Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

If we can only have 5 in division races why not run 2 races in one weekend to make one up?

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Mickey I posted under div 1 about calling them and my rant.Are you going to Fayetville next weekend or are u no longer running stock.What is your profession now days Pro Golfer,Porn Star or Proffesional actor .I always got a good laugh when they would announce you and your proffesion at the races :)

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Because, no better than the management of Division 2 is, they do well to get one division race done in a weekend. I'm not sure they could get 2 done if they started on Thursday morning.

Now, I'm not referring to the people that work at the races, the Division 2 staff guys and gals that actually work directly with us are great.

We could have more than 5 LODRS events. It's just that our division is as poorly run now as it was before.

You know, people keep saying Bruton Smith won't have LODRS events at his tracks, apparently referring to Bristol and Charlotte. But if memory serves correct, Las Vegas is a Bruton Smith track. :eek:

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

In all fairness I'll bet most of the schedule was set before the new director got here.
I think we ought to give the guy a chance to straighten out what was screwed up in the past.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

True Alan but the Las Vegas LODRS event usually gets between 8 and 9 hundred entries - they have classes most of us haven't yet heard of .........

Artie -- I agree - give the new guy a chance before you hang 'em .

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Its too late for me Im gonna represent Div 4 there loss!!!

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Art,
Supposedly Bill left around the end of August, or at least some time in September, since he wasn't in Atlanta. The new guy was named 2 months ago, on the 15th of September.

The new guy was pretty much a ghost at Reynolds. And I'm betting he'll be a yes man for Glendora, and little will change in Division 2. A guy who is truly dedicated to changing things and getting the job done would have been out meeting racers constantly at his first race. And that was a month ago, a month before the schedule was announced.

If he actually knew anything about racing and racers, and he gave a damn about them, he'd have been out in the staging lanes and the pits meeting and greeting them. That's what people who hustle and do good things are all about. You don't have to look for them, if you're their customer (and Division 2 racers ARE his customers) they'll come and find you.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

amen

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

I'm with Art and Jack on this one...one of our tech officials at Reynolds told me he seems a very reasonable guy but it may be a while before he has the true latitude to make his mark. But if I lived in TN, MS, AL I'd run D3 or 4, only makes logistical sense. The D2 schedule fits snowbirds to a tee but I also hoped for Bristol (or Charlotte) Divisional to make it more geographical representative. It's almost like NHRA concedes NC,SC, and VA to IHRA or D1....

I am a bit curious as to how they convinced SGMP to fund the alcohol purse...they'll have to draw a boat load of cars and spectators to break even.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Jack, if our Division Director had been worth a damn, there could have been more than enough cars to support LODRS races at Bristol, as well as Charlotte, as both tracks can easily draw from at least one or two other Divisions. Bristol can easily draw from both 1 and 3, and Charlotte can draw from 1 easily, and there are plenty of racers from 3 that would go to Charlotte as well.

The Division management has to want it badly enough to go get it done, and they didn't, and probably still don't.

We have 5 races, all in two states, in a Division that serves seven states. There is ZERO excuse for that. Division 2 racers have been begging for a 7 race schedule for years, along with some races outside of Florida and Georgia (Atlanta or further south). We've had extra classes at our division races, too.

Honestly, they just made our schedule twice as bad as it was. More conflicts with other divisions, and more races stacked on top of each other, requiring either a lot more driving, or a lot more time off from work, or both. In this economy, they have you racing two weekends in a row, three times in eight weeks. They done nothing but kill off more potential car count, making the races less profitable for the track owners, and making it even harder to run for the racers. They've done more of exactly what most racers asked them to do less of. That's a real slap in the face for paying customers.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

James, SGMP now has the best date on the calendar for Dv. 2, the week before the Gators. This was the date Orlando had for many years and always had a successful race without alcohol cars.




Hey Dan Moore, you're #1. :D

RIP Mark Graham

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

That's not what I heard from some people I know. Here's the deal. The guy took over a poorly run Division with an extremely unpopular director. He had the Division 3 director there to run the show. He took ZERO time to meet and greet his new customers (outside of some alcohol, Top Sportsman, and maybe Comp racers), when one of the very first things he SHOULD have been doing is to get out there and present himself as the future of the division. Taking ten minutes with every class as they were called to the lanes, with a handful of business cars, shaking the hand of every racer he could get to, introducing himself, thanking them for being there, and giving them a business card while asking them to come to him with their needs, wants, and suggestions. Anything less is just not doing the job, plain and simple. And all he did was meet a few of the people in classes that DON'T pay the bills. He's in a big hole just taking the job over, and needed to get started digging out of it immediately. He had three days of good weather to get the job done and he never even got started.


Division 2 DOES concede it to IHRA and Division 1, that's been the problem for years. We have fewer races in the Division than in any other Division, and fewer than we've had in a long time.

They gave them a race earlier in the season, with one less race before them, and one less race over all in the Division. So they have a better opportunity to draw more cars. Especially since they're the race BEFORE the Gators, instead of two or more weeks AFTER the Gators. They'll get the crowd coming down and tuning up for the Gators, instead of the left overs after most of the Division 1 cars have gone home after the Gators, and everyone is out of vacation time.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Alan I disagree with you. He was not hired soley to be a public relations guru, or a liason between racers and NHRA he is the top guy in the division.
I raced division one for years and never remember Darwin Doll coming around and greeting racers

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

All good points Alan, with the new director having a marketing background I would have thought the same as you about getting off to a good start....my only thought is that everybody goes into a new situation differently, some go in slow and easy to make sure they understand the lay of the land while others might charge in a bit more aggressively. But think we all want the guy to succeed ultimately and I'm trying to maintain a postive outlook. I think Art was correct in suggesting the schedule was handed to him without any real chance to alter it...the current D2 schedule sucks, there is no sugar coating that one. It works good for snowbirds and a few others and largely ignores most of the racers within D2, I can't defend that one. A D2 racer really going after the points is going to log a ton of miles but doubt the D6, D7, etc racers have much sympathy for us given what they do to chase points. It is what it is and we wait for the other shoe to drop out of Glendora concerning rules/classes.

As to SGMP, I knew that with Carl not conceding on the Alcohol deal then his attractive early year date being 'open' would entice but just didn't think it would convince them. Sincerely hope you're right about them having a good car count. 2011 could very well be a 'make or break' year for NHRA class racing.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Amazing that they use to run Blaney all in one day and that was when the Pros still raced at the division races.
Bob Rice

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

They must be in that West Coast Rule Book, too.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

They could get more done if they did'nt do 6 TT like they did at Atlanta.

I say give the new guy a chance.
Chip Johnson
SST 2011

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

I never said he was hired solely to be a public relations "guru".

Did Darwin Doll take over a train wreck like Division 2, from a guy who ran things like Bill Holt?

Without racers, there's no need for the Division. Take a look at the number of races in Division 2. Take a look at the car count. Take a look at the number of member tracks, and the general health of the Division.

One thing is for sure, if only the classes he seemed to have time for at Reynolds showed up at the Division 2 LODRS events next year, it'd be the last year they'd have any LODRS races. The "prestige" of having an LODRS race only goes so far, they can only afford to lose a certain amount of money. If the regular car count drops much more, while they require the tracks to host the "free entry" classes, and pay their purses, Division 2 won't even have 5 races next year.

Running the Division entails getting races on the schedule, and racers to the races, as well as making the races actually happen. That hasn't been happening in Division 2. The Division Director answers to Glendora, the racers of the Division, and the member tracks. At least to some extent, the Division Director works for the racers who pay the bills.

One of the main reasons Division 2 is in the poor shape that it is in is because the racers tolerated Bill Holt and his attitude for far too long. If we allow the division to accept some minute improvement, or no improvement at all, over what we had with Bill Holt, then we deserve the crappy division we'll get because of it.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

They pretty much did Bowling Green in two days back then, and it was already the tune up race for Indy.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Alan -- Very interesting point that you have races in two states in a division that serves seven - first thing I would do is ask your new director why and why not more -- but you must remember that Rome wasn't built in a day - it may take him a while to get his sea legs but you never know - there are some good directors out there - we here in D1 have Director Lang and for the most part are very happy with him .Another point is in my opinion you'll never have an eight hundred car field in your division - but that's just my opinion and i've been wrong many times before .

Start off but sending the new director a line or two and see what happens ........and be nice - why get off on the wrong foot with him ! ! !

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

To many "CIRCUS SIDE SHOWS" today to get everything done on time. The stock S/S racer is getting the short end of it.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Jack,
I don't know if we can get an 800 car field at a Division 2 race or not. But I also don't believe that you need 800 cars to generate a profit. Although I do fully understand the drain on profits that Slop Alcohol causes. Without counting Slop Alcohol, we now have about 8 classes, so we probably could generate a 600 car field. With one car/driver + 1 crew being the average, a 600 car field generates around $120K in entry fees alone. That's if you never sell a hot dog, hamburger, coke, bag of ice, or spectator ticket. That's also figuring you don't have any "gambler's races" or anything of that sort.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Alan you're correct - you don't need an eight hundred car field to generate a profit - but some other points must be considered - there are big entry fees but the other stuff doesn't exist much anymore - ie-spectator tickets - forget them as we proved here in D1 this year at Englishtown ----------------- PC Richards gave out more than sixty thousand free tickets and the joint was empty and as for food sales they have gone downhill since we started to use motorhomes .T-shirts - maybe .Ice -- more where you're located than here .Some revenue can be made with gamblers but we don't have time at our events much because we do get 500-600 cars so its a catch 22 . I noticed you don't care much for Alcohol cars but in our division at some events that the only thing that brings fans so ............Do you remember when Top Fuel - Funny Car - Pro Stock were run at divisional events ? And they still got it done .........

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Jack,
My problem with alcohol cars is that we have 4-6 car fields, maybe 8 car fields, at most of the races, and half the time a lot of them can't get down the track without making a mess of things. The track owners have to pay 1/2 a field a full purse, schedule the race around them, and they don't pay an entry fee or bring spectators. The stands are just as empty, if not more, when the alcohol cars run. They aren't all bad, don't get me wrong. I just think they should pay an entry fee like the rest of us, and maybe they need to have some sort of oil down/clean up penalties as well.

Yes, if you look at one of my earlier posts, I referred to Bowling Green having a pro show at the division race and getting done in two days. I think it was 1980 we had about 8 cars in each of the pro classes at Bowling Green, if I remember correctly, the Pro Stock final came down to Dyno Don Nicholson in the Kendig/TransGo Mustang II losing to Joe Satmary in the Satmary and Cannon "Tuff Rabbit" Camaro. Those were the days. But they're long gone.

Weather permitting, we could probably have a "gambler's race" on Friday and Saturday night, and maybe even a Top Stock show (depends, it won't happen with the factory cars there).

It's a struggle for the track owners to even begin to turn a profit. But if they'd got the car counts up by scheduling more races and doing a better job, if nothing else we could help them cut their losses some. I'd like to see the track owners get a better deal as well as the racers.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

If a track owner knows how to promote a divisional event, they can put butts in the seats and dollars in their pockets. Bandimere does so on a regular basis for their divisionals with a marketing partnership with Grease Monkey. I've seen the front gate bring in 10,000 to 15,000 people a number of times. While they do own/operate some of their concessions, the real cash cow for the front gate is, they charge for parking...and people pay it when they're getting free or 2-4-1 tickets. The primary focus of their advertising is the alcohol cars. People will show up to see those cars race if they know they are racing that weekend.

The points race at Norwalk this year was the first time they've ever had to turn people away at the gate - no more room for spectators. On Saturday, the place had more spectators than I've seen at their national events. They did it with a marketing partnership with Summit, booked in a few jets, and advertised the heck out of it. For every $1 pound of ice cream they sold (at a slight loss), they also sold many more hot dogs, burgers, sodas and beers at high profit margins.

I know some would like to see "the leakers" go away completely at the divisional events. Especially some track owners. That is understandable because they haven't figured out a way to cover the purse. Many folks complain about how some events have become more of a "circus" than a race. A little bit of "circus", when properly promoted, will draw spectators. Can that be an inconvenience for the rest of the classes? Sure it can, but it can also help keep a track solvent. In today's economic climate, I think that is of utmost importance.

I love this sport at every level. I certainly don't have all of the answers concerning how to keep it going, or to grow it, but I have been to enough events at every level to have seen what works and what doesn't work.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

The big loss for Div 2 was Rockingham Winston Invitional .They had huge car counts in everything packed the stands big time.IHRA's crowds have been slim...I guess Steve Earwood wanted a National Event dont remember the whole story I did talk to him about it.He didnt see any piont in upgrading anything if he didnt have some gauranteed big coin.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

I took the advice and time to e mail MR Schaefer,here is the e mail and a Very timely reply
On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:25 PM, Sherlon Truelove wrote:

Mr Schaefer, Seems to be a lot of complaining about the 2011 Divisional Schedule,so i will make my voice heard here with you. First of all I race supergas,next I work for a company thats very supportive of Nhra. That company being GOODYEAR TIRE. I been there going on 33 years,and theres no way one can run that schedule,and keep a full time job. I know you walked into this mess,but WE racers were hoping for some better results. Living in Nc and two hrs from charlottle and i have to travel a min. of 450 miles to run a divisional. I just dont understand the all fl. ga. schedule. Supergas 2122 Sherlon Truelove

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Mr Schaefer 's reply I understand. And I am not a fan of the current LOS schedule at all but in all fairness it is a little overly optimistic for the racers to anticipate that I could have fixed that problem on such short notice. As you stated, I did inherit this schedule. These dates were essentially already allocated to the tracks when I was brought on board. And I don't have many (if any) options to take dates to different tracks. This is not the schedule that I would like to see.

At the same time, I'm taking over a division that only has 1 track in North Carolina. That track at this time is not looking at a Divisional race. From what I've discovered in the short amount of time I've had in the division, there are a LOT of non-NHRA tracks in the Southeast that are just not willing to run under NHRA's safety and tech guidelines. I would love to have more tracks and more options for Divisional races but only if the tracks operate under the safety requirements of the rulebook.

I want more tracks in the Carolinas and Tennessee so that you the racers have more options to run at safely run facilities. I want to more tracks to work with to get the Divisional schedule back in shape. I know it's a mess. But with the hand I was dealt when I came on board, I really don't have many options available yet. I assure you that in time these issues will be addressed and corrected.

Trust me, I get it. I know it's a problem. And I'm working on ways to fix it. Stick with us.


Rich Schaefer
NHRA Southeast Division
4424 NW 13th Street, Suite C6
Gainesville, FL 32609

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Sounded good to me. I say give the guy a chance

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

im raising catfish these days as a farmer, rich spoke to termite so let's give him a chance to turn the division around i have heard good things about this guy, give him a chance.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

As I stated before. I spoke with Ritch for a total of about two hours at the Reynolds Divisional race and at least for now I must take him at his word. I believe him when he says he gets it. It's a tough job scheduling, organizing and promoting races! I know! Jim

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

ok, so assuming there was nothing he could do about the schedule, let's see what else he can do for us. Maybe a double race? more national opens? SOMETHING between May and Sept?

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

I'm glad the Termite took the time to find out where the new Director's head is at .......I sure don't have all the answers but taking the time is better than just bitching about what we don't like ...............Give 'em a chance .And you can write once in a while - as I've said before - they will answer if you act like gentlemen .

PS- His address is above - drop him a line and let him know how you feel .If you don't like to use a pen try e-mail - but do something .

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

The solution is so simple that I can't believe it hasn't been done already.

Create a Division Zero, the Nomads

You make up your own points counting races from the division menu and have at it with other racers across the country that choose this division. It ends the long drives to get that final race that you need for points in division. Also can be interpreted as saving towing fees.
You can now explain to the better half how your saving money by dragging the race car around the country on the next vacation. How about running SS in one Div and S in Div 0 with the same car.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

He inherited a dog pile.Time will tell he has his work cut for him he needs to work it.He is right a lot of these tracks in NC arent NHRA and wont meet the regulations praise him for that.There are some dives but Fayetville is nice at least the last time I was there.Theres Coastal Plains pb a dive now but I guess they wont dump the dough to suit us.Bruton dont want us he wont pay alcohol cars hes a tight wad.Give him a chance but I will not support Div 2 till they fix it!! A lot of people talk lets see some action.Actions speak louder than words so the gf tells me :) You guys will see how it is at the national open!! Its great to be optimistic and hope for the best .Time will tell :)

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Maybe they should dump the Alcohol cars at points races and opens! They dont pay entries and recieve full purses Just use them at National events like the Pros. How many good ones are there anyway. Most oil the track and have a hard time making a complete pass anyway (like the fuel cars). Manzo is about it. Its a benifit race for him when he decides to run Div. 2 or any other division and the Alcohol cars take way to much time to run 4-6- or 8 no load cars. Problem is the tracks are having a hard time surviving now so why should they drop a few hundred thou. or more in up grading the tracks. They are fine for the .90, Stock, Comp, and S.S cars as is and the show wouldnt run late or into another weekend if weather is a factor. The other classes would have better pit space also.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

To this day i have never figured out why the alky funnies and alky dragsters are considered sportsman racers..I think maybe to begin with they were a spectator draw back in the old days.. The top sportsman and top dragster put on a better show to me (fast and less time to run them and minimal down time ).Not knocking the alky classes , but they should be considered a pro catagory. The spectator draw now is not what it used to be. Take that money and use it somewhere else or at least the host track will not drown after an event with such expense as this. Just my .02 worth.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

That's a good point. If the NHRA would drop the Alcohol cars from the menu for points meets, then many tracks would not need million dollar upgrades and would therefore be able to handle points meets.

But, this is not a Divisional problem but a Glendora decision.

The solution for each Divisions problems is the same.......Money and unless you own a bank that the Fed's bailed out you're probably hurting just like the rest of us.

I don't think the NHRA got any bail out money but as badly as they are run they should have.

JimR

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

If the alcohol cars paid an entry fee commensurate with the level of crap required to put up with them, and took their purse from the left overs, we could live with that. As it stands, they're a severe drain on the tracks, track owners, and by extension, the rest of the racers who actually pay their way.

If there's a sponsor that wants them, then the sponsor needs to pay for their part of the costs involved.

Re: Div 2 a 2 stater once again? FL GA
 

Not trying to pile on but if you look at the D2 points for alky you'll see less than 10 in each class claiming D2 as their home Division (of course they all don't live in D2 but that's another story). Furthermore many only run 1-3 races a year so essentially D2 tracks have to guarantee the purse for many out of Division racers. IMHO they have plenty of opportunities to run National events that are facilitated to handle them and that a couple of Divisional races should be all that's allotted for them.