Pro tree
 

Has anyone ever brought up the idea of a protree for class races that are heads up I think it would be a great idea myself what do you guys think?

Re: Pro tree
 

You're on the wrong thread. The .90 classes have their own thread.

If not, leave Stock and S/S off your silly idea list!!!!!!.

Re: Pro tree
 

Another really bad idea. Go to a .90's class if you want a pro tree. Leave us alone!

Re: Pro tree
 

Tim,
I agree!!!:D I've raced the .500 pro tree on a handicap in the NMRA's Open Comp and when the UMTR used to have a couple Pro Tree races every year. To me I think its the only way to race. The problem is trying to get the nay sayers to put their purse down long enough to even try it.:eek: Most of the time after you get them to try it the majority likes it. But you always have the handful that don't and they cry because they weren't ready and because they were the fast car or they were the slow car. Trust me I've heard it over and over and over. We are bottom bulb racers, right? .500 bulbs, right? Its a no brainer to me. Especially with a stick car its AWESOME!!!:D Its about as close to feeling like your driving a Pro Stocker as most will ever get. Also it will eliminate the need for everybody to use the blinders that they use so they don't see the first two bulbs.;)

To me its the difference between driving an automatic and a stick car. I personally call the full tree an automatic tree. :eek: But that's just me.

Re: Pro tree
 

Have you ever tried it? My guess is no.

Re: Pro tree
 

I've ran both many times. I loved it when we ran top stock it was Awesome, like you said I just was thinking for the heads up runs it would be cool that's all.

Some may not like it because they can't use their delay boxes lol!

Re: Pro tree
 

I think you're on to something with the delay boxes:D. Yeah heads up should be a no brainer.

Re: Pro tree
 

You never heard so much complaining about the 5 tenths Pro tree as when we first started "Top Stock" many years ago. Usually its the ones who have never done it that complain the most. After the first Top Stock race at Norwalk, Ohio the racers decided it was the ONLY way to go on a heads up race. And these were races who raced on a sportsman tree all their lives such as Mike Keener, Paul Mecure, and many others driving sticks AND automatics. Many cut .001 to .005 lights on their first shot at the tree.

Re: Pro tree
 

Exactly!!!!

Just think Tim. We are the future of Stock and Super Stock:D

Re: Pro tree
 

It will work in handicap racing also. This might get rid of the large amount or red lights in the eliminator.

Re: Pro tree
 

This is a ridiculous argument. Pro & Full trees are different disciplines. Pro tree requires either a fast-reacting car/driver/or both, but in any case it is simply an instinct reaction. Some people are better at it than others, but it's not *hard*. Full tree racing requires a lot more out of the driver. There's a reason why people use blinders and/or delay boxes where permissible. Full Tree racing also adds another variable to heads-up runs, sometimes giving the slower car a little more of a chance due to error or overconfidence by the faster car. Pro Tree would dumb it down and give the faster car far less chance to red light or have a cautious light. Yes, it'd be fun for a non-sanctioned event, but makes little sense to toss Pro Tree runs in with a Full Tree category.

And yes, I have Pro Tree raced. (and won, both a handicapped Pro Tree race with a street-legal car, and a 7.0 heads-up Index class with my Stocker)

And BTW, people do use delay boxes in many Pro Tree categories. Might be even tougher to find discover them in Pro Tree classes where they are prohibited.

$.02,

Re: Pro tree
 

Back in the 70s I raced a 4/10ths pro tree at National on Long Island every Tuesday eve and a full tree at Hampton every Sunday, I definitely liked the pro tree better. The lights would have to be shielded from the opposing lane though to prevent one from leaving off the others light.

Re: Pro tree
 

I was just seeing what everyone thought personally there's nothing like standing on the starting line while two stick cars stage for a pro tree!

Re: Pro tree
 

X2

Re: Pro tree
 

In my opinion this would have to bring more spectators back to the sport.

Re: Pro tree
 

I believe the post was about HEADS UP "CLASS" runs for class. Not a handicap start.

Re: Pro tree
 

I've raced both. As Michael Beard stated, it "dumbs down" the racers. Anybody with no skill can hammer down some pretty good RT's on a pro-tree. And yes, you will have fewer redlights.
But the skill set required for a full-tree is much greater. It separates the posers from the real racers. It gives the experienced full-tree racer an advantage over others. And that is the point and that is why you hear resistance.
Sorry...just the facts!

Re: Pro tree
 

Understood, I just threw that in because of the abuse of leaving off the other guys light with the 4/10ths at National. Many of the cars had 10" converters and didn't leave as hard as they do now so it was almost impossible without anticipating to redlight even when staging deep. If you were dialed in at 12.0 and your opponent at 12.05, you left off his light and that gave you an advantage that .he could do nothing about. Many of the racers didn't understand this or the staging deep tricks which made it much harder for them to win.

Re: Pro tree
 

Personally I wish they would go to a Pro Tree during class. Much more exciting for driver and fans.

Re: Pro tree
 

69Cobra your wrong i have raced a pro tree

Re: Pro tree
 

I would think in this day and age, you should be able to tell the tower what kind of tree that you would like on your side ((5 tenths Pro or Full for S/SS.

Lets say you have a lower class car and need OR just like a full tree you put an "F" in front of your dial-in.

If you want a pro 5 tenths then you would put an "X" in front of your dial.

Reduce confusion by using an "X" and not an "P" Because they could get mixed-up or misread in the tower.

I don't know it's just an idea.. and it would end the blinder debate.

Glen DeMenge

Re: Pro tree
 

Let's just keeping changing the rules once a week and in about 6 months we'll have
totally destroyed a system that has worked fairly well,till a bunch of malcontents/no racing crybabies decided that because they can't excell want the sport dumbed down so that
they might have a chance do do well.

Re: Pro tree
 

The MOST fun I've ever had driving my car was when I talked D5 into letting us run our own Top Stock a few years ago. There first time I raced a pro tree and had it hung on the limiter waiting for the lights to come down I was all smiles :D

The problem was there was no parachute lever to throw at the end of the run...ha!

Re: Pro tree
 

Exactly. I do not get how some people cant see that this is more exciting (for heads up racing). If Pro Stock switched to a five tenths tree it would not be nearly as much fun to watch.

Re: Pro tree
 

Maybe you just can not handle a pro tree.

Re: Pro tree
 

Can you say that for sure?Quite a few P/S racers came from sportsman racing and they
understand the concept of the 5/10s tree.Make it a 4/10s tree.Hey there's guys that want a pro tree in S/SS heads up races.So as long as we're changing the sport just for the sake of change why not try this too?Starting to sound like 2008 "We need a change".

Re: Pro tree
 

I'm with you and Troy ,hey Stubbs i thought you were gonna put stick in that ls1 camaro

Re: Pro tree
 

Tony I do ok with a pro tree. I dont think it would be a good idea to use a pro tree for heads up than go back to a fivetenths tree for dial in races.

Re: Pro tree
 

It doesnt matter what someone wanted to change or try on here, you would still disagree with it. Top Stock was very exciting to watch because it was a pro tree. Its "heads up" racing and there is nothing wrong with running in on a pro tree. The Pros have been doing it for years. Ed, you might even like it in that little AMC of yours.

Re: Pro tree
 

It is going to happen.....

Re: Pro tree
 

Kevin,just read back a few years on here and think of all the mommas boy crying,high-
lighted by the phrase "we need to level the playing field".You can't get a majority on any
situation with a group of 3 people.
I bracket raced from 1977 till 1993 and there were tries at doing different things with the
pro tree (we ran some index classes) and thery all pooped out.I started putting tpe on my window to block the second bulb around 1981 which in effct was a form of seeing a pro light and it served me well.Then of course some guys started using enough tape on their windows to wrap an egyptian mummy family.It got to the point where it was a miricle that
no one was hit by cars driving to the lanes.NHRA finally said no more tape.
You give some guys an inch and they'll take a mile.
So you see when I make posts counter to the new rule of the week I draw on the yearts of experience I've had seeing the worse come out in some people under the guise of
winning at any cost.
You say the Pros have been doing it for years.Well look back to the "stone age" and the pros not only ran full trees but the ran a 5 bulb full tree.
BTW T/S and T/D run full tree and look at their mastery of the full tree.
Just some musings from an old fart who's getting weary of all the cries for change and
so called leveling the playing field.
The real change we need is more dilligent monitoring of HP factors,enforcement of EXISTING rules and an increase of the payouts for our participation.

Stepping down off the soap box.

Re: Pro tree
 

I don't get how some of you guys can say that a pro tree "dumbs down" the sport. When the top sportsman racers in the country use blinders to "dumb down" the full tree. Should I make a list? I believe there would be quit a few recent world champs that use blinders, starting with Biondo, Iacono, Decker, Richardson and even Jeggy as we all seen on tv and the list goes on.

Ed,
I apologize what you guys have been doing is working don't worry. Hopefully there will be enough seats at Indy on Thursday for all the spectators to have a seat to watch Stock.:rolleyes:

BTW Ed,
I don't think any of us are looking at it as leveling the playing field. 'Cuz I'll cut the tree down on ya either way.

Best light with a full tree is a .000 and my best light with a pro tree is .002. Don't need to level any playing field.

Re: Pro tree
 

I agree, there are other things that are more important, but I do not think trying a pro tree for class runoffs would be to harmful to the sport. Thats just my opinion. Change is not always bad, there have been many changes to the sport that have benefited it as well as the racers. Just because "it has always been done this way", doesnt necessarily mean that it is the best way. That is kind of like saying that we have to do everything the way it has always been done. I, personally, think it would be cool to have a couple of races a year run off of the pro tree just for fun. Again, just my opinion. And I do value your opinion ED.

Re: Pro tree
 

T/S and T/D "MASTERY" of the full tree is due to the worst invention ever.....The DELAY BOX !

Re: Pro tree
 

Pro-tree is a good idea for class eliminations but not so much for heads-up runs during eliminations.

Re: Pro tree
 

They won't even add functionality to AutoStart to handle deep staging. :rolleyes:

You have just made the point! People use blinders because it's easier.

Re: Pro tree
 

Heads up stick cars would get your blood pumping back when IHRA was pro tree and there were no high side chips.

Re: Pro tree
 

I am in favor of a pro tree because The advantage for the tree we have now is no doubt to a person who races the most . This is verified by simply seeing who is winning all the time , practice practice practice is what makes a person win , but I am in favor of a pro tee cause 95 % of the racers don't have the time , money or desire to go to as many races as they should or want to . the pro tree would even up the starting line advantage that the 5% of the people who race every weekend have no doubt

Re: Pro tree
 

Let me see.....Stick Car...Pro Tree......Heads up ......First one to finish line, WINS...PERFECT I'm in.


Dirk Olson
5036 B/S

Re: Pro tree
 

This is exactly what I was asking about