What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
With all the respect in the world, I ask what would Stock and Super/Stock be if there was not a threat of random teardowns at national events? Would the veteran racers just throw in the towell and car counts get choked completely out? Or would the car counts go up because folks that could'nt play the high dollar game now can? Because they don't look at your stuff like they used too. I hear folks talk about how soft tech has gotten since the old days. And the problems with the AHFS program. It seems like life in general, accountibility and responsibility is not what it used to be! Would no offical/random teardowns be OK if you could still protest, post money, and trigger an offical teardown? Since the eliminator is mostly comprised of mixed classes racing each other on a dial-in (bracket mode), What if you could only protest a (same class) competitor? It seems to me that this would leave the slow guys alone. Who would want to teardown the -.3 under cars engine? Who would take a chance of throwing away say a grand, for something that's probably right. The fast guys would get protested and then torndown to prove they were fast. And if they are fast...they want to prove it! Why fill the barn with -.3 cars (random style) when you could provide more space for the -1.00 cars
Also the small time racer could bend the rules a little to be able to race and build the car count. He could fly under the radar @ -.3 until he got greedy...and caught! I think this could bring more competitors into the mix. And the fast guys with the deep pockets and/or ability and experience could still prove it to each other. I think this would soften up the entry level competitors issues. For the diehard class guys you could keep the teardowns as is for class wins. Just thinking of ways to increase car counts fellas....don't get nervous! LOL Wade Mahaffey |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Wade, first, as the price of fuel rises you will find that nothing can increase car counts. All racing will eventually become local racing. Second, let me get this straight, you're saying let the .02,.03 under guys slide on tech but the 1.00+ under guys must adhere to the rules just on the chance they might get torndown? Well, that ain't workin for me! I don't want to get put on the trailer by anyone that's not legal. IMHO, that's kinda like being in an accident with an unlicensed driver, no matter whose fault the accident is, it's HIS fault because he didn't belong there in the first place. I get beat by an index runner that's not legal and gets away with it then I've been beaten by somebody who didn't belong there in the first place.
My answer to the title of your thread would have to be, the 1.00+ under guys would eventually be running like F.A.S.T. cars and .02, .03 under guys would be running, flat hood, looks stock, 9" tires. |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Wade, I've had more than one well respected tech guy tell me they found at least 3 times as many illegal cars in the bottom half of the field as they have in the top half.
What Stock and Super Stock would be without random tear downs is an easy question. They would be a joke, a hollow shell of their former selves. Worse off by far than they already are. Car counts are down because of the economy and the way NHRA treats the racers. We're about to pay $4 a gallon for diesel, the cost to go to the Gators, if we go, will be $1K in diesel alone. They jacked our entry fee, and our insurance charge, again, fees are up for the 3rd year in a row. They added a $250 fine for any leakage on the track. The contingency payout has shrunk. The regular purse payout has not gone up in so long no one can remember the last date, but I'm thinking a decade. We're the first cars cut from the run sheet due to ANY problems, weather, oil downs, etc, we get shorted a pass. They'll send us into eliminations with ONE PASS, on a green track, that may or may not even hook. We have to get there 1-2 days before the event, or park 90 miles from nowhere, probably in a bad pit space where the truck, trailer, or car, or all three, might sink or flood if it rains. And if the race runs over, we're the ones who lose an extra day of work because we get held over until Monday. If they need to cheat to run 3 tenths under the index, they need to consider another hobby. Tear downs are the least of anyone's worries. And if they are worried about being legal, they need to tear down anyway. The last thing we need to do is further reduce and dilute the performance part of the performance based classes. Too much of that has already been done. |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
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Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Alan and Billy, I understand your passion and it's a beautifull thing. I don't know either of you personally, but respect your seniority in the sport. I look at it like this: compromise during tough times to keep it alive. I would give a little, to keep from losing the whole thing. Then ride the rough time while looking for ways to improve. Isn't that what the Stock, Super/Stock combo races are about. There is no teardown at those events, It's no heads-up and a dial-in. Now the car counts are becoming about the same, but the swing is toward the combos. There must be something folks like about it, maybe it's just aggravation mitigation! LOL
Wade Mahaffey |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
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If you want to do this go to your local track every weekend.It's called bracket racing.Been around a long time. Ben Franklin's quote,actually about liberty,comes close to compromising on S/SS rules is right on the mark Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Wade, there are no teardowns at Divisionals except for Nat'l records and now there's a cap on them,for the most part.
Those entries are way down too. I can't see where no teardowns at Nat'l would do anything except bring us even closer to Bracket II |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
It sounds like to me that the combo's cost less to enter and pay almost what the sanctioned race does with less BS and "enhancements". If the NHRA does not wake up they will have lost their cash cow.
As these guys have said before, it may not be fixable. |
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It is not the lack of heads up races and the lack of tear down that make the combo races popular. It's the way the racers are treated. |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Tear downs are no fun at all plain and simple. If your setting a record that is your chose.
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Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Back in the day.............When my father won a national event at a AHRA or IHRA national event Vance Brady of AHRA would walk over and congratulate you and then tell you before we do winner circle pictures, we need a head off and then you can party as the winner.
But that was back in the day. |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Most of the old Mopars have at least a couple of combos that are pretty easy to get 3 or 4 under on a budget. The challenge is starting with zero data base on stock eliminator racing. If we go out of our way to help new racers with a little help and encouragement....... it can not hurt. In the early 90's I remember Jess Suter letting me look at his suspension when no one else would let me near their cars. I remember the Etters helping me with Cams and Carbs in the same period. Larry Maxwell at my first race and again whenever I needed took the time to show me the right direction. Most of them got criticized by other racers for their trouble. If it was not for a little kindness they showed ..... I would have gone back to bracket racing again!
If you see a new guy.......take a few minutes to introduce yourself and help them....It is good for the Eliminator. If anyone Ever needs any help or advise: just Message me or my boys and we will get your car to run under on a budget....may take me a week sometimes (Health) but happy to help. We have been down four times in the last year with our stockers (once voluntarily when setting record). Nobody really enjoys it......especially in the rain or bad weather. But it is pretty much always been part of how the deal works if you want to run Stock/SuperStock! Irving Family Racing |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Wade,
Come race with us before you try to change things ? Forget Nationals, they will be a thing of the past in a couple of years ... As Mark or Ed said , there are very few tear downs @ Div. & opens. As Ed said, thats why you have bracket racing, no-rules, race any car, motor, buttons, slicks, etc... Has anyone ask why wondered why Stk & S/S racers keep coming back , inspite of all the complaints ? Wade, please don't take it personal, but everyone keeps trying to change things to their own agenda ... As I said before this is going to be a tough year for racing, unless you have a big sponsor ? Racer's , have been upset with NHRA & IHRA before the lose of Jobs, now with gas prices going to 4-5 dollars a gallon for tow rigs... ($10-18 for race gas) not counting entry fees, hotels, food, etc ... Not doom & Gloom, just real facts that effect how racers will have to balance their schedule ... This is what is driving the low numbers @ Nationals not tear-downs. One last thing about teardowns , we all know of racers who have never been torn down in 10-15 years ? Other racers get torndown 4-5 times a year, how does everyone gets torndown at least once a year sound ? ... That way everyone get to share the Fun !!! To be continued ........................... Wade, how's the Vette coming ? |
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Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Billy,
You are right On about the teardowns , but its nice to keep them honest ..... |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
Please excuse me fellas, I'm not trying/wanting to change things for I have no dog in the fight. But I am building an entry and would just like to see Super/Stock racing still around when I get done. I don't have any hate or bottled-up anger at NHRA, IHRA, fuel cost, enhancements etc. I've got plenty eggs, and there all in different baskets. If Super/Stock is dead when I get there, I won't miss a beat. There's plenty I can do with my machine. As far as the economy, I see it as just having to put forth more effort to do something I like. I've worked two jobs my whole adult life, and am now retired from one of them. I will be bracket racing alot using a mule engine with simular power to get up to speed and comfortable in the seat. I gotta get used to looking thru the back window.
Dave, thanks for asking about the Corvette. I am currently repairing all the little stress cracks from over the years. I did some little "Bonneville" inhancements, not modifications to the factory body though. It's comming along and I can see a light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not a head light)LOL Wade Mahaffey |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
I'm one of the cars that can only go maybe 2-3 under on a good day, but I carry a spare head gasket with me all the time for a tear down. (hoping I'm not asked though) Not worried about it, it wouldn't be my first time to the barn. I'm in agreement that even the slower cars in qualifying needs to be look at.
Casey Miles 248H Stock |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
There is very little risk of teardown as it is, if we take that away, we might as well be "unleashed". my 2 cents.
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James, There in is where nhra wants to go, no engines to check. Only a safety inspection and done. As a group we better watch what we ask for or your going to be unleashed alright.
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Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
With respect to the teardown issue. My thought was to have teardown, but by protest and not random. This way funds could be generated to help off set officals cost and thus, more officials. A portion of the cost for officials to do the teardown would be paid by the protest fee, (if the car is found legal). If the car is found illegal (not correct) the racer is fined and that money is used to pay the officals cost. And the protester gets his money back. When the teardown is done notes/specs will be placed in a file and the engine will be sealed. If the seal is broken it is subject to protest again. If the seal is not broken the car is not subject to an engine check for one year. This will keep racers from picking on the fast guy all the time. The racers could then police themselves, and no one could escape the barn. Several racers could go together and share the protest cost.
Wade Mahaffey |
Re: What would S, S/S be without teardowns at Nats?
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I myself have never bitched about the competition. If someone is doing something I am not I can change my stuff or quit. And seals can be duplicated very easily. Years ago we won the E'town race. Then the Molson race in Canada the next week. We came apart both times after the race. |
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