Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

The head rules arent what's in the rulebook. Several engine builders have been told 1 thing and the tech officials something else. Tech's interpretations of the gray areas can be different and judgement calls vary from division to division.

There is a big difference between a stock head and a Stock Eliminator legal head. The legal bowl cut drastically changes the appearance, and its not mentioned in the rules.

CYLINDER HEADS
Must be correct casting number for year and horsepower claimed,
per NHRA Technical Bulletins or NHRA accepted. Porting,
polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited. Cylinder heads are
additionally restricted in that they must retain original-size valves at
original angles +/- 1 degree and must be able to hold original
cylinder-head volume per NHRA Specifications. Runner volumes
may not exceed the current Super Stock cylinder-head volumes as
listed on www.NHRARacer.com. Regardless of the poured volume
measurement, any modifications to intake or exhaust runners
prohibited. Any evidence of modifications from the original castings
will be grounds for disqualifications as determined by NHRA in
NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion. Any aftermarket steel valve
permitted, must retain stock head and stem diameters. Only
engines OEM-equipped with sodium-filled valves may use sodiumfilled
replacement valves. Titanium prohibited. Hardened keepers
permitted. Lash caps prohibited. Valve-diameter tolerance: +.005-
inch or -.015-inch from NHRA Specs. The following are prohibited:
spark-plug adapters; cylinder-head studs; any grinding in ports or
combustion chambers; removal of any flashings; sandblasting or
any other modification to cylinder head; any film coating of intake
and exhaust runners; any film coating of combustion chamber.
Runners and combustion chamber must retain OEM appearance.
Final acceptance as determined by NHRA in NHRA’s sole and
absolute discretion. Intake side of head may not be cut into any part
of valve cover bolt holes. Heat riser passage may be blocked from
intake manifold side of cylinder head. Blocking passage down in
valve pocket prohibited. The following are permitted: polylocks, jam
nuts, screw-in larger-diameter rocker studs or pinned studs, bronzewall
valve guides. Valve spring umbrellas optional. Cylinder head
may have all of the seats replaced. Any valve job permitted,Oringing
prohibited. Exhaust plates prohibited.

We need the rulebook updated and clarified, please.

Wade

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

The rule book is not going to get changed. It simply come down to a judgement call by the person doing the tear down.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

And this is why the 'Class' is nothing like it's 'original' intent.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Well contoured replacement valve seats are the rich man's pocket porting.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

I heard something over the weekend that really got my attention as I never really thought of it that way.

"You don't read the rulebook to see what you can't do. You read it to see what you can do."

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

We need consistency from one division to another. What we don't need is one tech person's " I don't like the way this looks".

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

What is Wade talking about? Did something happen resently with his heads? Tech should be uniform from one division to another. If I run in division 4 and check out legal, and show up at division 3 with the same engine, it should check out legal as well. Provided the heads cc correctly, etc.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

The way the rules stand today, you may or may not be legal depending on who worked your heads and what division your torn down in. I currently want to purchase a new set of heads. I have talked to tech over the last 10 months about these cylinder head rumors and what will pass and what wont. If I'm going to spend $1700-$5200 dollars, I ask for 2 things, a lower et and to pass tech.

Its no secret that the top head guys are grinding, porting and covering up the work with acid, media or spray welding. It was done back in the day and still happens. If some are going to be told its ok, isnt that where I need to spend my money? You know their stuff should be faster.

All I want to know is 1) what are the current rules, 2) will tech be consistent, 3)is the person or people telling everyone its ok to grind and cover up going to stand by what he/they have told the engine builders, or flip back and use the written word as a scape goat.

Everyone one of you guys who know me know I'm not a **** stirrer and dont want to be considered one. Just get everyone on the same page. If the rulebook is law, update it and stand by it. If modifications are going to be ok, dont quote the rulebook to us. That judgement call BS has got to go.

There is no pride in running an illegal car for me. If I'm fortunate enough to stand there and hold a class win Wally, it will be because my car is LEGAL. I just need a little clarification on what that is.............

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

There is no pride in running an illegal car for me. If I'm fortunate enough to stand there and hold a class win Wally, it will be because my car is LEGAL. I just need a little clarification on what that is.............


X2, btw Wade love the car all Black(no decals), good luck with your concerns.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

There was a story years ago about 2 chevelle wagons that had the Quarter panels spread apart for wider tires. It was illegal to spread the quarter panels apart for wider tires. One of the chevelles was obvious where they had used a hydralic jack to spread the quarters and not done any body work to finish it. The other chevelle had the quarters finished very nicely and you could not hardly tell anything had been done. Well at the U.S.Nationals the one that was obvious got bounced and the other one was allowed to run and the tech guys knew it had been done to both cars.. When you enter the grey area of the rules, you enter at your own risk. Good luck trying to get NHRA tech to tell you what they buy and what they won't. I am not trying to be a smart *** ,just repeating what a tech man once told me.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

To provide the level of clarification desired on every subject in every class, would require a 10,000 page rule book that would be more confusing than the US tax code.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Shoot peening is also very good to hide porting just make sure you use the correct media.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

In the 1970s Racing Head Service and others collected dozens of heads and selected the best ones for Stock. There aren't many of these heads left today and it is "amazing" how well they flow, all of them, not just the 5-10% that RHS found. The 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not get caught." lol.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

NHRA Technical Bulletins or NHRA accepted. Porting,
polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited.

The rule is simple you can not do any of that legally. So If you want to be legal as you say you can not get heads that have any of those things done.

In My opionion (that is worth pretty much nothing) The problem is they don't let the tech people do their job. And the cheaters need to accept the fact that they got got cheating and not run and get their lawyer. Face it any one that pays $5000 for smallblock Chevy stocker heads knows dam well that the heads are not legal acording to the rule book.
Nobody cares what is actually legal all they care is will the lack of proper tech let them run them anyway.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

That would explain why there are more than a few of these in engine shops across the US:
http://abs-products.com/blast-cabine...-bastard.shtml

Wade did not come on here to be bashed. He has a legitimate concern and was very honest about his concerns. The word "legal" doesn't really apply anymore, if it ever did. As with almost any motorsports, what "will and will not pass tech" is a more appropriate phrase.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

BINGO! You win the prize!

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

You are proably right that the phrase should be "will and will not pass tech"

What will and what won't pass tech may be reality. But the fact remains if you or if you have someone do any of the above things to a cylinder head it is not a legal cylinder head. It may very well pass tech but it is still not a legal head. Until they change the wording of the rule doing any porting and covering it up is still not legal

Now on those same lines a good digitizer could easily take the guess work out of the situation. All you need is a real untouched head to get the numbers off. All the old cars people used the core shift as to why that would not work. But with these new factory race cars with the cnc ported heads from the factory. You should be able to know without a doubt if someone has changed the cylinder head. But none of that matters because Neither HRA is ever going to take following the rules they set seriously. Hence how they got to the mess they have now.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

When Vinny Gumbotz did my head many moons ago he guaranteed they'de pass tech anywhere,anytime.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

I am going to use my motor as an example. I own many sets of 416 heads. And I can tell you that there are several different bowl shapes, straight from the factory. There are several sets that have a secondary cut in the bowl in additition to the factory bowl cut. Personally, I believe these were heads that were cast for a 1.72 valve and were opened up at the factory to accept a 1.84 valve as they needed them.

So which head would you use as a model?

I am told at a recent race, they pulled down three 305 motors. And I am told that all three heads looked different.

So how do you decide which head was wrong?

I don't want to speak for Wade, but I think his concern is simple. We have been given runner volumes. If we meet those volumes, all other measured items pass, and there are no grinding marks in our runners, shouldn't the head pass tech? At least that is the assumption many were under.

You say buy a digitizer. I say NHRA would need 8-9 of them minimum. And then they would need to train on how to use them. And then "which" head do you use as model?

I don't envy NHRA tech. We are a big pain in the a**. They work hard when we are having fun. We bitch when they do their job and we bitch when they don't.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

You are correct, the OEM's used the same castings for different applications were they changed the valve sizes and many times the chambers too. Also, you can add core shift issue on thin late model castings and the diverse foundries used for castings.

The problem in using a digitizer is that you will need to do statistical analysis to get a measurement that would cover the variation in the casting. Besides, NHRA will not invest in such equipment either.

Just think the variations they already have on the burrettes due to the differences of material and manufacturer.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

If heads cost $5k + than they're not stock! CR

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Consistancy in the interpretation of the rules is key.

There are some improvements that can be made in that area by NHRA.

Here are some issues to overcome:

NHRA officials at a high level tell different people different info
NHRA tech officials do not all agree on the interpretation
NHRA has some very knowledgable tech officials, but many have and will be retiring. There is a serious brain drain and the replacements just won't have the knowledge to effectively police these rules as they are, even if NHRA puts a process in place that would support this.
Time constraints and the desire to shave cost by NHRA limits tech opportunities
Machine Equipment has evolved to the point where there are some pretty nice heads that look good, are fast and will pass tech-but are $$$ and out of reach for many.
There are less clean castings to be had for older stockers
No specs for intake manifolds

I don't see NHRA supporting the tech staff any more than they do now.
NHRA does not seem to be able to recruit the new blood now that could learn from the veteran tech officials to transfer knowledge to them
The time constraints for teardowns are only getting worse
NHRA thinks TD and TS will be the future ( although after Joliet last weekend they might rethnk that LOL)

So what could be done?

I know some who think the clock can go back won't like it, but I think we are at a place in time to make a rule change.

My proposal would be to keep the CCs intact for the heads as a spec
Allow porting, but no filling ( weld, epoxy, etc) allow intake port matching, but no filling

Look, I saw a lot of cars pick up .2-.3 over the winter and it ain't from jetting and timing.
I think that the porting won't have the negative effect that many have said. ( as long as it is allowed up front) The price will be less and many racers will try their and learn on their own.

I believe there is more $$$$ being spent covering up the work that is and has been done than the actual port work $$$.

I say we call it what it is and level the field out some. If we don't we will continue to get what we got.

I am not saying it is perfect, but we are at the point where something has to change.

I don't see NHRA putting more time, money and thought into this. If the process of enforcement isn't easy, it won't happen in most cases.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Nicely stated, Jim. You've put your finger on a number of very real problems and offered reasonable solutions.

c

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Correct. From a money standpoint, I think NHRA sees Stock and Super Stock racers as just another competitor in the gate. From an overhead standpoint, these racers bring a lot of baggage.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Dr. Vinny Boombotz did your heads? Did you clear that with Rodney D?

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Yeah,Rodney said Vito said it was OK.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

I think you made some very good points Jim. As some one that is currently spending a lot of money to get in to this game I don't want to be DQ'd by a tech's opinion. To me it needs to be cut and dry. Allowing the porting to the cc limit and the port matching of the intake will eliminate a lot of grey areas that everyone that runs fast flirts with anyway and the racers wouldn't have the cost of whatever it is to cover up the work that they've done, which would make it cheaper on some one like me who is starting from scratch. Just my .02

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Porting opens up a whole new can of worms.

If you can port, you can cover up almost any amount of welding, within reason. You don't even have to resort to acid, or media blasting, anymore.

Once you get them to allow porting, you'll never get them to go back.

One of my best friends, who is a really good cylinder head guy, said the worst thing they did was to allow porting in Super Stock.

I really can't see where the result will be better in Stock Eliminator.

Of course, the roller rocker rule may be the precursor to porting.

It may accelerate the switch to "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder heads. Because welded iron heads always crack, it's just a matter of when. It's much easier to weld aluminum, and easier to cover it up. The supply of iron heads will dry up even more quickly, and more cylinder head guys will prefer aluminum heads anyway.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

That same guy told us that one evening at a ihra race in Huntsville back in 1997-98 !!! He was right and has been about a lot of issues here...

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Well I guess you've got a point there.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Being new to this sport, only ten years invested, please excuse my ignorance.

I was under the assumption that Super Stock was created BECAUSE there was porting going on in Stock years ago. So they created SS so there was a place to put the cars with ported heads. If that's the case, wouldn't that imply that porting has been allowed in SS since it's inception?

Welding and the resulting cover up is already happening.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

You just sent a chill down the spine of every head porter that offers cover up services.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

No, porting and polishing was not allowed to begin with in Super Stock. That came later, when they decided it was too hard to catch.

Of course welding and covering up is happening. The problem is, if every time someone cheats, the rules are changed to legitimize that cheat, sooner or later all the rules are changed, and the class no longer exists in the intended form.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Let's think about this for a minute. Let's say I'm a cylinder head guy and I have a C&C program for a super stock head which is the same cc's for stock. Let's say that after years of working on this I have the best possible runner design you can have for this combo. If I can get the NHRA legal aftermarket aluminum head in a pro port configuration all I would have to do is throw it in my C&C machine and bam!!! Its done. You have what looks like an untouched runner (after cleaning up the C&C marks I guess) and I can now pretty much mass produce this thing. The only catch is getting the casting in a pro port configuration. If I can't get the head in a pro port then I fill in the area's that need filled and then send it through my C&C machine. Am I out of my rocker here or can this pretty much be done now with any aftermarket aluminum cylinder head?

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Today's Stock = 1970s SS
today's SS = 1970s Modified Production
What's next?

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Well you could say today's Comp is like the '70s Pro Stock but they are probably way more advanced than '70 pro stock. Maybe like the 2000's pro stock.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

I would have liked to had my present SS heads on my old C/SM Camaro. A little media blasting and what we had then could have been a poor set of present day Stocker heads. The aluminiun heads have an advantage there.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

I would have loved to have current "Stocker" heads on our SBC S/S cars back in the 70's,
Valve springs and all !

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

The W-2 heads that were run in B/SM and C/SM in 76, 77 & 78 were ported and shot peened for Mopar/Hamburger but in Mopar boxes and sent backed to warehouse and sent out to racers. I was helping Fadely in 77 & 78 at Spring Nationals Jim Dale and Jim Fagan sent all the B/SM Fords to tear down at Mayo's place to check out the heads NHRA CC'd the intake ports and measured the ports with dividers and snap garages It was Mike Urley Jim Ellien Jim Stevens and Fadely of the 4 Fadely's were the smallest in volume and bowl dia and short turn height. As I remember the had FJ Smith there with his Chevy.

Re: Stocker Cylinder Heads....
 

Alan, this is being done now. NHRA has a chemical spray that will detect any form of welding. It has already been used in a Tech teardown situation.

Wade