Did you get caught and what happened?
 

In another thread somebody asked the question what happen's if you are caught in violation of the rules. Let's hear from those of you that have first hand knowledge of the consequences when a racer get's caught.

I'll start it off,
At one of the first divisional races I attended I was driving a car that belonged to a friend and we didn't have enough time to get the car up to mininum weight before the first time trail so I went ahead and made the pass and bypassed the scale afterward, I figured they would just leave me off the qualifing sheet but the head tech guy came by my pit spot shortly after and Informed me that he was going toss me out of the race, We had to do some pretty fast talking to change his mind.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Hey Phillip,
After 125 reads no one wants to admit to getting caught. HA!
Should we have a thread about "what you have done that bent or broke the rules and were not caught"?
It might be interesting, but I don't think it will get too much participation.... Let me speculate.. Billy Nees or Bob Shaw might have the most interesting posts... OH! I need to add Bob Dennis to that list. :~)

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Not my car but last year at Cecil County while helping out a friend,Travis told me to make sure the ballast bar underneath the car wasn't still behind the rear body structure anymore.
He remembered the car and the previous owners from another division putting weight mounted to the rear bumper mounting plate.It was removed before the car left Cecil.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

1976? or maybe 75-Freddie Kress (rip) driving an A/S 69 Chevelle,division 1 car out of Pgh, Pa. Kress&Kunsak on the doors-A/S CLASS WINNER-tossed because ONE cylinder on the side the head was pulled measured .0355-iirc, .035 was the largest overbore allowed, it was obviously wear and not a performance advantage-didn't matter. Too big was too big in those days.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Back in the dark ages, my partner (Harry Sparks) and I took our '57 Chevy sedan delivery to a Points Meet at Blair NB and were told by the tech guy that our DASH was illegal because when we removed the heater controls and radio, we didn't replace tthe missing items with metal.

We got some beer cans, cut them up and filled the holes, and hoped that our impromptu "fixes" would be acceptable to him (it was our first time at that strip.)

They were.... :) Problem solved!

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

From the NHRA rulebook...."Bores are measured at the top of the cylinder where ring wear is not evident."

This rule was first put into the NHRA rulebook in 1968 and has been in there every year since.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

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I was told to either primer my whole car or paint it before 1st rd or I could'nt race. I went to k-mart and got primer. I primered it in the pits at Rockingham 1985.

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So, can we open up the bore below this "top part" of the cylinder?

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I was "DQed" after the 1st time trial at the Aaron Koppien Memorial race Saturday. Ten pounds light on the scales, I was told to "put gas in it"! Which I did.

I actually took the "DQ" as a compliment, because it ment I had lost weight. My Doctor would be proud!

#5457

Curt Rees

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Adger, I'll ASSume that you're not insinuating anything!
Let me start this by saying that the head of Sportsmen tech has told me on a number of occasions, "You're one of those people that asks for permission instead of begging for forgiveness".
I was going to save this all for a book but I'll give you my top 3!
3. Tossed for .002 too much valve lift (I was protested) because I didn't have my "checking lifter" and was forced to use a (tech supplied) solid lifter. At the next race we measured my lifter and it was .070 shorter than theirs. They now have an adjustable lifter that they use. My bad.
2. Natl. event teardown was "almost" tossed because my stroke was too short. First time tech guy measured my stroke and came up with 3.263 (stock is 3.25) and said that I was out because my stroke was supposed to be 3.400. So I said to him,"so you mean if I let you throw me out at this race I can show up at the next race with a 3.400 stroke and be legal?" When I said that he went and rechecked the specs and found that he was looking at the specs for a Buick V6. I have a Chevy straight 6.
1. Teardown for a record, I gave the Tech my head minus a valve and he didn't like my "valvejob". The seats were pounded so badly that there were litterally no top and bottom angles left. After talking to the other Techs he told me that I could have the Record but the next time he sees that head it had better have a proper valvejob done because he doesn't know what I'm doing but he knows that I'm cheating!
Adger, on more than one occation I have told NHRA Techs,"You give me your rules, I will play by your rules, YOU remember your rules!
Enough said.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

So I'm assuming that when you get tore down they just leave you with a bunch of parts to throw back together when they are done?

I better help my engine builder in assembling my engine so I know how to put it back together.. :mad:

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And you get to bring your own tools and gaskets too!

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NHRA even uses YOUR tools WTF?

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No, you use your tools to take it apart and put it back together, all they do is tell you what head they want and you bring the head, intake and carb to them.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

"Many" years ago, when I raced my old '68 CJ car, we weren't allowed weight boxes, fuel cells, etc., so I had to run the car full of fuel to make weight. If you don't know, the gas tank had a short snout with a 90 degree neck that turned out between the tail lights. When the car would leave, it would dump a little fuel out. After the starter complained several times, at different races, I tried a shop rag, and other ingenious applications to stop the flow. Nothing seemed to work, so I had come to the point where I needed to come up with a logical solution or cheat by hiding weight somewhere in the car. After consulting the rule book I decided to do this. I took the 90 degree fitting off and put a short straight piece of radiator hose and another gas neck and cap on that. In other words, you opened the trunk and there was a gas cap and filler so you could put the fuel in. Problem solved. No more dumping fuel. At my first Div. race following my new invention, the tech person was shocked when he told me to open my trunk. His words were something like "Charlie, are you crazy? You can't do that" I didn't panic, I just asked him to show me in the rule book where it wasn't allowed. He left and returned quickly with a rule book. He turned to a certain page and pointed out the part that stated "Gas tank outlet must be in stock location". I pointed out that area we were discussing is where you put the gas in, therefore it would be the inlet, and there was no mention of the gas tank inlet in the rule book. A short time later they made me put a sheet metal partition between the car interior and the trunk for safety reasons.

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Billy,
Nothing A**umed... HA! See how interesting your input was!!
I would enjoy more... say a lengthy preview of your book.
Billy, you said tech told you: "You're one of those people that asks for permission instead of begging for forgiveness".
Well, isn't that the way it is done, esp. by out of the box thinkers?
Isn't that how the Box gets expanded?
I included 3 names in my post because I consider them all very creative in using the rules they are given to work with. There are more names that could be added to the list, but time and space are limitations. I was lucky to be able to spell those correctly. Did I? :~)

JSL Racing I would suggest you go to a race and follow someone through a NHRA teardown. If you have never been through one or understand what could await you, you need to see one.
It is your job to provide the parts that NHRA tech requests that prove you are running legal.
I might also suggest you get to know your Div. Tech inspector (s).
Be able to ask questions about the rules. What and Why!!

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Adger, I have found in my experiences that Tech officials are more comfortable finding things that aren't right with your car and penalizing you then they are about answering your questions beforehand about "grey"areas. I have always thought that by telling a racer that he CAN do something in a certain way they were afraid of setting a "precedence". It seems that it's easier to throw the racer out for doing something wrong then it is to explain to a dozen racers why "he's allowed to do it and I'm not".

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Billy,
Good point. that is exactly why one needs get to know his Tech Inspectors.
Thanks for helping make my point.
From west coast to east coast they are all different and some have a different approach to answering questions. Some don't want to give you an answer.
Sometimes the type answer you get is based on "how" you ask the question. That makes it important to know the individual you are talking with.
I think they are doing their job by being more interested in finding the things that aren't right. Most rules are safety based and I want to be safe and the guy beside me be safe.
There is also a rule book they have that we don't have access to. It is called: NHRA TECHNICAL POLICIES & PROCEDURES
I have found that it will spell out more than the rule book that you and I have.
I recently found that I had set several of my NHRA National Records with a carb that had a questionable modification. The Technical manual was not real clear on it. It is allowed in Comp, but not spelled out in SS. I got a yes from one Div. Tech and a no from another on the modification. That is when something needs to go to Danny or Bruce. It was such a little thing I chose to undo the modification.
I'm pretty sure it would have been included (very clearly) in the latest Tech Policies & Procedures if I gone to Glendora. Well, I got a little off the thread on this one, but I think we should appreciate the job the Tech Dept. does. It's not an easy one when they get it like you mentioned.... "Why does he get to do ..so and so.. when I don't"

Ok I'll tell one on myself....
I was a little under weight for the class and had no way to add weight, (before weight boxes in stockers) so... I took the back seat out and wound a double lined plastic garbage bag under the right and left side seat springs. Then filled them with sand to make the weight. I'm sure glad no one sat in the back seat. You can be real creative when you have traveled far away from home!! :~)

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Billy should remember this. Tore down for the record at Delmar (1999?) had the approved unmodified pistons in the car. Almost got tossed because the dish was the wrong depth. Argue it was thier piston approved by Danny. (It tunrs out to be correct volumn but diff depth and diameter dish.) It went all the way to Glendor for approval. Got the record and was allowed to race. Thanks to Billy for the help on that one.

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Larry, do you remember the "Do you know Billy?" massacre from Del-Mar?

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An Ingenious Effort.

Part 1;
Maybe the classic of all-time.
Guy comes to the track with (2) helmets, both identically painted.
Leaves one on the passenger seat during a pre-race weigh-in.
The helmet,,,,,is filled with 'lead', the thing weighed a good 100 lbs. plus.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

That sounds like a certian B/EA Camaro racer from NY years ago.....lol. A certain Pro stock racer who is racing in S/S now had a fire jacket that was lead filled and one that looked just like it that wasnt lead filled. Imagine that !

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When was the last time anybody got a year off???????

Hammer

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

So you have come up with a new way of engine building. Thanks for the tip. I was under the impression that boring bars and CK10 hones usually work all the way from the top of the cylinder. Maybe in teardown we should start measuring cylinder bores at the bottom with all the pistons removed, strictly to gather data for future rule changes if ever needed.

It never ceases to amaze me how innovative racers can be.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

Yea,
I agree with that statement about innovation.
If you guys would start measuring like that you would catch my 500 cu in V-6. :~0

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Travis,

Thats funny.
Where can I get those special step-stones for the CK-10.
It must leave a nice Cross-Hatch:D

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A few of us do. Thanks for that one too! DO YOU KNOW BILLY? WILL YOU PLEASE BRING ME YOUR CARB?

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No, thank you Travis for being a real technical staffer! As a specialty aerospace cnc engineer/machinist, I know it can be done. They have me do some of the craziest stuff at work and, I have to think outside of the box more than I care to...lol...

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

On an episode of 'American Muscle Car' Hubie Platt talked about having a helmet bag full of lead in his Thunderbolt.

I used to race with a Buick wagon stocker guy who had mufflers under his wagon that were full of lead. 13 second 350 2bbl car would pull the front wheels about 3 feet. LOL!

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Let us know just what particular airplane models you had input into,so that I can avoid
flying in them.

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

I got caught with a aluminum drive shaft during tech in..It was simply a mistake I was running a lot of IHRA which its legal lollll..They let me run the national event after a brief discussion..To this day I feel the aluminum drive shaft is safer!!!!

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I was at a race, opps, i mean that I knew of a friend that went to a race and was found to have the wrong carb 4bbl instead of a 2bbl. The tech guy was real upset about the whole thing. So I, I mean this guy then told the tech guy about a system that is employed in intergalatical travel evasion, and before you know it the tech guy just looked a little bit wierd, looked me, him right in the eyes and said in a very low tone "everything seems to be in order sir, have a good day" So my friend went back to the pits, qualified with the 4bbl, and ran eliminations with the 2bbl. And no it was not a Jedi mind trick, though somewhat similar.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA open your mind

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1976 Summer Nationals Class Win..................... .001 light on deck after that was asked to leave..........:mad:

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Bob - Was that with the Vega???

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Yes Sir..................

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Serves you right for running a Vega.:>):>):>)

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Be nice Ed, I even raced a AMX one time in 69..............:eek:

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That makes everything better,Bobby.

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No more HONEST people..................

Re: Did you get caught and what happened?
 

This is for all you guy's that long for the good old days in stock. In1976 I won class at the Summernationals. Had a 1969 Mustang CJ with a stick that ran D/S. That's back when stock meant stock! Went thru tear down with no problem till they asked me what kind of hyd. lifter was in the car. I said TRW and they informed me that they had to be FORD! The rule book said OEM and I took that as OEM replacement. I was wrong and they were nice, but sent me on my way!!!!!!! The stick car back then would bend valves every week the car went out. See you had to run stock valve train back then. Springs were checked both open and seat. We were allowed 97lbs on the seat and 298 open. Used to have to buy 50 springs at a time to get 16 good ones. I still have over a 100 springs left and I have been doing engines in my shop for the last 40 years. In 1977 we changed to a automatic and set the record. We felt pretty good about ourselves so my partner went to the 1977 Sportsnational's in Bowling Green, KY. He won class and during tear down the guy helping him knocked the two valve springs and shims they were going to check off the table before they had checked them for pressure. They gave them one chance to put the shims with the right springs. Bottom line, one spring was 12lbs lite, the other was 2lbs over!!!!!!!! So you guys that want to go back to the good old days can have them. I for one enjoy what the class has evolved into!!!!!!!!!!!