Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Please forgive me if this has already been a topic covered recently.

Can someone tell me why having an after market rack and pinion steering unit on an older car is not permitted in the Super Stock division, especially in the Super Stock Hemi classes?

Is this a purist issue? I really can't see that it's a performance gain.

Without slamming the NHRA and all of this stuff, is there a reason why this is an issue?

BOBBY BENNETT

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

It takes more than a rack change. The Hemi's cam with a steering gear box. Danny tried to slip this through several years ago. Could open up a performance advantage in the oil pan area. Why would you want make all the Hemi cars change? As far a gain it takes a lot of work on those cars to get the front end geom correct.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Bobby I'm with you on this. I like keeping things as stock or super stock as possiable. But, on the flip side, have you seen what is allowed to be done with a FWD conversion car to run GT or Modified? I do see the rack an pinions steering on those, because they came with it. But, to allow, round tube lower frame rails on the front with tube A-arms? But if you have a RWD car in GT or what ever you can't run tube A-arms? Or rack and pinion location in relation to the cross member, Weird. To go back to your question I know of several SS/AH racers who have asked about using rack and pinions in there cars. I was told they were told NO, period! Crazy... I say if it could be a bolt on unit then yes.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Yep, the FWD cars have the freedom to use a manufactured or fabricated crossmember and lower control arms when the RWD are not allowed. The aftermarket has some good pieces available from BMR, AJR, QA1 and others for RWD cars that probably would make them safer than the old OEM parts that may eventually need repairs or replacement.

If it was allowed on RWD, you could also expect some of the ADRL, NMCA and NMRA cars cross over and race in some of the NHRA classes.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

So, you feel completely safe running against an 8-second car with a stock 1960's style unit or something like that?

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

How about a SS/AH [ or most SS Mopars] having a catastrophic crank failure at 9500 with the centerlink thru the pan? This was a big topic at Indy several years ago wishing for rack and pinion. Catasrophy waiting to happen. NHRA said "yeah...we gotta take care of that".

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

If the parts are new or in good shape I would.

Do you think a rack (especially a typical aftermarket drag racing version) is actually as strong as the old stuff (designed back in a day when there were many many many dirt roads with pot holes)?

Think about the mounting pads on the rack.......

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

i say leave a little stock in superstock

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Do you also mean that FWD should stay FWD and not converted to a RWD???:confused:

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Again, it all depends what they have for a front suspension and frame.

Most of the SS/AH cars have a Lamb Components suspension system that makes them safe.

However, like it was implied earlier. what happens if the centerlink is damaged due to an engine putting a few windows in the block?

I have also many GM cars develop cracks in the lower arms, elongate the bushing and ball joint holes and eventually fail.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Jeez, I was disappointed when they got rid of stock rear springs...

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Bobbie:
Seems like an odd question coming from you.

What you don't see is the engineering and work involved in building a modern Super Stock racecar chassis.

These no longer have 40 plus year old stock suspensions but well designed and constructed components to handle the power and speed of today's Super Stock engines.

Those of us that have build and are building these racecars primarily specialize in them alone. We have continued to keep these cars state of the art........and safe.

FJ Smith

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

I didn't see that anywhere! I have built several of these fwd to rwd cars. And if youv'e never tried it, it's quite a project. Starting with aftermarket, struts and brakes, making a firewall, driveshaft tunnel and transmission tunnel and yes mounting to rack. I will say, I could build a rwd car 4 times quicker than fwd conversion and may do one soon to take advantage of an easier index. As far a rack for steering verses steering box, I see a weight advantage and for those drag links through the oil pan (chevy II) It would be easier to build a good pan. I think the rule is fine the way it is. sorry Bobby

Ernie Neal
SS 354

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Ernie, I am very familiar with the evolution of the FWD SS cars. The early Olds cars built by FJ and others, do not even come close to new new generation of FWD cars. The early cars still kept the original lower control arms, modified to accept the Strange struts and did not have fabricated K-members either. They had a modified OEM K-member.

I could continue picking on the differences between the early and newer FWD. It is not fair for a RWD car to have a heads-up against an later FWD car.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

This is why the fwd conversions only run GT. If you want to run another car headsup, and have it be fair, run your rwd car in Super stock.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

But some of the new Mustangs have adapted the GT Struts

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Why, worried that a RWD built under the same rules would be competitive against a FWD??? :eek::)

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

I wouldn't be surprised if you see new rule changes aimed at making the older cars safer for the speeds they are running. Just saying.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

You never answered Why you think the older cars are unsafe! Are you after a r&p for your Chevy II?

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

ask any of the Hemi guys about breaking a box and losing steering. Of course, I'd love to have a modern day manufactured rack and pinion on my wagon -- running in the nines as opposed to the stock unit. Who wouldn't?

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

question; how is a rack gonna be any stronger than a centerlink if you've got a rod beating the snot out of it?
last i checked, they'll be in the same general area and, btw, i see broken racks (oem) every now and then...

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

There are a few cars that I have seen develop cracks on the cross members and also on the lower control arms from wheel stands including ball joints go thru the lower control arm mount.

There are many cars out there that have reinforced lower control arms for this reason.

Many of the Global West lower and upper bushing kits come with reinforcement plates too.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Just how many of the Hemi's have had this failure? Ran in the high 8's 35 years ago big wheel stands and all!

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Ask Steve Kent about them.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Bobbie,
Like I said before, there are very qualified chassis builders working within the rules to make all these cars safe to drive at speed. A lot of engineering goes into the steering among all other parts of the Super Stock racecar chassis.

We are NOT interested in making another super gas class!

FJ Smith

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Yep, very interesting comment from a shop that builds Super Stock cars with SFI 25.2 and SFI 25.5 cages,Pinto Rack & Pinions, along with tubular K-Members and lower control arms. :confused: :rolleyes:

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

FJ, I have the utmost of respect for what you've done and accomplished in this sport.

But, putting a rack on an old school Camaro, Nova or Mustang is far from Super Gas. Putting a rack on a SS/AH car is not Super Gas either.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

I will tell you this much, it ain't that easy.

It would require a lot of changes in components that are deemed stock to use for the model(s) in question.

Believe me, I, and others, have no doubt tried these changes in the past.

FJ

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Doesn't NASCAR still use a "box" style steering?

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Yes

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Everyone knows why a few want aftermarket rack and pinion steering on older S/S cars. Its not about safety.......its all about less weight on the frontend.

Hang in there NHRA. Don't give in to the rantings of the few! If they want rack & pinion, tell them to build a FWD conversion for SS/GT and leave real S/S alone.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Safety versus weight savings??? :rolleyes:
You should do your homework prior to making a non sense statement.
The common Mopar aluminum manual steering box weight is around 19 pounds. A rack & pinion weight is around 14 pounds, not counting the mounting provisions. So, if you consider just the weight of both, is a 5 pound weight difference worth a 10th or more??? :eek:

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Nice try NWD.

Just incase you forgot, regular steering also consists of a heavy center link, 2 inner tie rod ends, 2 outer tie rod ends, tie rod sleeves, an idler arm with bracket, and a pitman arm. None of those are aluminum. And on makes other than Mopar, the steering box is much heavier.

I stand by my original statement. Wanting aftermarket rack and pinion in place of the OEM steering box set up is only about saving weight...its not about safety.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

I stand by mine too and I would assume you do not race a Mopar either.

If you are so smart and did some research, it is not a bolt-on deal for RWD cars that did not have it from the factory.
Although you remove components like you said, it is not a bolt on deal. You need to add a frame to support and provisions which adds weight to the car.

Just like the aftermarket seat thread, just because someone ask for a change, it does not mean that there is always an advantage.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Sure there is. When the sanctioning bodies were asked to allow disc brakes on stockers, they allowed OEM disc brakes to replace the front drums on older cars. Very few stepped up and used "safer" but heavy OEM disc brakes to replace their drums. BUT when aftermarket lightweight disc brakes were finally allowed in stock, many racers jumped on the lighter weight bandwagon.

Its not about safety...its about lighter weight parts being allowed.

Re: Aftermarket Rack & Pinion
 

Yep, It's all conspiracy theories!!!:eek::rolleyes: ...but...let's not forget that in the past 10 years the speeds of the cars have increased drastically.

So, in your world, let's keep the OEM brakes on cars exceeding 120 MPH and watch them at the end of the track lock up or fade!!!:rolleyes:

I am done with the arguments!!! If it makes you feel better...You Win!!:rolleyes: