Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

This was an enlightening piece of information. In the text it states that Ford and Chrysler worked very closley with Danny and Bruce.

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-...nd-ss-by-storm

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Well, this helps explain why the discussions are so heated out in Glendora. It was my premise that they would only be heated if someone made some promises to Ford and Chrysler that they would have difficulty keeping if the FX classes were instituted. Now we know who the someones were, Danny & Bruce.

It not about just adding the classes. That would be a no brainer, but it is about lost promises. Hahaha!

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

These people MUST have been on "DRUGS" !........LOL.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

“I don’t know that there’s an advantage to these cars right now,” said Hajek. “I think the big lure is they are something new and different. I know there are those who think these cars are under-factored [in the horsepower ratings, determining index] but it’s awful hard for these cars to stay ahead of the older muscle cars."

:rolleyes:

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Hajek is either a blithering idiot or he lied through his teeth. What an arrogant jerk. At least be honest and say "yes these cars have an advantage in the class right now, but I'm sure that won't last"

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

A very rich blithering idiot arrogant jerk to buy 10 of those things at one time......LOL

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Talk about spin. If they were concerned about selling on Monday what they race on Sunday they would be racing cars the public could buy, instead of factory built race cars with crate motors at bogus hp ratings. The fact of the matter is that the Mustang, the Challenger and the Camaro are all niche cars with a very small market, This is all about ego for some people at Chrysler and Ford. They built these cars to embarrass the old cars and to me all they did was embarrass themselves.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

ROTFLMAO! http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/laughing22.gif

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

MY OPINION ONLY;

NHRA welcomed these cars with open arms. They are thinking only 'FOR PROFIT' and are taking the sport to a higher level in an attempt to emulate NASCAR with only late model (1 - 3 yrs. old) cars in the field. NASCAR cars don't resemble anything you can buy off the showroom and neither will these NHRA cars.

They don't want the HP ratings to be 'in line'. The ridiculous HP ratings are meaningless ard are only used to drive the older cars out. After a while there will only be late model cars in the field and the older cars will be regulated to local weekend races in a jr. league as is the case now in NASCAR.

Why is this being done over time rather than with the stroke of a pen as was done when all pre 1960 cars were eliminated from stock eliminator? To avoid a revolution. They are trying to quietly sneak this by you.

The only way to stop this is for all NHRA members to unite and take action, probably legal action. And they know that probably will never happen. The members (owners) of this non-profit organization must find a way to put the power back into the member's hands or they are doomed.

I can't help but think that Bruton Smith and his facility (which is far too elaborate for the current NHRA program) is a sign of what's to come. His $ has a huge influence on the NHRA as was evidenced by his ridculous four wide nationals. They will change the face of drag racing unless we can unite and stop it now.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Just check out the number of quality higher HP classed stockers (and tow rigs,) that are FOR SALE now since Indy. Some are giving up before thier investment becomes worthless !

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Getting discourged and just parking your car, as many have done, isn't the answer. It's just playing right into their hands. They win.

They only way to beat this movement is to unite. Your membership and permanent number money could be going into a legal fund to help fight this. Instead it's going to feed the head of the dragon that's going to eat us.

Most racers have the same view of what's happening and instead of arguing amongst ourselves as we do here every day we need to find a way to unite in order to fight and hopefully stop this.

How to do this, I don't know, but I bet some of you could come up with some pretty good ideas.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Can we buy up about 50-60 PT Cruisers to show up at every event and push them to the bottom of the qualifying sheet just to embarrass them? :D

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

anyone else want to chime in on the thread i started on the competition plus forum???

http://forum.competitionplus.com/showthread.php?t=6910

let's tell them what we really think, and what is really going on

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Chad,

Everything you say is true. But just taking individual pot shots at them isn't going to help.
"They" are quite aware of the situation and the ONLY way to fight them is with a unified effort.

If we lose, then we can all go IHRA racing, and believe me, that wouldn't be such a terrible thing.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I already emailed Bobby and gave him an ear full. I also told him if he did not believe me to go to classracer and read for himself.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

my point was that CompPlus has no problem flying in the face of Glendora's wishes, so why not do an article showing the real effects of these cars instead of a fluff piece with a bold faced lie as its defending quote

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

If the car counts went up a lot in IHRA then the manufacturers would follow. Better pay outs and more manufacturers paying also. The up shot would be better tech form hiring more and better informed tech people. Ahhhh, but there are to many NHRA racers who would rather quit and go fishing than to "Lower" themselves.....lol.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I debated long and hard whether I was going to respond to this.

The bottom line is I wrote an article intent on discussing the latest trend in Stock and Super Stock racing. I wanted to give these classes some much needed publicity. It wasn't intended to focus on what was right or wrong with Stock and Super Stock.

I interviewed Brent with the specific question, why he brought out these cars. It had nothing to do with factoring or anything. I figured if a man had bought ten of them, he was certainly qualified to speak on the matter.

However, there will be another article, not sure when, discussing what is believed to be the unfairness of these cars competing.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Very good, Bobby. A follow-up article would be great. The CJ Mustangs and DP Challengers have created controversy. These new cars can be good for the sport, but only if handled correctly, and not placed in Stock with bogus HP ratings. They have no VIN, and cannot be purchased at the dealer by the averaged motoring public because they are NOT street legal. The Stocker I race had over 130,000 miles on the odometer before I turned it into a race car, including over ten years of Michigan winters.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I thank you and look forward to seeing your article, there is alot of cars that are affected and now obsolete by the way they were dumped on by nhra.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

The new cars are the future. The 40 year old cars don’t seam to be bringing in any new sponsors or factory involvement like the new cars are. Face it, NHRA isn’t about racing anymore, it’s a business. Better learn to embrace the new cars, they’re here to stay.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

For many of us this article appears to be more publicity for the new cars and, Stock, not so much. I hope you do write a new article about the fairness factor of these new cars in Stock. It would be nice to think that your discussion would include some of the racers who have been adversely affected by these new cars. Do you think this article will be out before the end of the year? Thanks.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Well you guy's must be on planet Mar's if you think putting a article out like this now was not going to stir the pot even more. So you think that its something that is just BELIVED to be the unfairness. It sounds to me that your just as Quailifed to write this article as Hajek is to own or even quote about these, EPIC Failure on your part. Congrats!!

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Bobby, with all due respect, I take serious issue with this statement in your article:

In the Stock division, half of the top twenty qualifiers were in the purpose built street legals cars.

While I suppose, to some degree, I can appreciate the "publicity" for Stock and Super Stock, some real honesty and facts would have been nice. Mostly what that article constitutes is some favorable publicity for Chrysler, Ford, and NHRA, at the expense of the rest of the participants.

I look forward to your next article.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I am gald to see that others are finally getting it.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Bobby please explain what research you did on the article as I find issue with these three paragraphs.

Over the Labor Day weekend at the NHRA U.S. Nationals in Indianapolis, forty percent of the top twenty qualifiers in the NHRA’s Super Stock and Stock divisions were comprised of either these Mustangs or Challengers. In the Stock division, half of the top twenty qualifiers were in the purpose built street legals cars.

As I understand it none of the cars are street legal.

“They [NHRA] were very accommodating,” said Hakim. “We worked very closely with guys like Danny Gracia and Bruce Batchelder in making sure the cars met the requirements. I can say I was very proud to be a part of that program.”

One look at the HP ratings tells you how accommodating NHRA was.

And for the manufacturers and the NHRA, there exist a growing sense of pride in returning to their roots of fast showroom cars meeting the horsepower arena of the drag strip.

I checked my local showroom there was not one any where to be found. Not to mention the Challenger would have to go down the track on trailer if you want to go from the dealer to the track. The Challengers at my local dealer are not approved by the NHRA to race.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I think I can make a comment from both sides of the fence.
42 years ago, long before bracket racing, after getting beat up every week heads up in my 57 T-Bird, I bought a new 4-speed 428 Cobra Jet Mustang. And at my local tracks, (Augusta, Blaney, Jackson, etc.), it went a whole year without getting beat in it's class. There was no break out and all class runs were heads up. You had to win class to race in the eliminator. Of course, all the old timers (that were not nearly as old as I am now) hated it. Then in 1969, I got another 428 Mustang that I still race and it was the same way for a while. Now, of course, it doesn't have much of a chance in a heads up race, but it did have it's time. I still have both cars and they have great memories with them.
40 years later, I get another new Cobra Jet Mustang that's hated by the modern old timers. It's time is now but history will repeat itself and something else will come along that's faster, which is the way it's always been.
Also, if anyone wants to qualify way faster under the index than any CJ or Drag Pack, I know of a cheap mini van for sale.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Bill, the big difference was that the original CJ was only 40 hp under rated instead of 100.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

There is no such thing as a 2009 CJ, they are either 2008 or 2010 models. Poor research on this one. Also, the DPs and CJs are not street-legal, no less street legals.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

....and it isn't working. Camaro has outsold the Mustang 12 out of the last 15 months. May, June, and July had some heavy incentives that brought the Mustang sales up, but in several of the cases the Camaro outsold the Mustang and Challenger combined.

Don


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1283360033

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I will bet you or anyone else could have bought one at a dealership and drove it home. Hell I bet you even "banged" a few gears on the city (or country) streets from time to time - before you made it a full on race car. These cars are purpose built race cars and have no place in STOCK eliminator. End of discussion.

I realize change is inevitable - I just hoped it would be a little more graceful than this. However, after what happened to PS truck - we should know anything is possible with good old NHRA

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Respectfully, that's apples and oranges. The 428 wasn't factored at 220HP, and it wasn't running against a field of cars that had already been flogged on for 30 years. As usual -- nothing against the racers that bought them: the blame lies on the shoulders of NHRA. You can't even blame the manufacturer's for trying to slip one through, but NHRA just *couldn't* bring themselves to say, "Really? Sorry, don't think so. How about this?" Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think the new cars are NEAT! Definitely cool. But that doesn't mean that the factors are not totally ridiculous, and that they shouldn't have gone straight into Super Stock since they were not street cars.

I would also argue that making mistakes in the past does not make it okay today. We're supposed to learn from history. 'Course if we did that then we would be following Calvin Coolidge instead of FDR... but I digress. :rolleyes:

It *can* be argued, "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday" -- not selling the cars that were raced, but people *can* buy cars that *look* like the race cars. And oh, BTW, to someone else's point about what NASCAR has become: duly noted. I quit watching it after the first year of the COT.

And I think the mini van is cool! :D

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

This is a reson the race on Sunday sell on Monday does't much work any more!

It's in trouble because the youthful enthusiasm that fueled the sport for so long is dying off. The young auto enthusiasts who automatically watched the races, feverishly followed every last bit of news or detail about their favorite car or driver, and who eventually grew into professional careers and could actually afford to buy a car from their favorite manufacturers have been replaced by hordes of consumerist junkies with no affiliation to anything other than to have the latest bit of electronic technology in their possession, or the hottest communication device of the moment. Note that there's nothing in that scenario about desiring the latest sports car or high-performance vehicle.

And the world's auto manufacturers are worried. They're spending hundreds of billions of dollars on advanced technological development of alternative fuels and propulsion systems, forward-thinking fuel-saving and efficiency technologies, and countless other programs that will lay the foundation of our transportation of The Future, yet if people don't care or don't view automobiles as machines worth owning - and prefer their individual mobile communications devices instead, the whole damn thing could come unraveled

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

GM got far more bang for their buck with the goofy "Transformers" movie than Ford and Chrysler did with their NHRA stunt.

Ok, I gotta admit, I kinda liked the movie. That girl was really.....transforming.... :D

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I will agree - she did generate some excitement (I mean interest)

Lol

:-)

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

I think that folks are also overlooking the weight of the DP's. The real weight of a Challenger SRT with a 6.1 is 4200 lbs. a R/T w/a 5.7 is 4000 lbs. Have them race at their real shipping weight.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

That would probably put them at a 25/75 weight distribution and they could hook up on snow tires.....LOL.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

Then obviously you didn't work hard enough on that '57 bird.:>):>)
Seriously were the '57s still running in1968?

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

If nhra would allow me to go through the GMPP catalog and pick out the parts that I thought were competitive, AND get to choose my own horsepower rating, I think I could run the CJ's/DP's out of D, E, and F/S even with a 40 year old car. Then see how long it takes for an old 40 year old car to get to AA/S. I'm sure the factories would like that.

That makes as much sense as what they have allowed Ford and Chrysler to do.

Re: Competition Plus DP and CJ article
 

very good point Arnold