property owners can make the rules for what you can or can't do on that property. If you don't agree with the rules, don't enter the property.

When the property owners and/or sanctioning bodies require a license (at a cost) to photograph or video record action at the facility for future use for profit, they should protect those licensed entities from infringement on what they do for a living by those who aren't paying licensing fees. That's why personal use is okay. Mass distribution, even when it is freely available through avenues such as youtube, is not always okay.

There are also other legal issues when there is an accident at the track. Someone uploading a youtube video of an accident that may involve injury or death before actual facts are known and family members can be contacted is unacceptable under any circumstances.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Bob, NHRA's rules about the subject at hand are all about them making money off of everything they can, and about them deciding who gets promoted and how. That's just a simple fact.

Sure, there are concerns about accidents. Yet it is perfectly legal and acceptable to video or photograph at air shows and grass roots races.

This is ALL about money and control for NHRA. They want to maximize their profit, choose who gets promoted, and control all of the exposure they get.

Yes, those are their rules, and we have to live with them if we race with them. That doesn't change the motivation behind the rules.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

You're wrong, Alan.

The very first clause in the ESPN contract guarantees totally, complete and outright exclusivity of all photographic and video content to ESPN/ABC/Capitol Cities/Disney.

This is the way ESPN (and every other network) handles any sporting event.

Although it is ESPN's demand, it's on the shoulders of the host organization to police the rule. Why? Because ESPN demands it. Why are they cracking down now? Because they never really HAVE before except in the case of a fatality, (which was in the interest of NHRA's liability and legal defense).

You might recall the P.A. announcement made at NHRA events for the past decade which, (as at all sporting events with broadcast rights at stake), mentions the phrase), "without the express written permission of the NHRA". Note it does NOT say, "without the express written permission of ESPN". It puts the responsibility squarely on the NHRA, (or NFL, MLB, etc.), because they're liable to the broadcasting network if the contract is violated.

The proliferation of NHRA content via social media has (apparently) gotten to the point at which NHRA must crack down or be sued into oblivion by ESPN. This would explain the NHRA's desire to control all media and they've gone to great lengths to secure it over the past twenty years. One of the first methods used to control it is to charge money; it quickly weeds out the low-ballers onsite for their own entertainment and restricts, (for the most part), all ontrack media to legitimate outlets. Ask the photographers how much it costs to get on the starting line in 2012. Non-ESPN videographers are restricted to pit area interviews only and may not include any results from the event itself until after the race. This is ANYTHING but "new". The NHRA is just cracking down on it.

You folks want NHRA Drag Racing to be treated like a "real sport"? Well, here you go. In this instance, it's the same as baseball, football, soccer and Formula One.

Orme described the situation very eloquently but these are the details. Feel free to call me a defender of the NHRA, a media hack or just a liar. I'll counter with the same response I give to any and all criticism of any drag racing association's rules:

Don't like it? Don't go.

By the way, Don Kennedy mentioned. "I have never seen any Pros on YouTube". The reason for this is NHRA's quite vigilant watch for any and all clips on YouTube, (and everywhere else). B. Parker added, "They may be able to punish us racers if we record but what can they do to Joe public?". The answer is simple. They can do anything and everything they want to do. YouTube works very closely with all companies who have exclusivity rights violated and anybody can be found by any post made anywhere on the 'Web. Folks would be wise to heed the warning; the NHRA's legal counsel has come down on violaters like a ton of bricks in exactly the same fashion as NFL, MLB, etc., (although maybe not as hard as F1; mess with them and it's almost a death sentence). If you only knew the dollars involved in the lawsuits concerning the posting of video and photos of the last runs of Scott Kalitta and Darrell Russell, you'd be stunned.

This isn't a matter of posting a video and having NHRA contact you to take down the video and never contacting you again after it has been removed. This is about swift, serious and incredibly expensive legal action just because the video or photo was posted in the first place.

You can debate the legality, morality or reality of this subject but none of it matters. These are the facts. Now, you can't even claim, "I didn't know!".

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Thank you for clearing that up Brett, my feelings pretty much agreed with everyone posting so far. I can sleep better tonight knowing NHRA is not that ignorant about publicity for sportsman racers. ESPN's stand on this issue is pretty much obvious.

But with that said, I think the door is pretty much wide open for the Stock/Super Stock organizations to pick the ball up and run with it. Here is a video made earlier in the year at the Combo in the Hills race and the format with first round reaction times and et's. OUTSTANDING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPLAPUQNvjA

The fact is, first round of Super Stock at the recent division 1 LODRS race I looked in the stands while under the tower and counted the fans in the stands with both hands… And I put half my fingers down, LOL. The video posted had over 1100 fans (views). If sportsman racing is ever going to grow with publicity, video of non NHRA/LODRS events is the only answer I can see from here forward.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I've never seen ESPN at a divisional so does that mean it's ok to video there?

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Bret, technically, you are "correct". However, all that means is that NHRA sold ESPN the "Pros", and we just got "included" (read:screwed).

NHRA, and by association ESPN, claim that we don't pay our way, and we're a drain on their bottom line. So, evidently, video of us isn't worth anything, and in fact, has a negative monetary value, as it supposedly costs more to shoot the video than it is worth. Not to mention they have absolutely zero intention of ever broadcasting any of it, other than maybe, just maybe, a brief shot of a part of the final round.

So, yeah, it is still all about NHRA, their wallet, and their control. You just cleared up the fact that, technically, NHRA can, and will, make ESPN the "bad guy", and blame any prosecution on their contract with ESPN.

Oh, and ESPN really treats NHRA drag racing like a "real sport". Qualifying is shown at 2AM half the time, and at any time a stick and ball game can, and will, bump even the U.S. Nationals to the wee hours of the morning. Yeah, drag racing sure does get treated like a real sport. :rolleyes: Right up there with curling (I actually like curling).

You can excuse NHRA's greed and avarice all you want, you can blame it on ESPN, and claim it doesn't matter. But it is still fact. You're correct, we don't have to go race. And we probably shouldn't.

By the way, NHRA's problem with videos of the final passes of several unfortunate final passes of racers is that unauthorized video might show their obvious deficiencies. It has nothing at all to do with protecting the families, and everything to do with covering NHRA's *****. If they actually gave a damn about truly protecting the families, rather than their wallet, they'd resolve their obvious safety deficiencies.

You can counter with whatever cute little condescending retort your heart desires Bret. That really doesn't matter, either.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Be careful with your bitching.NHRA might get a bug up their *** and say that no pictures at all may be taken anywhere on the premises.You wouldn't want to see Patsy,Kenny,
Jack or Toby led into a car in handcuffs would you.Like Frey says,especially Jack.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Rule on video Nhra rule "if you wish to shoot video for any use besides competition/analytical purposes, please abide by the following policy:"

so when i post video and state "can you watch this video and tell me why I have tire shake" that will be okay ?

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

here is a question, at maple grove and epping they both had live video streaming of the event, what happens if I copy that and reuse that video?

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I just attended my first Bracket Finals today. This event was run by NHRA and the tension was high. I went to get my usual starting line spot to do some videos at my "home" track and went to the tower to get my clearance, well...in leu of the enforcement the NHRA posted this week the track photographer was not there, another dragstrips team photographer was not allowed on the starting line and was told if they were seen in the stands with there high powered lens they would be escorted out! Pit shots only! I was considering not even videoing today! I just considered it...lol.
This also effected me as a team I was partnering with for the Maple Grove National event was no longer going to do video as a result of this, so more than likely I won't be able to attend this race as planned.
My videos are by no means perfect, however I've really tried to enhance my shooting to the best of my abilities and this year has improved alot, to the point that even the first race I did in Vegas this year I have a hard time watching because it stinks soooo bad! And with the improved editing software and cameras including the GoPro's everyone seems to have there is a lot of really good footage out there. I LOVE the sport of drag racing and really try to promote it from my videos to bringing people to the track that have never attended a race before. I'm not supporting the ESPN/NHRA's decision to what I think is cutting off the backbone of the sport that they don't seem to care about or ever promote, that being said this is STILL their show. Where do they draw the line? Your video isn't that good so your ok...your video is not bad so it's the axe for you!
I'll try to abide by their rules and see what I can and can't do and see if I can afford the kickback they need for their product. Most of my sportsman view count is from the sportsman racers themselves, so if I can't play I will change my page to Robzneed4speed Analytical Videos!
See you at the races.
--Rob

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Ed, when that sort of thing happens, NHRA will wish they had not.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I actually think the posting is more of a CYA on their part.
The problem is that their own will not even know what is right or not so it can have more harm than good. This is because there is no guidance from upper management on this policy for them.

It is unfortunate that the vacuum or abscence of true leadership is affecting them. They are leaving control to Lawyers and Accountants instead of people that love and understand the sport.
The executive leadership is suppossed to take legal guidance, fiscal guidance and input from marketing and their people that are close to the action and have a good feel for what will work at the ground level. This would help themto come up with a common sense approach that serves the good of the Association.

NHRA leadership should seek out the opinions from the talent that lies within their own ranks. They have some great people too. They just don't listen to them. The SRAC is not taken seriously either.
It is pretty clear that no one has the talent or inclination to do this at a high level within NHRA.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Just when i thought a sport couldnt get like nascar, i guess i was wrong. i used to cover nascar when it was fun. then it got to the point were unless you gave them lotsa cash you couldnt be "official nascar media". so i went to the LODRS event this year at NED hoping to get involved in nhra as a photog.. this has sucked the wind outta my sails as far as covering events in the northeast for you guys. bummer

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Rob, YOUR MORE THEN WELCOMED TO THE 2013 RONNIE "Uncle Buck" 90 Nationals and the Thunder in the Mountains Race. No need to file for a pass or pay for anything to come video for the sportsman guys!

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

There are thousands of videos of the pros on youtube.

Well, I don't know the dollars involved in these lawsuits. Could you please tell us or better yet, provide some links?

I did a quick search on youtube and found at least five amateur videos of Scott's crash.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

What a joke.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

I'll bet it's a liability issue(insurance).A while back at an all AMC race at Cecil Co. one of a group of Mid-West racers was videoing the action and caught images of two cars (S/G cars running at the same race) leaving the line.One car T-boned the other about 100' out.The track personnel found out they had the video and went to their trailer wherein a tense situation transpired.They got the evidence and that crew swore they would never come back.And they didn't.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

does this cover the local bracket races at a NHRA track as well?.....

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

How does this work with the Federal-Mogul “Search for a Champion” promotion? They want us to upload a video but we can't use footage of the car at an NHRA race? Are NHRA Sportsmen racers out of this then?

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

And there for a minute I thought any exposure of our sport to the non-racing fan would be good for the sport.

NHRA and their group of whiners should be ashamed of themselves.
The day I cannot post a video of the view from inside my own car on my own account on Youtube, so others can analyze how to "fix" my car.......well, I guess the Liberals will have finally won control of the Internet too!

They cannot begin to fill the stands or grow the sport....so...let's not let anyone watch something that might peak their interest in drag racing and lead them to the pit gate or the spectator gate at a local strip and then maybe to a National event.

How can anyone be so short-sighted. The NFL, MLB, etc is different.....people actually pay to watch those games in huge numbers and the even isn't spread out over four days. Don't confuse major sports with NHRA drag racing it is not comparable in a manner. Netwroks bid for the rights to braodcast those events...I would imagine NHRA is buying their time slots...

This is so ridiculous...........maybe it is time for me to just sit back and watch it self-destruct...of course I will be filming it ;-). If the bleachers stay as empty as they have been at recent National Events....shouldn't be long.

Jok, HD Hero2 amatuer video producer...analytical videoing for the properity of the sport.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

That's what I thought.Isn't ESPN getting paid to broadcast drag racing? If it were to ever get the other way and the major networks were "bidding" on the rights,then Drag Racing would really hit the big time.

Unfortunately,it will probably never come to that due to lack of promotion,especially the Sportsman classes.Having the well known "Professional"drivers racing in Stock is certainly helping though.

If John Force decided to race a Stocker then maybe Fox,NBC,CBS,would be interested in covering this?

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Question........So WHY do you continue to go to NHRA events? There are many other venues to play with your toys. Im not being sarcastic just really courious as to why do you put up with the BS.

Re: Video at NHRA events
 

Don't know if this is directed at me personally,but I do enjoy the NHRA events.

I don't totally understand their video policy,but that is certainly nothing new.

I used to support IHRA,but it is beyond me how an organization can be called INTERNATIONAL and not even have more than a couple of events within several hundred miles of Chicago?

I stayed at a hotel in Columbus,Ohio this past weekend and there was a sign that said 50% of the population of the United States lives within 500 miles of Columbus,Ohio.

If this is true,you would think an organization called the INTERNATIONAL Hot Rod Association would conduct several big events within this area.I guess not.