Can you settle an argument?
 

Did anyone here ever buy a new 1969 rs ss z28 Camaro off the showroom floor? Was there such a thing? Was there a 69 ss z28? Was there ever a 1969 rs z28 for real?

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

I had a new 1969 Z-28... I have nothing to back it up, but what I thought.. I didn't know you could cross RS and SS with Z-28. I had a friend that had an RS-SS...

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An RS/Z28 was available. An RS/SS was available. An SS/Z28 was not. An RS/SS/Z28 was not.

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Chucks right an RS/Z28 you could buy A SS/Z28 or SS/RS/Z28 was never built. An SS/RS Was also built.

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The R/S option could be on S/S or Z/28. Any camaro that had hideaway headlights had R/S option is what I was always told,taillights were also different ,had backup lights in panel below bumper.I think 67 Z/28 could be exception though.
Mike Taylor 3601

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Euro bumpers? (plastic and painted to match?) Fold down rear seat?

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All SS camaros from 67 through 69 had either a 350 or 396 for power. All Z-28s of the same years had a 302 engine, no exceptions.The Super Sport option indicated the installment of one of these engines along with a 12 bolt rear among other specific equipment.
All Z-28s cam with the 302, 4 speed Muncie and 12 bolt, no AC and had 15 inch wheels and front disc brakes among other special equipment.
The RS or Rally Sport option was an appearance package that could be had on any first generation camaros from a base model 6 cyl to a COPO 427, SS, or Z-28.
Never was an SS-Z28.
Hope this helps!

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

RS package in '67 & '68 included the hideaway headlights, wheel well moldings, special badging, chrome drip rail molding, special taillights, backup lights in the valence panel, stainless door trim (across the top of the door and a lower stainless rocker panel on '67 models), heavy duty cooling on 6 cylinder and 327 2-bbl engines, and F41 heavy duty suspension (included the 12 bolt rear end except for 6-cylinder models) if not already equipped. Combining the RS package with the SS package or the Z28 package meant the suspension components of the SS package or the Z28 package overrode the RS pieces and the RS badging was not installed, except that some '67 Z28s that came through with an RS gascap. In '69, the suspension and cooling system components were removed from the RS package so it became an appearance package only.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Where's Jerry McNeish on this one.If he doesn't know then nobody does.

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I had a new '69 Camaro Z-28 RS ..........S/S option not available on the Z ................

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Jack, owning that car today would be nice for more reasons than one!

I raced a car very similar for a few runs in about 1970. A '69 Z/28 in F/S. Black with white panels and black and white houndstooth interior. I loved that car and it was in near perfect shape. Went low 12's at York and was owned by a man named Al Lucas.....and we had fun racing together for a short stint. A sold lifter 302 compared to a hyd cammed 350 was not even close.....

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

That 69 euro style front bumper was known as an ENDURO bumper---my 69 RS/SS 350 camaro had one-- never saw another one again also MINE DID NOT have a fold down rear seat have seen a coupla cars with them but do not know if they were swapped in or original to those cars-----Comp 387

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

In a nutshell, RS is an appearance package (except '67-'68 F41 as Dwight pointed out) and SS is a mechanical package. Since Z-28 includes, or is primarily, a mechanical package, it "trumps" the SS package.
This is an enduro bumper. $85K will buy this '69 Z-28.

Incidentally, I have some rare literature and documents streaming in on ebay. I recently read the procedure on the 1971 Mopar "B" body version of this bumper. There is 1/4" of one coating followed by 2 1/2" of the elastomeric coating! Talk about killing the weight distribution!

Here is a real '69 RS Z-28. Follow the link for more pictures and a very thorough description. Would love to have this car in my garage!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...t_44453wt_1161

http://www.classiccarstudio.com/imag...ion/1307/3.jpg

http://www.classiccarstudio.com/imag...ion/1307/7.jpg

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Rich -- As you can see in my pic I was also in F/S -but never did very well with it -- would you believe this car is still here in Bethlehem .....and he wants to sell it back to me but for pre-recession money .

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Not trying to be a wise guy, but my father has that exact car sitting in his garage. Same color and vinyl top. He bought it in '70, drag raced it in stock class and was world record holder at one time. The car hasn't seen the street since '71 and has 27,000 miles on the odometer.
Those who drag raced in Indiana back in the early '70's may remember it as being named Blitzkreig.
The original question has been answered, but a couple little known facts.
Being a former member of the United States Camaro Club, all 67-69 Z/28's came from the factory with rear bumper guards. A quick way to tell if the Z is original. Also, the front and rear spoilers were options as were the cowl induction hood and console with the gauge cluster.
My father's Z came equipped with a flat hood, no spoilers and no console which makes it a rare Z.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

ive been told also that to tell if its a true rear spoiler car or not unlock the trunk, if it raises by itselfs it was a factory rear spoiler car if it just sits there it wasnt.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

true D-80 rear spoiler cars had different spring bars for the trunk. i believe one was a little thicker to help with the added weight of the spoiler. this is easier to verify after Nov 68 built cars as the D-80 spoiler option was listed on the cowl tag. it was not listed on the earlier 'half tag cars" .

Most 69 Z/28's did not receive the D-80 option. it was not a standard option until after the january 69 build date ( IIRC). most of these cars have been restored with the D-80 option even though it was not factory equipment,.

*side note - the ZL2 cowl induction hood was not standard equipment on the Z/28 either. which seem to go hand in hand with most restorations. 20,602 Z-28s were built in 69 of which 40% probably recieved these 2 option together. but now most restored Z's have both options.. shame really.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

I believe the rubber ft bumper was called an ENDURA bumper.

Goggle the following for info: Endurabumper.com

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Any camaro with THE FACTORY ordered spoiler package will have D80 on the cowl tag. The reason I say this IS because many camaros were ordered without the spoiler package and then the package was available as a DEALER INSTALLED option.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Incorrect. On the 1969 Camaros the D80 spoiler option did not appear on the cowl tag until March- April cars. My 02D (4th week of Feb.) Camaro does not have it, but was built with that option.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Camaro Base Coupe

• The CAMARO Base Coupe is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available in 6 different variations with engines ranging from the L6, 230-cid. - 5.7L V8, 350-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $2,621us - $2,779us.
  

Camaro Base Convertible

• The CAMARO Base Convertible is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Convertible with seating for 4. It is available in 6 different variations with engines ranging from the L6, 230-cid. - 5.7L V8, 350-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $2,835us - $2,992us.

Camaro RS Rally Sport Coupe

• The CAMARO RS Rally Sport Coupe is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available in 6 different variations with engines ranging from the L6, 230-cid. - 5.7L V8, 350-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $2,753us - $2,911us.

Camaro RS Rally Sport Convertible

• The CAMARO RS Rally Sport Convertible is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Convertible with seating for 4. It is available in 6 different variations with engines ranging from the L6, 230-cid. - 5.7L V8, 350-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $2,967us - $3,124us.

Camaro Z28 Coupe

• The CAMARO Z28 Coupe is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available in only 1 variation with a hi rev 5.0L V8, 302-cid. It had a retail value ranging from :$3,588us.

Camaro Z28 RS Rally Sport Coupe

• The CAMARO Z28 RS Rally Sport Coupe is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available in only 1 variation with a hi rev 5.0L V8, 302-cid. It had a retail value of : $3,719us.

Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Coupe [X-10]

• The CAMARO Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Coupe [X-10] is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available in 5 different variations with engines ranging from the 5.7L V8, 350-cid. - 6.67L V8, 396-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $3,192us - $3,902us.

Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Convertible [X-11]

• The CAMARO Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Convertible [X-11] is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Convertible with seating for 4. It is available in 5 different variations with engines ranging from the 5.7L V8, 350-cid. - 6.67L V8, 396-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $3,405us - $4,115us.

Camaro SS Super Sport Coupe

• The CAMARO SS Super Sport Coupe is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available 5 different variations with engines ranging from the 5.7L V8, 350-cid. - 6.67L V8, 396-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $3,023us - $3,733us.

Camaro SS Super Sport Convertible

• The CAMARO SS Super Sport Convertible is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Convertible with seating for 4. It is available 5 different variations with engines ranging from the 5.7L V8, 350-cid. - 6.67L V8, 396-cid. It had a retail value ranging from:$3,236us - $3,946us.

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Coupe

• The CAMARO SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Coupe is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Coupe with seating for 4. It is available 5 different variations with engines ranging from the 5.7L V8, 350-cid. - 6.67L V8, 396-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $3,154us - $3,864us.

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Convertible

• The CAMARO SS [RS] Convertible is a 2-Door, rear wheel drive Convertible with seating for 4. It is available 5 different variations with engines ranging from the 5.7L V8, 350-cid. - 6.67L V8, 396-cid. It had a retail value ranging from : $3,367us - $4,077us.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

I had a 69 RS/Z-28 back in the late 70's to the mid 80's . I was able to talk to the original owner. I tracked him down from the gas charge receipts stuffed way under the rear carpet & under the seats. My car had the X-33 code stamped on the cowl tag. As stated in a prior post, my car did not come with a cowl hood. It did have the Z-28 rear bumper guards & RS features. I wish I still had that car.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Jack, you can afford it, go get it, you won't regret it. I wish i could find the 68 Z28 i bought new, drove it 8 miles to my shop and made it a Drag Car! Later sold it to an Airman up your way!:( I later had a 1967 and a 1969 man o man.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Hi Dana, this is where it gets interesting. I have three 1969 camaros. camaro #1 is a X33D80 Z/28 09D #2 is a X77D80 Z/28 02C and #3 no X number with narrow spoiler (68)flat hood Z/28 10C. All with factory spoilers-first 2 are norwood cars ----so I give Up !

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

On the subject of Z-28's...if a smaller diameter main journal is better for less frictional loss and therefore performance, why did Chevrolet increase the size in 1968? And it seems the "large journal" is a selling point (same with the rod journals). Is the "small journal" SBC that weak?

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Woody - You're right -- I wouldn't regret it but it needs a full restoration and I don't drive the ones I have enough so why take on another to sit around even if I ever finish it ............We are only temporary custodians of these cars -- hope mine go to someone who will love and care for them as I have ............

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Does the 02C car say D80 on the cowl tag? If it does I stand corrected, and not the first time! Also, does it have the short spoiler ?

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

I bought my Z in Sept. '72 from the original owner. It was a flat hood, Endura bumpered, spoilered car,long spoiler , rear bumper guards too. The color of the car was Burnished Brown with the white stripe kit,, a somewhat rare combo, I've only seen a few that color. It was a non RS car with the silver grille instead of black. The first thing I did was buy some Cragar SS wheels and a set of Goodyear Polyglass GTs for it,,it looked great.
We didn't care about originality or restorations back then,,,first thing I sold was the intake to put a new Torker on it and everything snowballed from there. I eventually sold the shortblock to a buddy with a hydroplane in the 5 litre class as he needed a 302, ouch!
I talk about the car in past tense as it was stolen in January of '75,,,cops found it 8 months later, not much left of it. If I knew then what I know now I would've bought it back from the Ins.company and rebuilt it. 35 years later and I still miss it,,I've never replaced it either,,,,,it sure was alot of fun and I deffinately learned how to replace clutches in a hurry.
Danny Durham

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Reading through the post I have some questions of my own, I have a barn find, yes I have pictures of the barn i found it in, it appears to be a 68 Z, as everyone knows the 68 was the only year that the cowl tag does not clearly state that it could be a Z, anyway previous post states that ALL Z's had front and rear bumper guards, well mine does not, i have yet to start resto on this car because i do not know the best way to restore it and not lose the value of it being a true Z. it has all the add on's that a Z should have, 12 bolt rear, tag in trunk warning of a posi,tic-tac clock, 4 speed, etc... any help, input on direction would help

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

My 68 Z-28 did NOT have bumper guards either and I bought it brand new.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

I have not taken the car a part yet to look for a build sheet, it is pretty much still intack from the dash back, have another 68 that has 4 piston disk brakes and came with a inline 6 and 3 on the tree, so who knows,

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Ok yes the bumperettes were suppose to come with the rsZ28 but you could order them removed from the factory. I spent 8yrs restoring my 69Z28 which I bought from the estate of the original owner in their barn. Mine was ordered with factory deleted bumper guards and rear spoiler(front spoiler was left on) no radio but upgraded interior(he was planning on racing it but blew the engine). Divorce forced the sale to a gentleman who never drives it and has built a shrine to it. These car were met to be driven hard.lol Claude

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Mine still has an under dash 8-track tape player, about a big as a mircowave, even has a keyed lock so no one could steal it. almost looks factory installed but again who knows.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Since the designation "D80" to identify cars equipped with the spoiler option was not used until midway through the model year, there are a couple of possible explanations. The most likely is that the "09D" body date (fourth week of September) is a very late car. 1969 Camaros were produced until about the first week of November, 1969, due to the late release of the 1970 models. A spoiler-equipped, 09D car built in September, 1969 would have the D80 code on the body tag. An 09D car built in September 1968 should not have the D80 code.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Hi Chuck, I agree with you as the 09D car was a very late end of year build. The 02C car came through with with the D80 on the cowl tag which would probably be one of the first ones with the designation on the tag. Some books say that they did not start putting on until another 2 months. --------what is------IS ! It all would be easier if GM handled it like GM of CANADA .---------John

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Burner,,,,,check to see if you've got an 8,000 rpm tach,,which was Z-28 only. Also, all dual exhaust cars had plates welded behind the rear wheels on the subframe for exhaust hangers,,something else to look for. Nice barn find,,,more pictures please!
Danny Durham

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

A Z28 sold on Barrett Jackson yesterday for 40K.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Yes Floyd, the market is down on muscle cars. Also the car that you seen on Barret Jackson may have had issues that you will not see on TV and will not hear about. Have you ever been to one of the major auctions ? I would recommend it to anyone looking to buy an INVESTMENT. Keep in mind the B-J aucton is a NO RESERVE auction which means once the car reaches the stage whatever it sells for that is it. B-J gets ( dont quote on this ) 17 % on the front and 17% on back so buyer and seller both pay. Many times the creme of the crop never make the line for the stage as the deal is done out in the lot. The Russo & Steele and Mecum auctions are RESERVE auctions in which if the car does not make the reserve you can take it back home. I believe it makes the auctioneer work harder for you to get your number. I know a person who did well with his purchase at a Russo&Steele auction and I know 2 people got screwed at a B-J auction aqnd one of them are involved in a lawsuit with B-J. Bottom line KNOW WHAT YOU LOOKING AT AND CHECK AS MANY NUMBERS CAN OR HIRE A PRO TO CHECK A CAR YOUR INTERESTED IN. BUYER BEWARE !!

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Wide range of bids on Musclecars.
I think Barrett-Jackson gets a sellers fee up-front, plus
8% of the sale.
The buyer must pay a $400 registration fee, plus 10% of the sale.
There is a 17% buyers fee, for something called the automobilia
premium/absentee buyer.
So I'm guessing, if your not present at the auction, you get
hammered.

On a $50,000 sale. B-J gets $4000 from the seller, and a minimum of
$5000 from the buyer, unless it was the 'Special Hammer, which at
17% would be $8500.

The Road Race cars are starting to make a move up the scale.

Re: Can you settle an argument?
 

Jeff,
On the small-journal versus large-journal.
The 67' blocks were 2-bolt mains, and utilized connecting rods with 5/16" bolts.
Also pistons with pressed-in pins.
The theory is the 4-bolt mains and larger-journal cranks are stronger.

This one can be debated until eternity.

pc