If you like guns
 

There is word that we should be ready to register them soon. Hilary Clinton is to sign a "treaty" end of this month which is to help register ALL guns in the world. This is said to help with gun control. It is a treaty so it supercedes the Right to own a gun. Just for information without political intent.

Re: If you like guns
 

Sounds like Canada ! This came on pretty fast some people will be ---Trevor

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Eddie, It was commented on TV report that Treaty trumps Constitution in this case. I do not know for sure personally

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Dick, I think we all need to keep our ear close to the ground on this one. Reid vs Covert may offer some background with regards to treaties and the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_v._Covert

Re: If you like guns
 

Unless the treaty allows a search of every house in America, no guns will be confiscated ! It will take a firefight to get mine!

JimR

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Let's hope you are correct on this! Jim


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No treaty can be signed by the president unless the Senate approves it by a 2/3 vote. So we all can keep our firearms.

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Hiliary is to be the signing person. Eddie is right about the Reid case stating Constitution over treaty comment. Thanks.

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From what I understand after a meeting today.
The treaty trumps the Constitution.

This two days after an executive order to control the internet in the case of a national emergency.

To me these two are related.

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Bill, how ever told you this has given you some false informatiion. The supreme court in 1954 in the case "Reid v. Covert" that the Bill of Rights and constitution cannot be abrogated by agreements with foreign powers.

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I wonder that if the Bill of Rights and the Constitution can not be abrogated by agreements with foreign powers, why is this administration even discussing or considering this? From what I have read, the administration is all ready to sign off on it! Can he do it by Executive Order as he loves to do when he can't get things past Congress? Jim


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No treaty maybe entered into our govt, without the congress approving it by a 2/3 vote and no treaty maybe entered into by executive order.

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I hope you are correct! I am very lacking in knowledge of the Constitution I am sad to say. Jim:rolleyes:


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Probably to try to limit information as we are approaching a crisis.

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What crisis are you referring to?

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All you knowlegeable people. Should look into the Vienna Convention (we are already bound by this). If this treaty is signed.

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But if it is not renounced or voted down we are required to follow it.
Vienna Convention.

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If you don't watch anything else this year, you need to watch this! If you think it can't be done then you are a fool! This video is 20 minutes long but when it is done you will not believe what you saw. Everything is fact based and proven in the video. With one command you could lose your second amendment rights, your guns and possibly your life and freedom. Please watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyfkQ...ature=youtu.be


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Re: If you like guns
 

I'm sorry Jim, but this guy is full of *****. The document he is misrepresenting was penned at the height of the cold war and never implemented. The document was written to draw Armies down to an equal level on the pretense that it would help avoid war and have the UN or a third party verify.

No where, that I could see, did the document designate civilian weapons but my computer would not down load the whole article so I could be wrong but how are "they" going to get our guns? I ain't giving them mine!

With the millions of weapons in the hands of citizens there would be no way to even find them all much less take them. If it were to actually happen do you think all us rednecks would give them out guns?....pried out of my cold dead hands!

JimR

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Art that is not true, no international law or treatiy can trump the US Constitution, that court case I posted was directly on that point.

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Did any of you see the whole thing? The New Orleans video or the radio interview with the Army soldier who helped confiscate guns in the middle of the night? Wake up. If the lowly N.O. mayor can make law what makes you think someone higher up can't do the same thing for the whole country? You don't think it can happen here? Ask the citizens of Australia. Wake up! Jim


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Here's the link for the Department of State publication 7277:

www.dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/arms/freedom_war.html

If the link doesn't work just google the top line.

In short the document is about nuclear disarmament and the drawing down of Armies and weapons, there is NO mention of civilian weapons, it's a classic example of picking out only the parts of sentences you want and out of text to inflame your believers.

As for the rest of the video my computer would take about 3 hours to download so I can only comment on the total misuse of the document listed above.

JimR

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Since when did the two most sacred documents on the face of the earth shy of the Bible mean a thing to these persons in charge now?

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http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/ins...s/1_1_1969.pdf

Here is how it works.
Check out the Vienna Convention. We already are party to that. This was signed and ratified in 1969 after the 1954 court case.
If the treaty is signed, it goes to congress (senate) and the president for ratification.
It is in effect till congress votes it down (1/3 of the senate can vote it down). Or the president renounces it. There are over 50 senators that have already stated they will vote against it.
But. Have you heard of a pocket veto? It never gets to a full senate vote. It would then be in force till the senate voted on it or the president renounces it.
Those are the facts.
You say they can't do this or that. Do you remember reading about the Japanese interment camps. These people were American citizens not foreign nationals.

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[Removed]

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Goin broke pm sent.

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Let's put this in real simple terms: unless Congress uses a 2/3 majority , it will not become law. With regards to Congress trumping the 2nd Amendment.......they will never make it to their cars.

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Eddie you are wrong with regards to the law on this matter.
Congress has already ratified the treaty that states that when a treaty is signed it is binding till the senate tosses it or the president denounces it.
It all makes sense and should be easy. But if there is a pocket-veto. We have to follow the treaty until it is rejected.
There are already 58 senators that are voting against it.
So why even sign it?

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The whole treaty is to prevent countries from selling guns to other countries that have gross violations of human rights. Regardless of what regulations other countries agree to, the treaty only becomes law in the U.S. if it gets a two-thirds majority in the Senate.

And last month, more than 50 senators signed on to a letter to Secretary of State Clinton saying that they will not vote for any treaty that restricts civilian arms.

The NRA is confident that the treaty will not be ratified in the U.S.

The U.N. can pass it if they want it," NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam told FoxNews.com. But for it to have domestic effect, it needs to pass us senate by a two-thirds vote -- and clearly that will not happen in this make up of the U.S. senate, regardless of what the administration does.

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If this is the case why is the US signing it?

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Art, Maybe this will give you a little more insight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty

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For arguments sake let's say that somehow the UN gets the right to confiscate all the guns in the U.S. How many UN peace keepers will it take to go house to house to confiscate our guns: 100,000; 250,000; etc?

Let's say a million. Where will they get the men? Per treaty they use Military from other countries for peace keeping duties, do you think other nations will gut their military for such a purpose ? Lets say they get their million, how long do you think it will take those men to cover every house in the US? Our major metropolitan cities have as many as 13 million people in them then we have farmers and ranchers living well out of town sometimes in places that could easily be missed.

Who's going to feed these million men, where do they get their transportation, who cleans their uniforms, medical care, gas, tires, vehicle maintenance, transportation of millions of tons of confiscated weapons ( to where?), how do they destroy them, how many will it take just to do the research to find who has guns, etc?

When I was in the 2nd Armored Division at Ft. Hood, TX we took the entire division (approximately 25,000 soldiers and their vehicles) to the field for a month long exercise, at the end of the month when I brought my Company back to the Garrison they were still trying to get all the Division's supplies to the field. Working night and day for 30 days we had only moved 1/3 of the Division's supplies to the field (approximately 6 miles), how the Hell could you do it with one million over 2 thousand miles?

For those of you that will say that we would use our own military, National Guard, police, etc. you must remember that those people are the major owners of home weapons and will most probably not gives up their weapons much less look for ours!

How many peace keepers will they lose when they encounter street gangs, motorcycle gangs (Hells Angels, etc.) and civilians that fight for their guns (me and Jim Wahl). When that happens how long would it be before that country would pull it's troops out to avoid any more deaths?

Nope, my guns are safe simply because of the logistics of such an undertaking and because no Senator is stupid enough to go against the armed citizens of this country.

JimR

PS can you imagine being a foreign soldier going into Dallas/Ft. Worth and trying to get citizens guns?

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That would be interesting.

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"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

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Jim you are missing the point. No un soldier or cop is going to kick your door in. This thing is very subtle. It will start with all guns of any kind being registered. Some states have that already. Then you will have to prove how and when you use them individually. They will make you turn in the excess (you won't need 20 guns to hunt for a deer etc.) Then little by little they will ban certain types of guns.(you don't need a Judge pistol to shoot targets.) Then there won't be that many legal guns, first they will tax the hell out of them then they will take the rest away. They will do this under the guise of complying with the un.
Anyone on here the fishes in saltwater will know about regulation creep. They start off with a bag and size limit everyone can live with. Then they reduce the numbers till you can't keep any.

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Art, Without starting a fire-storm, where are your getting this information?

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An amazing thing called "common sense"
Nobody needs an assault rifle to hunt or shoot targets. I could care less if they banned them and stopped right there.
But if they get their foot in the door they will creep into every gun.
Why would they go through the bother of signing that treaty, knowing the Senate will kill it?
Answer me that one?

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Interms of the domestic use of the treaty in the United States, the United Nations cannot regulate what is done in any particular state’s borders, ATT would have no effect on Second Amendment rights, as it is meant to protect against international gun trade.

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There are provisions in the treaty to document all guns.
If she signs it our only hope is that the president (whomever it is) denounces it. Or if the leader of the senate allows a vote, so it can be turned down.
Without either happening we are bound to follow the treaty. And register all guns.