Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Is there a person in the NHRA or IHRA that is availible 24-7 to answer a tech question that tech officials are not in agreement on during a race? Kinda like an on duty director that could make a judgement call, an end of the line tech official. Or is (Bruce or Pat NHRA) and (Hank or Mike IHRA) that person and availible 24-7 under a secret number? Is there a master rule book/on line progran that gets much more involved, and deeper into the subject matter. I always hear the east coast, west cost rule book thing. Also the fact that people run things for years and get thru tech, then all of a sudden....can't use that! WTH! It seems like there would be a "master manual" (for tech officials) to help standardize and provide consistancy to minimize an incorrect interpitation of a rule. It would be nice to call in a question to D-1 and get the exact same answer from D-7. If they had a master program in print or online for the tech officals....it could be that way. And it should be that way, because D-1 folks race in D-7 and vis-versa. In defense of the tech departments, there is so much to know with S and S/S. There needs to be a place to go for the true facts. Also updates, rule changes, amendments, and tech bulletins could be viewed in just a few seconds online. I feel this would level the playing field, and allow the racers to proceed with more confidence in the rules enforcement. What's not to like?

Wade Mahaffey

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Great idea, Wade!

Now let's see who steps up to make it a reality!

Lew

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Good luck with that one..lol rule book says subject to change on a LOT of the pages...
DW your" un-official"......

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

A rulebook is subject to interpretation by the tech officials and racers alike. I think it's impossible to make wording that would cover all situations. It's like the tax code...all interpreted in different ways. And it's all legal until you get caught! lol

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Wade, I think some of the Tech guys live for the "gray areas" of the rulebook. What can you do......get a letter of approval for every nut bolt and washer on your car?
I like the concept that you propose and I think Wesley could handle that job, but he doesn't deserve the grief. It's going to take a real glutton for punishment and a strong personality to take that job. TP

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

I think it would be tough for sure. The way Wesley explained it to me "If the rule book does'nt say you can.....you can't". This would alleviate the gray area because the rule book would have to say you can directly. The issue with that would be, the ability to be innovative. And in most cases at the upper end of innovation means $$$$. I just feel that if a racer was to bring something new to the table that had not been seen by tech before, it would be nice if a supreme ruling could be made. And if it was accepted, a revised/adjusted rule could be put into the master book and/or online for all tech officials to view. This would just be an attempt to keep everyone on the same page as far as rules enforcement!

Wade Mahaffey

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Key words in the rulebook are "any" and "only". I personally wouldn't have a problem with the aluminum 3rd members for 9" Ford users, and, so what if it is aftermarket. That's what this industry is driven by....the aftermarket!
But.....if the 2011 Drag Packs can use a Ford 9" does that allow all Mopar racers that option? If Tech is getting spread too thin then maybe they need to pick their battles and start by the using the word "any" a little bit more in the rulebook.

When was the last time someone collected protest money? Just curios.

TP

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

As far as safety there should never be any grey areas, but from a mechanical standpoint there are so many different cars and combinations I sure it is very difficult to cover any and all situations. I think NHRA has done as much as they can when it comes to engine specs for each combo ... from runner volumes, valve sizes, stroke, bore, piston/rod weight, (things you can measure) but after that some things you just can't measure and put in the rule book. Those other specs are left up to interpretation by each tech. I am not saying this is right or wrong, but those are the facts. Hence, left coast, right coast rules.

What I would like to see for any 'ruling' or interpretation by any tech person would be that they should fill out some kind of form or paper work defining the situation or infraction, what they ruled and why and file it in a NHRA data base for future reference. Then they could review this data base info and come up with more of a base line for setting the rules. Over time they could minimize the 'grey areas'. But this takes time and effort and I am not sure they have the staff or time to do it.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

There is no performance advantage to the aluminum chunk ,other than a few pounds that will have to be made up anyway. ...So why not allow them.
The "9"inch housing some Drag Pak cars are using only utilizes the housing stamping . It has a different mounting flange that accepts the Mopar 8 3/4" aluminum chunk [good luck getting one!], not the Ford 9'" chunk.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Wade, Very good idea but Glendora, now Indy and there lies another problem. Where will Danny be ? The way I see it 2 of the best, Travis Miller and Wesley Robenson have been belittled, forced to change their decisions and had their pay cut. When you have 2 tech men with the knowledge of these 2 have why not use them ? Instead they are pushed farther away. Wesley had more info on HP for the AHFS but was removed from the committee. I do not think NHRA can handle a national scale rule book when it comes to Stock and SS, there pick of the week check at national events is about as far as they can go. Real tech done at Indy often is changed by Danny, if the head guy runs the ship and continues to do so Stock and SS are doomed, the rules have been diluted to a point of no return.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

In this day and age NHRA could easily have someone sitting in Glendora with an internet connection and the guy in tear down can take a pic or vid and sametime it to Glendora and have an imediate answer. Glendora could file the incident and recall it anytime it should arise or make it avalable to the next guy in teardown that has the same question.

We do things like this at work all day long.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Tom! Shame on you! You (of all people) know better. What about the difference between (and the effects of) sprung and unsprung weight? The chunk is below the spring attaching points so it is being dragged not carried down the track.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

All the B.S. about the aluminum 9" center section is just more silliness. It's a few pounds of unsprung weight, that allows for that weight to be moved.

It's like aluminum radiators. The weight advantage itself is negligible, at best, and anyone wanting that weight advantage can find it elsewhere.

Anyone notice Pond slowing down when they made him take his out? I'm betting Ken won't slow down, either.

I suppose a racer were to have an aftermarket 9" housing that had 12 bolt Chevy parts in it, THAT would be a valid issue for tech.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Alan, you probably feel the same way about the negligible affect of aftermarket seats in Stock too.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Billy, with the advent of 135 MPH cars in Stock Eliminator, I think the safety aspects outweigh the other factors. It's called a "necessary evil". The fast cars in Stock now have to have all of the safety equipment that a fairly fast Super Stock car has. It's not a matter of what you or I want, or what you or I like, it's a matter of safety.

It's a plain simple fact that you can make a Stock Eliminator car as close to perfect on weight distribution as it can legally be without any of those things.

People howl over things that don't matter, while they look over things that do matter. A case of the elephant in the living room.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

There are a couple of ways to look at what they nhra tech did to Ken.
One was they could have told him to change it when he got home. I believe this would have been the right thing to do.
But they could have let him go through tech, then after qualifying. Tossed him. I've had that done to me. At least Ken had a chance to fix it before the race.
The only thing nhra tech has been successful with is nitpicking. I went through it last year with my front fenders.
What happened to all the hooplah about the runner cc's?

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Another question, If NHRA would have told him to change it by the next race ,would Ken have told everybody that , or would it not be mentioned till it was set as an example ? If Ken would not have said anything now ,this would still be a little secret. I respect Ken for telling it so it would not happen to others......I also think Ken would have told it if he was given til the next race. You have my respect Ken...This is two ways of looking at it from both sides. Shady rule as you say anyway....

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

[QUOTE=Alan Roehrich;244948

People howl over things that don't matter, while they look over things that do matter. A case of the elephant in the living room.[/QUOTE]

And on that, I will have to agree with you!
Now, let's start a "meaningful dialog" on the pathetic purses!

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

If it did indeed happen the other week with another car, why didn't they just issue a bulletin, a rule clarification? If one guy does it, there are probably more out there either effected, or people considering the upgrade to their car. They should just let everyone know where they stand on the issue and be done with it. It shouldn't have taken Kenny to bring this to light.

As for the rule itself, NHRA says "same manufacturer" and then backtracks when THEY allow the manufacturer to run things in Stock that shouldn't be there in the first place.

$.02,

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Billy, the problem is that it will not be meaningful to NHRA, the people who set the purse and the fees.

But as an example, for a 64 car field in Stock Eliminator, the payout should be $2500 to win. And the entry fee really ought to be $250 for car, driver, and one crew. That would be a payout of ten times the entry fee. For an 100 car field, it ought to be $3000, that would be twelve times the entry fee. At 128 cars, it should pay at least $3750. As the field gets bigger, so should the purse. That's a start, and not at all unreasonable.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

EXACTLY! NHRA should have issued a tech bulletin, published online and in the Dragster, clarifying the rule. And if they don't do it next week, you can be sure they're holding off so that they don't have to apply it in a case where they don't want to. THAT is a problem I have with all of this.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

When they told me at E'town last year not to come back with my fenders. They sent a formal letter to me and CC it to all division directors. It was quite an embarassment to me. All over a couple of holes in fenders that had inner fenderwells and was absolutly no aerodynamic or performance advantage.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Great post Michael (spelled your name correctly) LOL, this organization called NHRA developed these classes called stock and super stock a long time ago. It should have been their responsibility to make known to all members what is legit and what is not, what is acceptable and what is not. To clerify or not to clerify, they have had years and years to put this in place. No one at NHRA has taken this and run with it, tech seems to always be a mystery, what are they looking for this week or next week. Publish on line or in Dragster what they found and whether or not it is acceptable or not, then everyone (including us members) would be on the same page.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

X 2 Ken is and always has been a straight up guy.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Alan, Chuck, Michael, I have ALWAYS believed that the rules are intentionally left vague because NHRA does not want us "all on the same page". THAT would give us all something in common to fight for.
Anarchy is a very effective form of control!

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Damn....I KNEW you were cheating....The acid dipping made holes in your fenders LOL.....Im just kidding Art. They (NHRA) have treated you (and Ray) in a chicken s##t way on lots of occasions. Especially the deck height ruling a few years ago. What crap !

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Tech is a major pain in the butt for NHRA with the stock and S/S cars. It takes a lot of man hours to keep up with all of whats going on today. Its not as easy as when the "Farmer" was doing it when there were less classes and less engine combos to keep up with.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

The fenders were on my Neon they were fiberglass I tried to acid dip them but my acid must not have been strong enough. I'll have to have a talk with my drug dealer.
On our Challenger Greg used to personally test our fenders for chemical cleaning. He would put his or Marty Barret's bellies on them. If they din't bend they were good to go.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Terry I agree with you, and it is their show, but let's face it, they opened up this can of worms by allowing all of these enhancements that we have today. Enforcing these enhancements has made it very difficult for the tech guys, who I think do a great job and put in a lot of hours. Just like trying to reduce the deficit, putting this type of program in place would take time and probably more people.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

LOL....Yeah I remember both of those guys doing that. I thought they were testng the front springs of the cars also. They would each take a fender and talk about a guys carb for what seemed like days....LOL Marty could really push a cars front end down. I bet he didnt lean on very many Z-11 or MoPar Alum. fenders back in the day.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

I agrre but we know NHRA/IHRA wont or cannot afford expend the resources to do this. We can only hope.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

The problem is for the most part you do not have many that will use common sense.
When They tossed me for the pistons being down the bore. I was told that I could pickup more piston to valve that way (PS I could spin the cam with the piston at TDC and not hit).
I asked why then could I run any thickness and up to 2 head gaskets. I was told it wasn't the same thing.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Most of the "enhancements" have been allowed because NHRA didn't want to look for them in tech to see if they were there when they weren't legal. Of course, racers who didn't want to take stuff apart for tech inspection and complained about doing it didn't help, either.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Terry I hope you understand and I will clerify my comments, they are not directed at the tech guys themselves but at NHRA/IHRA who puts the policies, process and guidelines in place for the tech guys to follow. By setting up this type of system (which should have been done years ago), the tech guys would have an easier job of understanding and enforcing the rules. In addition, when the tech guys find an infraction and do the right thing, IHRA/NHRA should be behind them and support that decision. Unfortunately we know where that stands .. I go back to 2003 when we were at St. Louis and a good friend of mine was protested and had to tear down on raceday. The tech guys said no, the rule book makes it clear for protests, they were over ruled by the higher ups and he had to tear down anyway, with no possible way of making 1st round.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

Yes I understand. The instance with your friend sounds like some back door back slapping went on. I have seen how some racers were treated differently in the past at NHRA events. That is probably how the cylinder head and intake mess got out of hand when it was first being done. I also was up against the upper management the last couple of years I worked for IHRA. Now you see what we have.

Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock
 

I think that part of the problem is from people calling their lawyer when they got caught with enhanced parts and got NHRA to back down. now they don't dare toss people even though Ray Charles could tell they had been worked.