Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

From DRC:

"HEBRON, Ohio - (Revised) Results of final, round 4 eliminations in Mopar Hemi Super Stock Challenge at the NHRA, Sixth annual Jeg's Northern SPORTSnationals:

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed--Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT----ET---Speed
1517 Jim Daniels 350 Jim Pancake
E4 ****WINNER**** No Time 0.068 8.532 154.44

Jim Daniels is a no show but he is awarded the win due to Jim Pancake's post race technical inspection failure."

How can Daniels be awarded the win if he fails to take the tree in the final?

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

I guess somebody has to be declared the winner and Pancake was tossed. So I guess Daniels was the last man standing.Congratulations.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

He would have been runner up whether or not he showed up, so he was awarded the win.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

Not correct.

The car didn't stage or go over the scales.
There is no winner.

Happened to me and Fadely once for class. I got disqualified and he didn't go over the scales. Neither got the win.

Tech guys messed up, I guess.

FJ

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

What happened to Pancake?

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

Why was he illegal?

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

Sounds like P&G...

Ben Holt posted on moparts:
I know what happened, but I'm not at liberty to talk about it yet. I don't know if there will be an appeal or not, or if it's even an option. It was a very small, simple infraction, possibly from warm engine and cold checking equipment, but it was an infraction based on the measurements. Really a shame considering the work we put in over the weekend and the driving Jim was doing. O well.....we will be at the Dutch, hopefully in the barn again!!!

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

They dont P-G those motors, and if they did and it was wrong the owner is crazy not to pull the head and verify it. I mean they take those motors out every race or so anyway.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

I know but it seemed like Ben posted too soon after the final for a head to be taken off...

Trying to read between the lines!

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

P-G a motor?

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

Piston dome not rite to much .002


Hammer

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

????? I always C.C.ed a Hemi S/S dome down in the hole (105.2 C.C.s for a race Hemi) as its an "above block" spec. engine or any other S/S engine dome or dish for volume. I measured STOCKER pistons dome/dish with various gages (usually a dial indicator with a bridge) as they are checked differently than S/S. Whats changed?

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

You are correct.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

A P&G gauge is like an air pump gauge graduated usually 1 to 100 in 1/4 increments like a CC tube or more depending the range of the guage. . You screw in a fitting into the spark plug hole of one cylinder. After making the rocker arms of that cylinder inoperatable so both valves stay closed you spin the engine with the starter with the fitting connected to the P&G by a hose. The reading you get on the "pump" from a puck sliding up a glass cylinder gives you XX as a reading. Add a % of factor for the temp of that cylinder measured with a thermometer and listed on a chart supplied with the P&G gauge. Then you mutiply times the number of cylinders 4,6, or 8 to get the cubic inches. They usually measure 1 to 3 cubic inches UNDER the true size of an engine IF done correctly unless it spins to fast because of a16 volt starter systems. If the figure is OVER the claimed cubic inches then either you did something wrong or its time to pull the head and physically measure the engine. Thats about as good as I can explain it on this forum. Its eaiser to use and show someone how to do it than explain it here. A P&G is not "dead on" tool but a good indication if someone is cheating or not on the size of the engine claimed. The inspector should always make sure the fitting used is the one supplied as Ive had guys try to slip by by changing fittings with a "Bleed hole" in a fitting they have and THAT would give you a false reading. I wont mention names here but I can tell you it was usually a Pro stock racer from the good ole days....LOL and it was tried at an NMCA race years ago by a well know 409 Chev. engine builder. Ya gotta keep an eye on everyone.....LOL.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

The word that spread through the pits was too much piston dome.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

That would have to be C.C.ed as I stated before because it is a S/S classed engine during tear down. Its not a very easy job to do in the car but can be done quite accurately if careful. If it was a stocker Hemi being checked (not this car) then the piston would be measured with a dial indicator or similar precision tool from the deck of the block at TDC for the clyinder to be checked.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

This is what we've been told occurs, you cannot win above your last pass. Tough deal for both.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

What's the consensus on wha t happend? Daniels or nobody?

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

Rulebook is kind of clear. Page 2.2 under staging,,,"To be a legitimate race winner, a contestants vehicle must self-start and self-stage.". Sounds like you at least have to stage.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

This is strictly my own opinion. I don't know if such a situation is covered in the policies and procedures manual that covers stuff that happens that isn't specified in the rule book.

If the violation was one that could be something like fuel or weight that, for what ever reason, only happened in that single round, it wouldn't necessarily indicate that the car wasn't legal for the entire event. An engine spec violation could. That could also lead to a belief that Pancake was in violation of the rules in round one. Therefore, awarding Daniels the win by just making it to the final round would be fair.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

Came back to the thread after a few days and read a lot of interesting posts. My opinion:

Daniels earned a spot in the finals but did not show. Therefore, he can only be awarded the runner-up spot because he failed to validate a possible win by violating the rule mentioned above by Stewart Way. (Self-start, self-stage, take the tree). In other words, he would have had to have actually lost a legal race with Pancake to have been awarded the win on Pancake's disqualification.

Remember the time at the Summernationals when both the finalists in Stock were disqualified in post-race tech? Officially there is no winner or runner-up for that race. On the cover of the National Dragster results issue you can see where they covered up Truman Field's image in the picture of the winners gathered around the tree.

Re: Hemi Super Stock Challenge @ Hebron (SPOILER)
 

The way I see it........the above mentioned scenerios had to do with points earned per round win toward a championship. When there are no points involved toward a championship, the sanctioning body can award a win to the last man standing, if they so desire.