What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Is there anyone else trying to get into the Gator Nats?

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

oxymoron for a thread title aside are you referring to grade points to replace those who've withdrawn?

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Please, please never couple NHRA with any of the following words:
logic
common sense
courtesy
customer relations
integrity
value (s)
etc etc etc

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

If you own a group of stores and they are hundreds of miles apart, someone shows up to one of the stores with a $180 dollars, you let him in (one grade point). He is a participant of your store. That same person can't make any of the other stores do to other commitments, distances and time off from work. But then there is a grand opening store. That person wants to go to the grand opening and has $250 to give to your store, the store owner turns him down because he didn't attend a second store opening (2 grade points). There is room for this person in the grand opening, but he doesn't have the second store on his history, the store owner wouldn't take his money. Not a wise business decision!! NHRA!
More businesses should be run like this, they are wondering why car counts are down! There are allot of people caught up like I am with the economy, can't get time off and the races are too far to go to in a Friday's night drive.

This was my first writing under this title!

Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Tried to get into the Gators this year with only 1 grade point. Could not as grade 2 filled it up on Saturday, before the Wednesday deadline for grade 1's. called NHRA and was informed that if someone was to drop out, only grade 2 could get in as that's when it was filled. They had an 80 car field, while Super Comp was at 100, I don't get it. Now in Stock, it is down to 77, but I can't get in. Oh, and by the way, there are only 13 cars from FL entered in Stock.

Anyone else out there run a business like this?

Ron Ortiz
U/SA IHRA sure looks good now

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I hadn't raced my car for a few years and last year inquired about
getting into the Brainerd National event. One week before cutoff there
were 12 Super Stock cars entered in a field of 60. I called NHRA and
explained my situation and the fact that there were only 12 cars entered.
They told me regardless of # of entries I had to have a grade point. When
I asked if wouldn't they rather have the revenue than an small field they
repeated the grade point requirement. I tried the Div Director but he was
away the day I tried. At that point I decided I shouldn't have to work that
hard to give someone my money.
I understand the grade point program when you have more demand than
supply but to not open it up when there are low entries?? Why not open it
up a couple days before the final cutoff and take as many entries and cash
as it takes to fill the field?
Anyway they ended up with 33 cars in S/S and I saved some money.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Ron: I sent emails to Jennifer Gregg @ NHRA and I spoke to Rich S., the division director, they both repeat the same business policy. I'm hoping that some one at NHRA comes to their senses about getting revenue into the mix and let the 2 of us in. It's no sweat off anyones balls to open up the field to 1 grade point now.
I don't of any other business that refuses income from people that have participated and have memeberships in their business organization.
Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

there is business policy and then there is stupidity and arrogance, i believe you are the victim of the second

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

N H R A = No Happy Racers Allowed

My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Wow,am I glad I bailed when I did.Who needs this crap?3-5 years goodbye drag racing as we know it.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

What kind of warped logic is the grade point policy based upon?

At a time when the economy is down why would you limit the number of racers that will give you money to race

If you have a new grocery store are you only going to let in the ones with coupons while many more people without coupons stand outside waving cash at you?

What a stupid policy.

JimR

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

TreeSavoy, There you go again using Logic in your question. Kind of like the HP factors a motor gets to get 40 people to build/buy one. THEN the ahfs lets them dominate and remove the fun for the other 400 racers till many continue to drop out based on developing a bad attitude about racing...

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Casey, call me, 941-773-7948

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

You won't like this but I think your all nuts !

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I don't of any other business that refuses income from people that have participated and have memeberships in their business organization.
Casey Miles

Casey, that's why it's called a "not for profit organization". Would the the last drag racer leaving California please turn out the light.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I thought the grade point system was to ensure that racers support the divisional races and/or natioanl open series. If you don't race the divisionals you can't race the nationals.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Thanks Ricki - I'm glad someone besides me finally got it ................That rule isn't something new - its been in effect for a great many years

Now it'll be my turn to get flamed .

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

BINGO!!!!! We have a winner. At least there is someone who knows how the system works. I did not say he actually likes the system, he just knows how the system works.

In fact all those who are accepted to a National event know how the system works and they get to play.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I like this system as long as it suits me.:D

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I will give another perspective, I am a business owner and I have a loyal customer, Places 2 orders with my company every year,
He calls me and wants to place a rush order, at the same time, i get a call out of the blue from someone else and they want to place a rush order and says maybe this will lead to 4 orders a year. I can only do one rush order.

Who do I please 1st or 2nd Guy? My policy was to service 1st guy, I call it loyalty.

With that being said,
I certainly would try to come up with a way to service 2nd customer.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

In this case the "1st customers " are already serviced and the 2nd customers still don't get serviced. I would maybe have a diff price to the 2nd customers so the 1st customers don't b!@#H about it.Say if a field is not full and a "no grade point" racer wants to enter then charge extra to get in the field......1st customer gets the less expensive deal...Just an idea...

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

That's the way the system is supposed to work, those who race the divisional program get first crack at the limited number (quota) of available entries into the national events. The greater the participation, the earlier the members can be guaranteed a spot in the field. That makes some sense.

What doesn't make sense, at least to me, is if there are unused entries available after a certain date, why can't a dues-paying member of the association be given an entry? They already have a cut-off date published in advance anyway. Are people being punished because they haven't raced in the divisional program? Just thinking out loud!

Lew

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

We all know how it's supposed to work....but it doesn't and once again why turn away money? It's the NHRA trying to tell you where you can race and if you don't cooperate you don't get to race at all. I should be able to drive up to the gate at Indy and pay my fee and race......I'm a member, I pay my dues, you(nhra) work for me, I want to race.........period!

Grade points are only a way for the NHRA to make money at member tracks.

How I see it,

Let the flogging begin

JimR

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Jim - Read what you are saying - its their job to keep control of the entries - look at the IHRA - they never know how many are going to show up .How could you properly staff a race like Indy when you haven't a clue who will show up at the gate ?

BTW , grade points are not given at all member tracks just the ones who host Lucas Oil races and National Opens .Another fact about them is that almost all are losers financially - ask any track operator .

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Talk about member tracks, down here all the tracks used to be NHRA, Now they are IHRA, my closest track to me is Orlando, 200 miles away. Who's fault is it that that the tracks go to another association? Not the racer! We used to have a national open at the old Moroso, (grade point) now there is nothing in the area. There are 5 tracks down here and all are IHRA.
I want to participate at the NHRA and do my best with limited time to do so. Since I got layed off from my job of 24 years, and started with a new job, there is no vacation time to just go to the points races that are 300 to 750 miles away.

There are still some racers out here with limited buggets and very limited time but still want to participate.

Casey Miles
248H Stock?

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

So let's ask ourselves - Why is there a quota system at all? The reason I hear most often is that there is limited parking area in the pits at most events, so they (NHRA) have to restrict entries to a manageable level. True?

The only other reason I can see for mandating a quota is that they need to print an entry list for the event program! How would it look if you just showed up?:eek:

Lew

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Rules is rules... Go bracket racing..Right?
Wait till Etown National .I have 5 grade might not get in closest track for me
I will show them [nhra] I will go to 4 wide North Carolina
Also by next week former world champs will enter.It will fill up.
There are other options.Also saw your old photos on YB..the camaro was fast back then

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Jack, there's another way to look at it. It's NHRA's job to hold races and insure the races are run safely, consistently and orderly. If you think that means "control of the entries", so be it. They ran races for years quite successfully without knowing who or how many would show up. I can still remember when you could purchase an entry to a national event at the gate. I also remember over 600 stock, super stock and modified entries at Indy. It's about control and money - your money.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I'm with you, James. I want to enter Supernats but with a grade 4, I might be on the outside looking in. Needing grade points to enter a national is nothing new. When I started racing in the mid 70s, the division office would send you a request sheet for the national events you wanted to enter. You checked off the races and they sent you back the applications. These application forms had the number of division races you attended in the corner.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

just another example of the many in this country that feel they are ENTITLED to a good paying job, medical coverage, a house, a new car, paid vacation and now entry into a national event have the soialist mentality where everyone is equal and hard work, dedication, commitment means nothing.:rolleyes:

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Dwight - You have some valid points - they did run things differently back in the Seventies - we even got a Sunday morning time shot .But today fitting six hundred entries is hard - we now tow with motorhomes and have stackers in that space - not to mention the Pro's (ala John Force types with plenty of sponsor rigs ) - we just don't fit in the same space we once did .

Yes , its about control - but remember - its their bat and ball we're playing with .

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Jack, just don't forget that each membership and every entry fee helps pay for the upkeep and their ability to have "their bat and ball"!

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

If I didn't have a grade point, this link would have even been opened. But, the entry level should be at 1 grade point and because of BS rule put into place by who knows, NHRA will not allow me to get an entry. I've been raceing Stock since 1974, holding a NHRA memebership and comp number, NHRA doesn't give a s**t!

James: My car was the s**t back in the day. That was with a Muncie trans and stock valve springs. 98 lbs on the seat and 206 open lbs. With all the new stuff, I haven't seen much improvement, but I'm getting old too.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I fully understand the grade point system, always have always will. The PROBLEM is with the amount of entries per category. Why did they start the gators with only 55 Super Stock quota. 80 Stock, 70 S/G, and 100 S/C. And "class" racing for Stk and SS on top of it. That is stupid. Finally, SS was increased to 80 due to a flood of entries by the third week. Hey, common sense, but it stopped there.

Nothing against the S/C guys, but their rigs are all going to be long, why 100 then, while the others have less amount quota. Don't give me that BS of limited space, I've been pitted at the gators outside the fence and in the parking lot for too many years. It does not matter if you get there on Tuesday or Thursday, you're in the boondocks. The only time spectators see your car is on the way in to the gate or on the way out.

A major problem is that they are shrinking the quotas and giving more space to the "NHRA Needy". I said years ago that they were little by little eliminating bottom sportsman from National Events. Gators in the past were 128, then 100, then 90, now 80, why? With the advent of geographical "Sportsnationals" you can see the trend happening. It's coming. If they only have a 64 car field they would be happy, then your grade point system is a joke. You all know they treat you like crap, why else would you run eliminations at 8:00 AM, then at 10:00 PM on occasion. Yeah, I love racing, but not at 8:00 AM, especially with the sun looking down the track at you, heck I could not find the tree last year as I came out of the water box, much less see the bulbs.

Spectators love fuel cars at night, why don't they qualify at night to free up time trials during the day for other classes, that is just a lost opportunity to increase spectator presence, which results in more spending.

Jack, you said, " its their job to keep control of the entries - look at the IHRA - they never know how many are going to show up .How could you properly staff a race like Indy when you haven't a clue who will show up at the gate ?
Answer, you can enter the gators with 1 grade point up to March 5th, the race is the 8th, kind of like showing up at the gate. All they know is that only 80 can enter and that's what they go by. Staffing is predictable, this applies to an IHRA event like wise, but the option of entering on race day is a benefit to the racer, and the sanctioning body as it is increased revenue, without the loss of control.

You all need to take a real close look at the way things are happening, it is becoming obvious that only the "select" will be racing at future national events.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA only 13 from FL

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I think what you all are missing is NHRA is NOT the only game in town (per sa) if I don't like the way I'm being treated by any business I'll simply go somewhere else. I know I've read all the reasons racers give for not racing with another organization, some may be valid, however from reading quite a few posts over the years it's apparent there's a few that are disenchanted with the way they feel NHRA is treating them. Looks like you have a few options here....post on web sites....quit attending their races...OR heaven forbib find another organization to race with. There's always going to be something that happens to someone that P's them off, happened to me a few years ago with IHRA so I quit going to their races I felt I was right and they felt they were right, so I exercised my right to spend my money elsewhere. There are a few things that NHRA does that doesn't exactly thrill me but for the most part I like racing with them and enjoy the people I've met along the way. I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you're not happy with them show them the only way it really matters quit doing business with them. Joe

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Ron - If everyone paid at the gate no one would pre-enter and staffing would still be an issue regardless of what the quota is .As far as the IHRA goes they have never had an 80 car Stock field ( in recent years ) - most are like 25 or 30 tops .

Select racers at National events - nope but they are the ones with grade points - and they earned them by going to the Lucas races .

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Do you even have to be there to get a grade point? Do you have to have a car? There were a few SS racers at Phoenix who got two grade points each by teching into stock or maybe they just had to buy a tech card. Maybe they teched in rental cars I don't know.

Do you know anybody at SGMP or Houston that could try to tech in for you or at least ask? I know it will cost $160 or whatever, but at least you would have a chance to enter the Gators.


-Toby

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

All you have to do is pass tech at a divisional or national open to get a grade point.

I find it funny that people get mad that NHRA won't let them in to race all the while cursing them about how they run their operation. If you don't like the way they run things, why would you be upset about not being able to experience their event.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

Good point! JIm


.

Re: What's up with NHRA logic?
 

I still don't think Casey's question was answered -

Should there be an open entry option if there are entries available at a National event after all eligible participants have been accommodated?

Are unused quota's a bad thing?

Lew