Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I know they aren't currently allowed (unless it's in a CJ or DP), but has NHRA ever considered the crate motor classes? I'm currently building a CM car, mainly to be run in our local series. But with losing our closest IHRA Track (Epping) I've been looking around for the next closest races and without driving 20+ hours, there are now none for us.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

No!

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Why would anybody paint themselves into a corner like that? I would build something that can run both places.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Here we go again .

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I don't run Stock, so don't care about them one way or another. Just don't understand building one unless surrounded by IHRA tracks with no desire to ever run NHRA.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I don't understand doing it at all. It's not like you can go buy a crate motor from the dealer, bolt it in, and be competitive. It's just as expensive to either build one yourself, or pay someone to build it for you, if you want one that is competitive, as it is to build a competitive real combination.

And to be blunt, I hope NHRA never accepts any of them, the new bogus paper crate motor factory cars are enough of a joke, we don't really need anymore laughs.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Chipper
They all make the point of DONT build a crate motor car
Your tow would be over 20 hours so why add that to your yearly racing
Most class racers dont want to dilute the class or change it
Ihra had to add as many classes as they could to get the car count
Now on a positive note if you dont build a crate motor car you can race at Epping and Lebanon Valley they have a great group of races the end on June and into july this year
Also dont over look the All Stars they are a great bunch to race with and race between Lebanon Valley and Epping
And if you are going to still build a Crate Motor car the All Stars will let you race with them
What combo are you going to run?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I had already spent a bunch of money on the engine before realizing how few places other than epping there were, and then lost them. I was also under the impression the All Star races were NHRA only as well. The reason I chose to run a crate is simple, where I live, even the 70's smog era parts are getting hard to come by. So all my crate parts are readily available throught the GM Dealer I work for. My combo is the ZZ4 350/345@360HP, in a 77 Camaro, fits G/CM at 3410 pounds. I know running a the legal 350 for the car, could be a very fast combo. But I'm now stuck with the crate stuff, at least for now. Just can't afford a second engine build now.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Check the ASRA Schedule on the Class Racer site. 6 races, including a double at NED.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Yeah, but so many of the current old "stock" combinations are nothing more than paper motors any more. When your 396s got the 401 heads, the 359 manifolds, pistons that do not resemble production pieces, aftermarket carbs, 7/16" pushrods, etc. etc. the "stock" goes away. And that is just one example. The Delusion that Stockers are production pure pieces is just that. They are mostly formula cars now. Why not include additional optional definitions that can be controlled just as easy in teardown, yet are built with easy to obtain parts? Just a different formula in my mind, and easier to control. It's hard for somebody to come up with bogus 40 year-old documentation to change the facts of a production engine just to gain an advantage when the definition is clear to begin with and its not dragged out of somebody's wet dream from their teenage years.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

The 396/375 is a crate engine minus the crankshaft. It was just done slowly and policed fairly well as the aftermarket parts were put on. It doesn't sound like NHRA is presently in the business of slow, moderate, properly-factored changes.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Chipper think about SS/GT/HA. Your present shortblock should be legal as a 350 300 horse you have to change heads and carb. Should be able to run under index esp. IHRA. ...Thanx Trevor

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Dwight, I have no illusion or delusion that stockers are pure production pieces. Yes, the big blocks have been allowed replacement parts.

My 427 pistons still look a lot like original pistons actually, but I'll agree they are better than the old TRW's. I guess my stuff isn't cheated up enough.

My new aftermarket carburetor is no faster than my original. I don't think my new 359 is any faster than my good 163. I have to carry 75-80 pounds to put those 401 heads on. And honestly, I'm not sure they're worth it.

Now, a current Stock Eliminator engine IS a well scienced race piece, I agree completely on that point. Actually, that's part of my point. You can't go BUY a crate motor, put it in, and be competitive. You still have to do exactly the same thing to a crate motor. At least, you do if you want to go fast. And it costs the same. The ONLY advantage to a crate motor, expense or difficulty wise, is not having to search for a few castings.

If you build a new crate motor, and you don't put the trick stuff in it, like race bred pistons, big pushrods, and the rest, it'll be a slug. All of that stuff has nothing at all to do with the argument against crate motors, that's just a matter of racers cheating, and NHRA deciding to allow it rather than police the class. They don't want to tech to prevent it, so they let it in.

NHRA has already proven they're not going to define and police anything. So why add a bunch of new stuff that they're not going to police and define better than what we already have? THAT is the problem with crate engines. They can come up with a new engine, on paper, with parts from a catalog, assign a soft factor to it, and start all over again, any time they want. NHRA will not add crate classes, they don't want more classes. Honestly, the majority racers don't want them either, and the class can't stand it.

For crate engines to get in NHRA, they'd be added into the current classes. We already have bogus paper crate cars, we really don't need any more of them.

I can sympathize with Chipper, having spent his money, and now being invested in something he's going to have a hard time racing. I hate to see it happen, to anyone.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

One other advantage to crate motors is that for many people, it's less expensive and a lot easier to find, as well as tune, a Holley carb as opposed to a Thermoquad or Quadrajet.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Since I had one, I certainly won't blast the "crate motor stocker" concept. In my mind, however, CM cars are Modified Production machines much in the same way SS/GT rigs are actually Gassers. That's how they'd be interpreted in "old school" rulebooks, anyway.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Myron, I agree, but only to a certain extent.

But, if you want to find parts, you can find them. All you have to do is look. Yeah, some are easier to find than others. And some are cheaper than others.

As far as carburetors go, it doesn't matter what carburetor you have to run, you're not going to buy one out of the box at the parts house, or buy a used one, throw a kit in it, and go fast. You're going to have one of the carburetor guys build you one. From there, tuning isn't that hard, regardless of what it is. If you chose a good carburetor guy, he's going to talk you right through tuning it.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Agreed, realisticaly, I can`t imagine that a pair of heads and an iron Q Jet intake & carb for a 77 Camaro 350 can be that hard or expensive to find, anywhere in North America. It certainly isn`t like trying to find Max Wedge or Hemi cores. To most people, low HP smogger motor stuff is scrap metal value, pricewise.My own car is a 1 year only, stick only combo, yet I was able to easily find 6 pairs of cyl. heads, 4 intakes, and 5 carbs, all the correct number stuff for next to nothing at swap meets, Craigsist, car forums, and wrecking yards. I gotta think there were many many more 77 350 Chevs produced, and likely the head & intakes were also used in other years.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Alan and Rory, I do not disagree with most of everything you said. However, throwing another engine spec into the mix and another class formula is certainly not going to deteriorate the state of the class. And Alan, the point is not that the replacement parts are necessaily better, it's that the parts are not "stock" like Rory's production stuff is. If you spec a small block Gen I 350 Chevrolet with flat top pistons, a .450/.460 camshaft, 062 or 182 Vortec heads and allow a 750 Holley with an unmodified aftermarket manifold, then tag a relatively correct power number to it, what is the difference for tech, for classification or for the competition event?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Actually, my engine is a dished piston version, using Lunati 350-170 slugs. (proper for the 77 350) Camshaft and top end are the big difference in in my engine, and where most of the money was spent of course. Would have been easy enough to swap heads (if not for the expense) but I just checked and the Lunati 350-170 is no longer an NHRA approved piston.

I wasn't trying to piss anyone off with the original post, I just got to wondering if it had ever been considered.

BTW, my ZZ4 Crate uses the exact same heads that a 1990 vette would in Stock eliminator, with 160cc runners, 1.94/1.50 valves, they are far from what everyone stereotypically thinks about CM heads. Just food for thought.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

The All stars run both NHRA and IHRA legal cars

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I wasn't trying to piss anyone off with the original post, I just got to wondering if it had ever been considered.

I heard a few years back that NHRA was considering it.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Dwight, there won't be another class formula, that's the point. If there WERE going to be another class formula, they'd have created it when they allowed the Ford crate motors in new Cobra Jet kit cars that were never sold as a running vehicle at all.

Ford has never shipped a new 428 Windsor in a running car. And yet it isn't in a crate motor class, with its own formula. It's in with real production combinations, regardless of whether or not they've had superseded parts approved, and the production combinations are probably pretty clore to being factored correctly.

The factors won't be correct either, and we all know it. NHRA is evidently unwilling to correctly factor new combinations as submitted, or even get close, so we need to add a bunch of crate motors that they won't factor correctly, and make everything better? Surely you do not believe that will be what happens. And do you REALLY believe that if NHRA were to allow crate motors, we'd see a real increase in the car count?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Alan -
But NHRA did create another formula with the DP and Ford cars. It's just that it is a formula that specifically applies to those combinations. You basically said it yourself that they take paper engines (crate motors) and put them in non-production bodies to make the cars that are now in competition.

My statements and comments are not arguing that NHRA ought to start "crate motor" classes, just that such classes and the cars that are defined by them are totally within the same functional rules and concepts of the whole of Stock Eliminator as it is defined now. It's kind of like when Farmer told me years ago that "stock" is what is in the class guides and what is "legal" is what passes tech. I just don't see the necessity of the vehement remarks that come out from the NHRA guys when IHRA crate motor cars are discussed. NHRA Stock Eliminator is in one perspective just a "formula" category that is only a vague semblance to mostly production automobiles in America.

To address your questions: Will NHRA likely add crate motor classes? Probably not, unless they get financially desperate and think that by tempting IHRA racers they can help the bottom line. If they decided to add crate motor classes, would the car count increase? Probably not that either, unless that becomes an effective way for racers of old car combinations to stay away from the new cars that are being destined to overtake the existing classes.

You comments about the lack of equity in factoring answers itself. That's a moot point as far as I am concerned. We are seeing the most blatent screwing and inconsideration of the Stock Eliminator competitors imaginable. What is going on is the frog in the pot waiting for the water to boil or the Jews being moved to the ghettos in Krakow. The AHFS is designed to not correct the power factors, only to give the semblance that it will. It doesn't even keep up with old, known combinations, much less the new ones that are given such preferential status. The intent is to kill off the old cars gradually, and it is a marketing decision. These guys are looking ten years out and trying to keep their product attractive to a changing audience, and the audience is not the competitors.

Another factor that I hate is that the new cars are so expensive. When the economic statistics of the country support the fact that no more than 2.6% of the population can even afford to build and race a $100,000 race car, Stock Eliminator is beginning to look like polo - eclectic and only for the rich. The fly in the ointment is the Billy Nees and Bob Shaw racers, but how many new racers are being educated into that perspective and mentality? If you can't get old racers to really honor them, so what chance to pass on the wisdom? Even if there were a "move" to more practical and not-ego-driven race car building, NHRA would strategize a way to make them uncompetitive. They have a product to sell, not races to run, and they know that mindless excitement, lust, greed and ego sells races, not true competition.

Sorry for the rant, guys.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Well Dwight, it's not for lack of trying on my end! It seem to me that you and Alan (and others) are always trying to help Racers also.
The biggest problem I have trying to get young people to try Stock and SS is the purse structure. I personally believe the ridiculous purses we are running for is the BIGGEST issue that we face (moreso than the AHFS, new cars, etc.).
How can I convince someone who can go to their local track with a Bracket car that they should try building a "specialty" car, spending 3,4,5 days at some far away track where they'll pay a ridiculous entry fee to be treated like crap and in those 3,4,5 days run one race with a purse that's lower then they are used to running for locally? Exposure? Fame?
We'll get no new blood (other than SLRCs) until NHRA makes it worthwhile for them to try it. We're dead, we just haven't fallen down yet.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Well said. Everybody is worried about how the new cars and thier factors are slaping traditional stockers in the face, and they don't see that NHRA has been straight kicking us in the balls for years with the purse structure. If I wasn't born into this, No way in hell would I be doing it.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I wasn't born into it, but then I'm not just real bright.

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At least IHRA rates the crate motors fairly and puts them in their own class.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

From what I gather, the risk vs reward was worth it years ago when you were doing it and my father started. How many new people have shown up out of nowhere in the last 10 years? I'm willing to bet its less than 1/10th of the people who left the sport.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Billy -
I wholeheartedly agree with what you bring up as another major issue. In fact, I could easily argue that it is THE issue that is molding the future of Stock/SS racing. It is encouraging that regional associations are making progress in making other options for the existing racer population. IHRA is doing some good stuff, too. I do not beleive that the answer is not going to come from NHRA, however. What may be happening is the planets aligning for a good chance for a national level sportsman association/organization/racing venue. It might possibly be a coalition of several regional associations with some of the characteristics that existed for the separate divisions when NHRA first formed - identity, inter-regional competition, few but significant national races. Such an arrangement is easier to fund and likely easier to promote. What is key is a national level governing body for the assurance of consistent competition (national rules management and enforcement agency). When you think about it, NHRA could provide that sanctioning role and rules management, but not be the race company. That would look more like what SEMA does for equipment sanctioning.

Also, it seems that part of an answer lies in getting some program going that could be implemented at the local or semi-local level that would be foundational for supporting broader geographic competition. March Madness would not be as big a deal without the SEC, the Big Ten, etc. and their contests.

Thinking out loud.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Interesting concept about regional S/SS series coming together as "conferences" in 3-5 "national races" with a year-end October Madness....the mistrust of a national group (SRA etc) would be mitigated by the local trust and vetting....couldn't afford an annualized tech crew, but for a handful of national get-togethers I could see paying a recognized tech overseer (Wesley, Travis) to "keep-'em-honest"

A payout could be patterned after the "buy-in" poker series, and/or from dollars saved from NHRA fees

The BIG problem as I see it, is access to the super tracks we have all come to enjoy which I'm afraid we would be locked out of

just dreaming

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Randall & Dwight, I dont think its a dream or a passing thought. As nhra looses its grip and pushes traditional S & SS away we as a large group could then form our own deal. At that point Alex Denysenko type races can be run just like ADRL .

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Bob - I think that support in a smaller venue is more sustainable. The national level races only work when there is a healthy and large pool of participants to attract. The population of racers who are continuing to pour money and time into their operations just to participate at national level races is dwindling rapidly.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Yes, years ago if you won Indy, and had to bomb your record in the final to win, you could build a different car with what you won. Still pays about the number of dollars, but they aren't worth much anymore. Ten grand in 1970 would build another car if you did your own work, and most of us did back then..

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

The purse structure is just another symptom of the systemic disease that is NHRA management. I don't see how anyone can interpret the way NHRA treats class racers as anything other than disdain for a cash cow that they find it necessary to tolerate.

To a degree, I do agree with Billy that part of the reason for the lack of youth involvement is that they can build a cheaper bracket car and race for more money with less hassle and investment. But there's something else going on. The youth of today, in general, have been raised in an environment that discourages them from having any desire for strictly structured competition such as class racing. They'd rather go faster, with less work, and less investment. That's the prevailing attitude for 99% of today's youth that IS involved in motor sports, and it has been for a long time.

I've been working in the business since I was around 18 years old, and I've seen the attitude become more and more common. I think it's really a matter of the development and progress that higher end racing has brought to the aftermarket. Parts that were once found only in Modified, Comp, and Pro Stock, have now become as common as double hump small block Chevy heads and 750 Holley carburetors once were.

When most of us "old school" or "hard core" guys started in this, aluminum heads, shaft rockers, roller cams, billet cranks, and 14:1 compression were the domain of the "big boys". Now, 600 cubic inch 1200HP engines are as common as anything else in the pits. Super Comp and Super Gas are both full of them. "Back in the day", a 140MPH low nine second race car was a rare thing. But now, you can walk through the staging lanes and see near current Pro Stock chassis, and nearly as much HP, in a Super Gas car, that runs high sevens off the stop, and runs 165MPH at 9.90 on the stop.

For the youth of today, there's a ton more allure to that Super Gas car than there is to a killer traditional SS/A car, or even a SS/AH car. And Stock Eliminator? Boys, we ain't even in the ball park. Even the new cars that can run low nines at near150MPH are passe. Very few of them, far fewer than in the past, have any appreciation at all for what goes into a fast class car.

They came into the shop, and their eyes glazed over watching a Stock Eliminator engine going together. No big roller cam, no big Dominator intake, no CNC ported Big Chief heads, no 14:1 pistons. "Boring" they said, as they rolled their glazed eyes and wander off, looking for nitrous and bigger cams.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the entry fees drop substantially, and the purses tripled or quadrupled. In fact, I think that's just a good start. But I do not for a minute believe that if NHRA were to announce next Monday, that, effective immediately, the entry fee for a nation event would drop to a flat $200 for car, driver, and one crew, and the purse for a 64 car or larger field would be $5K to win, that we'd see a dramatic increase in the car count. Let's face it, you can still spend less and win more at a big bracket race weekend like the Tenn/Tuck bracket bash this past weekend. So class racing, for the most part, is never going to compete with bracket racing in that way. There will always be bracket races that pay more for less, and take a lot less work.

I'm not convinced about "ego" being the factor behind what a lot of people race, either. Just to take our own operation as an example, we race two 69 Camaros now. Neither owner is egotistical about going fast or spending money. They both just happen to love 69 Camaros, and they love to go fast. A guy that loves to go fast is going to build a big block upper class car, he's not going to build a 6 cylinder car. So we have a 427 in the AA/SA car, and a 396 in the SS/EA car. For a lot of people, us included, the low ten to low nine second zone is a real "sweet spot".

We had the little G/S 69 Camaro that I drove. And it was fun. No, it wasn't just fun, it was a blast. But if we still had it, odds are, it would have an iron head 396 or a 427 in it. It has nothing to do with ego, it's just that I find it a lot more fun to run low tens and high nines than I do to run elevens. And once you've been faster, until you get to the point where you know you aren't good enough to go that fast anymore, and you know you need to step down, you don't want to go slower.

We've got a ton of friends who have cool slower cars. We love the cars, and we don't feel superior to any of the friends who own them. There must be some sort of perception of "class warfare" in or behind this "ego" thing. Sure, there may be some people who have a big ego and a big wallet, in fact, I'm sure there are. But I'm just as sure that there are a whole lot more who are just "speed junkies", for lack of a better term. I think the latter outnumber the former by 30 to 1 or better.

I just find all the "ego" stuff and the "haves and have nots" stuff to be divisive, and counterproductive, not to mention just plain silly. It's just another wedge driven into the group as a whole, that keeps us from unifying in our own best interests. Like any group, everyone doesn't love everyone. Racers as a whole are a lot less divided than most, we share a lot of common ground. But it seems we sure are willing to let people and things distract us from our real problems.

Honestly, I almost think NHRA revels in our silly divisive attitudes, and while they may not do anything with a specific intent to foster them, I would not be surprised to find that they think that anything that has that side effect to be a bonus.

I don't pretend to have the answers, not by a long shot. I wish I had more and better answers to the problems we face.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I was going to be nice and just ignore this post but its snowing and all my "Crate Motor" parts are at the machine shop so your going to get a blasting...

Crate Motors really came into the picture in IHRA to help sell GM crate engines. They are nothing more than a replacement engine for a muscle car thats over the counter and has a warrenty. So when your tired old 350 295hp motor gives up...you can go to the dealer and purchace a 350 300hp or go for the 330hp 350 that has nothing more than 96 and up GM Vortec PICKUP TRUCK HEADS...yes we race with tow vehicle heads. The cool thing is that Mopar and Ford jumped on board and had their own crate engines...so now we have 60's racing all over again with the big 3. Its not like we are lightly factored either. Have a look at some of the combo's before you even talk about soft factoring.

Im sorry that you are a hard nose die hard stock eliminator racer that cant see outside of rotten cast iron intakes and garbage 40 year old carbs that have the right numbers. This is a thing of the past. I would love nothing more than to go buy a 396 and build it to stock eliminator glory....even a 327 or 350...but the parts are not out there anymore. Go to a local wrecking yard and try to find one of these engines...they are not there. And if you do find a usable core in the local paper they want your first born child to own it. And really what is the difference if they allow crate engines in NHRA? You think it matters when the tree is coming down? No it doesnt. You need to step back and look at the whole picture...never mind heads up runs and "class eliminations"...all stockers weather it be a 350 295hp or a crate 350 330hp ITS A BRACKET RACE....a glorified bracket race with rules and a 30x9 slick. WAKE UP.

Im not interested in having an internet war with you. Im sure your a great guy and everyone wants to give you a high five and hero biscut because you have a real stocker but there are young guys like myself who find it a bit easier to build and find a crate engine. You are right about one thing...we dont buy them at the dealer plunk them in and race. It takes alot of tweeking to make it run just the same as any stocker engine. I only know of one guy who actually bought a crate motor at the dealer and then took it apart and changed it over to run stock. I take pride in the combo I run and alot of my friends also run the crate combos and love it.

So instead of bashing and talking about something you really dont know much about...talk to some "crate engine" racers and ask us about it instead of not allowing us to play in your sand box. If IHRA folds up we would have nowhere to go...and im not going to build a complete new combo to race NHRA. And its not like there is only 6 guys in the world who race crate motor...there is thousands. So instead of being bias and saying "NO WAY THIS CANT HAPPEN" think outside the box a little bit brother!

Geesh...you guys dont even complain this much about a stocker with a power adder;)

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

It's not likely at all to happen, but due to NHRA not wanting to add classes. Not guys here not liking them.

I still don't understand building a car limited to either association alone.

Like some bracket racers around here that run an 1/8th mile track at home, gearing the car too low to run 1/4 mile. Why would anybody do that?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Blast away if it makes you feel good, I could care less.

If you can't find parts to build a 396/375, or a 255/350, you just aren't looking. Sorry, I'm not buying that line. It's a crock. I can go out and drag up all of the heads, cranks, intakes and carburetors to build either in a couple of days. Anyone that can't just isn't looking.

When we had the G/S car, I ended up with an extra set of the good 441 heads, an intake, and 3 carburetors, almost by accident. I passed on 2-3 steel cranks. We didn't even have the car for more than a year, and I had enough stuff I found just fooling around AFTER the car was bought to build another complete engine. I didn't even have $300 in all of the castings and carburetors, and could have had the cranks for $100 each.

You don't even have to hunt for anything to build a 396 now, GM sells the new replacement heads and intakes, Quickfuel sells the carburetors, Dart is even making a run of 396 blocks. There are 3-4 companies that have all of the 6223 cranks you can use, or call Bullet, they have them prepped and ready to go. So the whine about finding parts for a 396 is a complete joke. You can buy it all over the counter just like a crate motor. So, yeah, if you want to take the easy route, and be sure you have a place to race, you can do it. There's you a "crate motor" that fits in a regular class, so you're just clean out of excuses snow. You don't even have to get your hands dirty, open the classifieds, or do anything but pick up the phone. Jeg's or Summit will deliver most of it to your door, and you can take it to the machine shop just like your 330-350.

And if you DON'T want to build one all aftermarket, 454 blocks are everywhere, have one sleeved, it's been done that way for years. You can buy an original 163 intake on ebay for $200 or less. A 3310 Holley you can buy new, or buy one of the old ones off ebay. You can find 840 heads on ebay for under $1k, all you have to do is open your eyes and look. The same pieces will build you a 427, just don't sleeve the block down.

I was working on crate motors before they ever GOT to IHRA, for other racing series, you ain't telling me anything about crate motors I don't already know.

If it makes you feel better, go ahead and blast some more, I can take it just fine. Some of us DO care about class eliminations and heads up racing. And most of us with any common sense at all see that NHRA is not at all likely to put crate motors in their own classes. They just took the fuel injected cars OUT of their own classes, and put them in the original classes. And they put the new Ford crate motor cars in the regular classes, too.

Think outside the box? Are we going to find a new paradigm too? I just love cliches, they're so useful. How about we fix what is INSIDE the box FIRST, before we go outside the box or dump a bunch more stuff in it? There's a new paradigm for you.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Just curious
Since you are from Canada where do you race that?
Are you a class racer or a weekend racer at a local track?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

i'm a younger guy too, and couldn't disagree with you more

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

CrateCamaro, I agree with what you say about the attitude that frequently is displayed here. Nobody really thinks or promotes the idea that somebody can go to the dealer, buy a motor out of stock, put it in a car and go competitive racing. The advantage of being able to build a motor with commonly available parts that can be serviced easily is attractive to many people who are not personally capable. Having the option of a list of additional motors for more optional classes sounds exciting to me. That makes some cars more attractive that are currently restricted to a single production engine.