Points for Qualifying and Records
After talking to many people in the pits, I'm hard pressed to find people who disagree that points should be awarded for qualifying position and records. Stock and Super Stock are performance-based classes after all. How about some incentive to "let it all hang out"? How about some incentive to set a record and have it torn apart?
I'm not talking about someone winning a division because they have a fast car but how about 10 points for #1 qualifier, 5 for #2, and 3 for #3. How about we set the record "minimum" to .75 under and award 10 points per record? I'm sure some rules would have to be in the place like you can't reset your own record within the year. Ultimately, I think giving people an incentive to be #1 or #2 qualifier will help the AHFS do it job more efficiently. I don't think either is unrealistic and they give people a real reason to put the car on kill and see if they can put it on the top spot. Also, I'm sure the record books would start to fill up again. Any thoughts? Suggestions? |
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I think any real recognition for setting records is a positive. Heck, they could cough up a wally for it right? There is not much incentive for it now. I like having at least some points consideration for this as well.
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I just posted a little earlier today on another thread that almost all ideas on here never go anywhere. This is because you can't get two people must less a group of people to agree on anything related to class racing. Well I actually think this is one that could get some traction. Everyone(not 5 or 10 racers) but everyone needs to express this to NHRA by calling,emailing,writing etc. Our division reps could bring this up also and see what help they could offer with this. I'm not fast but I still think this is a great idea. Hope it gets some traction and goes somewhere. I just looked and the records page is dwindling as we speak GT/B through GT/J is empty.
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Mike, I posted several times a while back on the same subject. My suggestions were for qualifying 20 points for number one, subtract two points per position through 5th, and one for each down to tenth. Pay 20 points for setting the record, but you can't rest your own record for points. I think they should contest class everywhere and pay 20 per round where you beat an opponent in your class, and 5 per round if you run in the combo.
You'd still have to go plenty of rounds in the eliminations to win a championship but it would make performance more important. |
Re: Points for Qualifying and Records
IHRA used to award (5) points for a Record up to twice per year. It was a deciding factor in one or more championships. It was eventually dropped. We used to set our two records every year for the points and the press. Enough people did it that it made sure that many had gone through teardown at some point or another through the season. I'm not sure where records are listed currently.
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I see points for records being too complicated. I can see it working with qualifying, I think it's a great idea. Points chasing would be a little more interesting. It would be cool to see some of the better drivers in quicker cars.
I'd like to hear some of the points chasers point of view. As much as I'd like to be in that position, I'm not one of them. |
Re: Points for Qualifying and Records
Just like Alan, I've been sayin' this for some time. Points for records (why should there be a limit? If I want to set a record in 3 classes, so what?), points for qualifying with #1 qualifying weighed a little more heavily than the other positions.
Absolutely, I would love to see a championship determined by these points. It's a performance class! Not only would it possibly encourage less throttle stops, it just might encourage more event participation. Somebody with a top qualifier / record setter that might not normally travel may be encouraged with his points to gain more by hitting more races. And no to records being .75 under. Keep it as is, .50 under. Enough people start chasing records and you wont see too many records at minimum anyways. Record in D/S is 10.35. It takes 1.16 under and AHFS to take it. I'm game. Waiting on new tooling for AMC tool steel lifters so we can final assemble the engine.... |
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If I`m not mistaken,points did used to be awarded for National Records in NHRA. I do recall this was in the 80`s at least. Nothing since I got into Stock in `92..
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I don't think points for records would be too complicated. You'd need about 4 rules. (Feel free to point out anything you think I may have overlooked)
20 points for setting a national record. No points for re-setting your own record. Maximum of records in 3 classes per driver per year. Records in only one car/engine combination per year. With those rules, you get points for records, but you can't "game" the system by continually bumping the record by small amounts. You also can't switch cars/combinations and set a lot of records. So it would work like this: Driver X has a 1969 xxxx with a xxx/xxx engine, and an automatic transmission, for Stock Eliminator in 2013. It is a natural "A" car, so it can run "B" and "CC". So, driver X can set the record in CC/SA, A/SA, and B/SA, in the same car with the same combination. That lets driver X earn 60 points. If no one else sets any of those three records, driver X can only collect 60 points for setting records. If driver Y takes the A/SA record from driver X, then driver X can try to set the A/SA record again, if he succeeds, he earns another 20 points. Now, even if driver X sells his 1969 xxxx, and gets another car, or gets a ride in another car, he can only set records in CC/SA, A/SA, and B/SA. And he cannot reset his own records in the new car. So driver X can't get out of the 1969 xxxx, or swap engines or transmissions, then go set records in F/SA, G/SA, and H/SA, or any other class to gain points. That prevents anyone from spending money to buy more cars or get rides in more cars to set records. And really, 20 points is not a lot of points for the effort and expense of setting a record, it is about the same as winning a round. Honestly, a record should be worth more than 20 points. But you have to be careful that 2-3 guys don't get in a little contest, since in theory those 2-3 guys could earn a lot of points bumping the record 0.05 taking it from each other, and making a record worth a lot of points could do that. In theory, if a record started out at 0.8 under, between 100 and 160 points could be paid for records before anyone even got instant HP. You'd get the record set 6-8 times in that scenario, at 20 points each time. Even making it pay 40-50 points to set the record, if two guys set it 6 times, that's 240-300 points each. As much as I'd like to see it pay 40 points for a record, 40 points for #1 qualifier, and 40 points a round to win class, that's probably swinging the pendulum too far the other way. |
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If I remember correctly the top 16 qualifiers received points at nat'ls back in the 80's. Could not find anything for sure, but I seem to recall that. Old age creeps in.
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This would penalize racers who do not race a "bogus" combination.
Also, this would drive away racers who do not have the money to continually spend on their car chasing the latest/great trick to be competitive while trying to win a division or world championship. Kinda silly if you ask me. |
Re: Points for Qualifying and Records
I'd be for it. One wrinkle to this could be class at Indy. If you win class there, 50 points for winning class with 10 or more cars, 40 for 6 to 10 cars and 20 for 3 to 6 and 10 for 2 cars.
Even though it will not happen, this could be a real motivator for winning class and putting some excitement for the performance driven guy. Not the paycheck lift at a 1000 ft mercenaries that have sort of ruled our sport for awhile now. I still think combining the sticks and auto's for eleminations could be a cool thing as well. I think you have to be a stick guy to want that |
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Never was complicated. We used to get 200 points (100 points per round back then) for ET records, 100 for re-setting your own ET record, and 100 points for a MPH record. Now, of course, that would be 20 & 10, right?
I agree with qualifying points. Ten for #1 down to one for #10. No big deal. |
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Tracy |
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A few points for records is a great idea, but there needs to be some sort of limit so people don't go around borrowing cars to set records in different classes.
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Let's say I've got a 2012 whatever and can qualify on the pole at every race. I can set the record a couple of times during the year. You've got a 1970 whatever and you qualify mid-pack every race and aren't fast enough to set any records. We both go the same amounts of rounds during the racing season. Who wins the Championship when points are awarded for qualifying and records? |
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Limit drivers to record points 2 times a year, unless his car is refactored and he resets it with the same car combination . Very easy
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Sounds like its time to build a better car, or become a better driver!
The statement that alot of people like to use " It's all just a bracket race" would change fast. Quote:
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I really like the idea. You need to be careful how many points are awarded for qualifying. Lets face it it's not an even playing field out there. It would be nice if the AHFS would raise the 85 under average. There aren't many cars out there that can't run faster than that on an average. Barry
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I think that is a great idea.
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I like it !!!!!!! |
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Here is another problem with the record idea, but I have a solution. Since car counts in Division 1 are so high, they give you a limited amount of chances to actually set a record compared to other divisions. Each divisional director has there own view on how records should be set, and trust me Division 1 is the hardest by far. Solution: Let anyone set a record at any time, its simple. |
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Based on Fred Johnston's logic, we should basically get rid of all performance in the class and make it a bracket race. According to Fred's logic, we should probably get rid of heads up runs completely.
There are a few guys, especially on the west coast who run "maxed out" 69 Camaros 396/375 and can put in on the poll at just about any race that they want to. Ultimately, I believe a points system for qualifying (and records) will help the AHFS work more quickly. |
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Barton has the right answer.
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Who the **** is Fred Johnson?Oh he's the no name no car owning/driving instigator who slides out from under his rock to annoy S/SS racers.
It would be nice to see performance back in the eliminator.If I was still active I wouldn't have a problem with the proposed system.My car wasn't competitive in class anyway.That didn't affect me in the eliminator.It might have a bit of an impact in the upper classes.But some things just aren't for the masses. |
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David, don't read the explanation, all you need to read is the four rules which are not complicated. 20 points for setting a national record. No points for re-setting your own record. Maximum of records in 3 classes per driver per year. Records in only one car/engine combination per year. Four simple one sentence rules, no wiggle room, no problems. Any one sentence rule in the rule book can have a paragraph or more of clarification behind it, if someone asks for clarification. |
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I think some guys are taking the idea to the extreme but it seems most of us are in agreement that this is a good idea. What would have to be done for implementation? Does NHRA actually care?
This is what I was thinking. Qualifications #1 10 points #2 5 points #3 3 points #4 2 points #5 1 point Records Record Set 10 points - Can't set the same record more than twice in a year - Record must be .75 under the index or greater I think that's pretty simple and a fair place to start. |
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LOOK UP TOOL in the dictionary, SEE Fred Johnston, In his world the basket at a basket ball game would be lowered to 6ft and you would use a softball, he has never had a positive POST!!! and he will pick on old cars too. And nobody seems to no if he has a race car?, Did i miss anything.
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This sounds like a good plan. I would have incentive to put an "R" on the window and run some of my old heaps hard. There is no way the whining clan will let any more emphasis put on performance even though it is a performance based class.
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