Generator Questions
 

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Excellant idea-- I'm sure many racers have questions regarding "situations" with their Onan as well as maybe troubleshooting other makes as well.
Those situations might range from how to winterize a generator to heavy repairs like replacing engines or rotors/armatures etc., routine maintainence questions and the like...

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Matt: Since you are probley enjoying the nice weather at Maple Grove I have a quick question to break up all the excitement. Recently bought a very clean used Vintage trailer with a Honda EV6010 gen-set. (600 hours) Seems to have be well maintained and runs perfect. Question is; seems when I check reviews people either love them or hate them?? What do you think? We run our gens alot and always had excellent luck with our previous old green onan. Should I consider something else. We have a normal LQ trailer with 2 13500 roof air's The Negitive reviews seem always be reliablity and cost issues in the generator repair or the engine cooling system repairs. Thanks Bill

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Thanks for your question.

We don't have a tremendous amount of experience with the Honda rv units. I've worked on a few and like all hondas, the quality is exceptional. This unit is liquid cooled and runs at 3600 rpm. It's a twin cylinder so I would expect this unit to have a 4,000 plus hour life expectancy before major work is required. Like all machinery, preventive maintenance is so important to it's lifespan.

If you have doubts about the machines ability to serve your needs I would recommend you carry a small spare generator. Something big enough to keep your batteries charged and lights on, say 2000 watts.

If you'd like to talk more about your generator options email me at matts@rjcontrol.com

Matt

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Matt, I have an Onan/Cummins Quiet 4000 generator in my MH. What is the realistic oil change interval (no oil filter) and is synthetic oil OK? Thanks in advance. Jim


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Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Thanks for your question Jim!

I get many questions about oil change intervals and also the type of oil recommended.

On your particular model, the MicroQuiet 4000, the factory says, change the oil at 150 hours, more or less depending on the conditions of use.
Hot ambient conditions and heavy loads, all will require more frequent changes. An RV that is not used much, would only see maybe 30 hours per year, so the factory says, change it annually in that case.

Realistically, in my opinion, 100 hours is a good interval mark. After all, that unit runs at 3600 RPM, is a single cylinder machine, and if we made a comparison between this machine's 100 hours of operation and mileage, we would probably arrive around 4000 miles. So, given that it's just one and a half quarts, I say....do it, do it frequently....

On the subject of what type of oil to use, the factory recommends 15-40 weight oil between 10 and 100 degrees of ambient temperature. In my opinion, Shell Rotella T 15/40 is an excellent choice, reasonably priced and will provide heavy duty protection. That being said, all synthetic oils of good quality names I'm sure will provide excellent protection however I will caution you to observe the weight ratings and don't use anything light such as 5/30 unless you are operating the machine in frigid conditions (below 40 degrees).

Hope that helps you, you can always reach me directly at Matts@RJControl.com

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Not hijacking the oil change ??? thread but with the older Onans is there anyway to retrofit them with a oil filter??? Thanx Dick Ulrich

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

To the best of my knowledge the machines that Onan produced with oil filters have an oil pump and a pressure fed oil system.

The machines that were produced without an oil filter utilize "splash" oil design, they have no oil pump. The connecting rods actually employ a wing on it to bring the oil up and direct the oil to where it needs to be.

An oil filter would not function in this system, because there is no pump.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

thats what I was thinking just thought I'd ask cuz those older gens come up for sale in my area pretty often and usually are very cheap--thanx for the reply---FED387

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I'd just like to say thank you to Matt and Rich.
They just recently refurbished my Onan 7500 Quiet Diesel generator for my coach, and the price and service was outstanding.
They installed a new inverter section and replaced all the hoses and the belt,and a whole lot more for a fraction of what a new generator would have cost.
I highly recomend R&J Controls to anyone needing to have their gen repaired or to buy a new unit.
Thanks guys!

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Looking for input regarding Martin Diesel and Next Gen diesel generators? Pros and cons for both would be appreciated. They are going to be used in an ambulance as a back up power source to an inverter. We are currently using Martin Diesel and our ambulance builder is recommending Next Gen for some new ambulances we are having built. Thanks in advance.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Joe I am not familiar with either brand name generator you mentioned. So I could not give you any info on one....

Onan is by far the most common generator we get in for service or see for repairs.

I have worked on many of them that were installed in emergency response type vehicles. Diesels usually....

We have occasionally seen PowerTechs and I have worked on quite a few of those as well.

Tom thanks for the recommendation. See you soon.....Rich

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Cummins Onan RV QD 10000
Is there anywhere I could find out how much fuel they should be using? And how many hours should they be run before servicing (oil, filters ect)?
Thanks

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Oil and filter is 250 hours, fuel and air filters at 500 hrs.
My experience is that might be a bit too much, I go 200 and 400 respectively.

Fuel consumption will vary depending on how much load is on the engine, so the factory guide lists this:

No load = .11 GPH (gallons per hour)
1/2 load = .48 GPH
Full load = 1.01 GPH

Hope that helps....

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Thank You.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I am using way more than that. I have been watching it since you gave me this info and checking every race to see what it is using. Basically what I have been doing is carrying fuel with me and filling the totor up at the track (it runs off one of the truck tanks) before starting the generator and then filling it again when I am done. The last 2 Saturday nights the generator ran from around 5PM to 11 PM. The biggest load all night was when I had the battery charger, weather station, and 1 fluorescent light over the bench in the trailer running. Nothing on in the toter, not even the refridgerator. Most of the time the battery charger only runs for less than 10 min between runs while I have the fans and pump running to cool the car. In 6 hours it burned right at 10 gallons the first night and almost 11 last Saturday night. I thought maybe I had a stuck injector or something so I did oil analysis to see if there was fuel in the oil and everything came back OK. It does not seem to smoke other then very briefly when first started. And runs great just uses a lot of fuel. Any ideas or should I just not worry about it. Thanks for your help.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Rob,
Does the generator sound like it has a load on it? Do you have access to a amp meter to measure the load at each circuit breaker? It sounds like there is a load on it from something else, other than what you have described. You could turn off circuit breakers one at a time and listen for the generator to unload, if something is drawing from it. I can run my A/C and everything in the trailer for close to 20hrs continuously on 15 gallons. I have a Onan Marquis Gold 7500.

Good Luck
Sean

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I will try shutting off circuit breakers and see what happens. I got a meter and will try that too. I figured it was just a fuel pig untill I started talking to another guy with the same generator. Does not seem to act like its under load but if its had a problem since new maybe I just never noticed and thought it sounded normal. Thanks for the help.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Rob,
Have you had any luck with the generator? A few weeks ago I measured what mine burned in one day. This was with A/C running, fans, computers, tv, battery charger and 110 vac pump and chiller running for 8 hrs straight. 7 gallons. It surprised me that it did not use more fuel than that.

Sean

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

We just purchased our first RV; also have never owned a generator. The motorhome is a 2007 Jayco Greyhawk 31SS with an Onan 4000. The generator has 800 hours on it but the RV only had 9,000 miles. Upon delivery (when we got home) even though we tested everything the generator would start fine, run for 5 minutes, and then die. The dealership put a new carburetor AND fuel pump on it at no charge to us. Seems to run perfectly now.

We plan, of course, to change oil regularly and use it a little more (I've read it's bad to let them sit) but my question is how many hours can I expect out of this generator before it needs replaced or major service?

Thanks.

Wendy & Scott

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Congrats on your RV purchase, I hope it treats you well!

The Onan microquiet 4.0KY genset is very durable. With proper care and maintenance it should last around 5,000 hours! I use the same model in my trailer and its been very reliable. It requires some routine maintenance, but nothing crazy. Your owners manual has excellent schedules for maintenance, I recommend you take a look at them.

On my machine, I change the oil every 100-150 hours, there is no oil filter. Change the air filter as needed, probably once per season. Change the spark plug once per season as well as the fuel filter, which is located on the fuel pump inlet fitting. I also check the valve lash and adjust it once per year. I average about 500 hours per race season on the machine.

Good luck to you :)

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Thank you Matt! :D

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I have not been out for the last 2 weeks because I hurt my back pretty bad and I am try to take some time off to let it heal. In hopes that I can finish the season and have surgery over the winter.

But before that happened
I checked and there is only a couple of amps running when its just sitting there with nothing on. I think that is from the microwave,tv, dvr ect. standby and memory and maybe the inveter deal that charges the batteries when the generator is running.. Its only a few amps so I dont think that is the problem. Other than that the only thing I noticed recently is that once its started it takes about a minute before it starts putting out voltage. That might be normal too but I never noticed it before. Still using about the same amount of fuel though. I also sent out another oil sample on it and it came back OK. They said I could go alot longer between changes but oil is alot cheaper than a new generator so I am going to stay safe and keep doing what I have been as far as intervals go.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Rob......Your generator produces AC voltage right away.....If it didn't it would shut down and light a fault code.
Onans pretty much all do that. No output.....shutdown.

The time delay you are seeing is likely due to your ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch). It sends the AC power from either your generator or a land line to your M-H......and many have a time delay built into them before it makes the connection....Lets the generator start and run for a bit to stabilize before connecting. The time delay on some can be switched off with a dip switch.

It is always a good idea to turn off higher load items before shutting off the generator. This is also why the time delay is a good idea.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Funny you should post this. After I posted earlier I went out and got all the books for the Toter-home and started reading. You are exactly right that's what it is. I usually get to the track and walk back and hit the switch for the batteries and then start the generator. Then I go out and setup and unload the trailer then come back in and do the stuff for the truck. So I guess I never noticed it untill we started trying to find out whats up with the fuel consumption and I was standing there waiting on it. Just goes to show reading the owners manual can save problems. LOL

Rich you got any ideas on my fuel consumption problem. Its not the end of the world but I would like to figure it out if possible especially with the price of diesel being what it is.
Thanks again

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Rob I do not have any ideas why your generator would use more fuel than what is listed in the manual.

I am guessing it is a fixed speed model and has a Kubota engine.

They do also use Isuzu's in some models....both are good engines and very reliable,,,

I would have to look at the Service Manual or parts manual for some info on the injection pump and how it is controlled vs the load on the engine....

I have never really tested one for fuel usage and never really saw one with oil dilution from diesel fuel either.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

my neighbor has a Kohler RV generator for sale thinking about buying it---they are upgrading to a larger one its a model 4.5 CKM21-RV--- any thing I should know about them it starts/ runs/ puts out electric---Any comments please---Thanx FED387

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I have not worked on Kohler RV generators often.
I have no specific information about the model you are talking about...

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

thanx for your reply--FED387

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Hi, I have a good one. 2002 Journey DL with a Onan 7500 Quiet Diesel. A few months ago it quit while running normally. I tried to restart but would just try to run against he starter. I changed out the fuel filter not knowing when it was last done and it started ran fine.
Fast forward to last week. I was giving it some routine exercise at the shop. Ran it for about an hour. Once again it quit while running nomally. Tried to restart, same syptoms. Just for giggles I changed the fuel filter. It tried to run against the starter but that was it. I packed it in for the day.
As you know when you first push to start the fuel pump runs momentarily then the starter engages. Now the pump clicks once and a second fainter click is heard under the dash and that is it. No roll over. I checked the codes. First is a 3. Second level is a 17 to which is not in my manual.
A few questions. Any idea as to what is going on? It looks to me like the gen has to come out through the bottom of the coach for any type of in depth service. Am I right?
And lastly how much of a PITA is that job? Thank you for your time. I do appreciate it. Holgar

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I have been battling a 10 K Onan generator that will run all day at times then slowly shut down every 30 minutes at night. The code it generates is 36.

I put a new fuel filter, air filter, checked all tubing for plastic bags and changed the oil and filter. The engine is the Isuzu. The only thing I can say that may help is the fuel pump return line stops pulsing when the engine was about to die. When I pushed the return line over to the side to restrict it the engine sprang back to life.

I think the fuel pump isn't pumping or the board isn't telling the pump to continue pumping. I will replace the pump this week but do you have any other ideas? Slate Cummings was having the exact same problem this week but he replaced the pump and it still slowly dies every 30 minutes.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Good Morning.

The last two posts require different responses, which will both lead in similar directions. So bear with me, this stuff is work....lol

First, NHRA1285, your code 17 is a fuel pump fault code, which is trigger by the controller unable to sense the electric pump. This is a bypassable fault, which means it can be reset and ignored, but that information is pretty much useless if the machine won't run. When the control doesn't "see" the fuel pump in the circuit, it won't allow the engine to crank, it just drops right into a fault 17, so the fuel pump and wiring needs to be tested.

Your unit is installed without regard for making this type of repair within the confines of a Class A motorcoach. Without seeing the installation I can't say for sure but I'm fairly certain it will have to come out to chase this problem down. It's a big pain and yes, it will probably come out the bottom of the coach. We use a forklift and a great deal of cursing. Give me a call to discuss, I think I can help you more over the phone with some of the details. 800-821-5973

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Don,

Your problem is becoming fairly common for us to see. Replacing the fuel pump is a good place to start, we do some bench testing of the pump to confirm failures but changing it out in the field serves a good purpose. Sometimes it's just a bad fuel pump that goes intermittent.

In some other instances we've seen issues stemming from too much current on the pins of the ECM providing power to the fuel pump. Sometimes the only way to fix it is to replace the ECM AND the pin connection supplying the positive pump signal. That pin can be inspected carefully, if it shows signs of gray/overheat, the problem is identified. We then cut out that wire in the ECM harness and replace it, giving you a nice new connection as well as replacing the ECM, (which gives you a new pin contact)

If you supply me with the model and spec number, I'm certain I can provide you with some diagrams and tech support. 800-821-5973

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I have a 02 fleeetwood rv onan quiet diesel 7500. The manual says it should have the belt replaced at 1500 hrs. Is this something I can do like other routine maintenance? You guys are providing a great service, thank you.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

The belt on most of those QD 7500's is the water pump drive belt. It has no adjustment. The sheet metal covers need to be removed and in motorhomes that often means the unit has to come out. Since there is no adjustment.....the water pump pulley must be removed to remove and replace the belt. The fit has to be reasonably tight so the right belt is important. The belts crack and if it is not changed could break and the unit will obviously overheat. I usually change the t-stat and temp sensor at the same time. Deposits build up on the sensor and they can cause poor cold starts and random shutdowns. The sensor signals the controller by way of an ohm reading what the coolant temp is and this controls the glow plug operation....If the unit is cold....the glow plugs are powered before cranking.If it is warm they do not energize.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I have a Onan Marquis 5500, model # 5.5BGMFA26105H.
Do not know the hours on it and it runs good .Unit is at least 13yrs old.
I recently had to replace the fuel pump.
The only issue I have is it seems to get lugged down when I turn the AC on, has a 13500 roof air unit on trailer.
Is there anything that needs to be done to the generator part as far as routine maintenance goes? All I have is a 5 gal hot water heater and microwave besides the ac.

Thanks for the help
Mark Lewis

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

Mark......Those older Onans run well and should easily run your AC and other items at the same time. The rated output on a 5500 is about 45 amps at 120 volts. An ac unit probably draws no more than 15 amps and a microwave maybe 10, Hot water heater I would guess another 10 tops so you are well within the generators capability.

The older Onans were flathead engines. 1800rpm. They tend to carbon up heavily inside the cylinder heads and intake ports. The rear intake port often is much worse with that carbon buildup. The engine supplies the power to spin the rotor of the generator. The magnetic field created as load increases is the load the engine sees. So if the engine is weak it cannot "carry the load" of the magnetic field in the generator. There is basically nothing in the generator end to service other than the brushes. They are either good or bad and if they are bad you will not have any AC output and the unit will likely not stay running due to loss of AC output.

The first thing to do is make sure the std tune-up items are good and if the machine has a lot of hours on it......a heads off carbon cleaning might be what it needs. Valve lash is also a big factor that causes them to run weak. Exhaust valves get tight, not enough lash and once the engine is hot they run poorly from improper valve seating. lash is .005 Intake and .013 exhaust cold.

I remove the heads......remove the manifolds.....clean the carbon in the heads and ports and the backs of the valves. Adjust the valve lash and reassemble it.......Carb has to be good.....Governor arm and all adjustments set carefully under load for best operation. I use a resistive load bank on all the units I service and repair. Everyone gets tested and adjusted with no load and right up to full rated load. Carbs are very sensitive on mixture and governor arm adjustments.....

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

I have the chance to purchase a Onan Emerald 1 Genset 4Kw rv generator and was wondering your thoughts on this model? This would go into our race trailer.

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

They were good units.....but that would be a pretty old unit. They have not made that design for over 10 years. Did it have an hour meter attached to it ? It's always helpful to know the amount of usage on a machine of that vintage. An hour meter is the closest thing to an odometer.

I would not buy one unless it looked to be well cared for and could be tested. It is very easy to run one even if it is not installed in anything.

Add a battery and a gas can and run it and check the output voltage. I run every unit I work on....on a bench and it gets load tested with a resistive load bank to full rated load.....It's a lot of work to install one in a trailer or M-H so it should be confirmed as good before doing an install....

Re: Generator Questions and Answers, by R&J Control Inc
 

The hour meter has 232 hrs on it and the unit does look to be in good condition. What is the noise decibel on one of these units? There are asking $500 for the unit.
Thanks