t stop thoughts/debate
 

Shut down more with less time
or
Shut down less with more time.

Chip

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I would think it's a matter of preference, either will work but the less time on the stop the more MPH you'll carry at the stripe.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

i like more shut down less time ,i try to find that spot that works for 9.90 and 10.90

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I understand about the MPH thing. I'm looking for effeciency. I know when the blade are shut it affects air flow. If you change the rate or amount of air flow it's got to change the consistentcy/effeciency of the car so:
1) Do you have more air flow for a longer period
or

2) Less air flow for a shorter period

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Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

When starting out I was told and tried to set up the stop RPM so that you have a 2 to 2.5:1 ratio. even the stop manufacturers recommend this. I have had cars that it is 4000rpm and cars that that is closer to 5,000. I was told by Sherman Adcock once that you never want to go below 4000. I think it is because the convertor makes the car inconsistant.

Roy

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I too have heard that and believe it's true.
Previously I tried to go back to near idle so my F.I. barrell valve would close but it wasn't consistent so some time ago I started to take it down to ~4500 and I found that to be much more consistent.
The type of stop you use can make a difference also, if you get too low rpm with a blade type of stop it possible to get a lean stumble when it opens because you won't get an accelerator pump shot. Which of course is not a problem with an in line type stop.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Count me in the shut down more less time category. But I am on the stop a LONG time in S/ST..

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I used to run F.I. and tried to stop it down to just above idle and it didnt work for me either i set the stop at 43-4500 and it seemed to repeat quit well.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Told by who?

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I guarantee there are several (myself included) high HP guys that have to have the stop set below 4000 RPM. I would have 5 secs of stop in some situations at that high of an RPM.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

my rpm is 3800 on the stop ,guy from one stop told me its what the car can handle without stumbling

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

This was suggested to me by Sherman Adcock about 10 years ago. I trusted what he said as he had won a supergas championship. One of my cars is a 160mph car but the other I drove for a few years is a 175mph car and it is set at 4000rpm and I only have 2-2.5 in the timer. I do know a couple of high mph cars that set their stops at 4000 and have about 3 seconds, these are 180+ mph cars that have tried lower without success. There are always acceptions to the rule. There are also other factors in your setup that can effect this working or not like shift time, tire and gears.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

You can count me in the 5 seconds of stop time group too

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I was at 4500 with the small motor....on for anywhere from .75- 1.75 depending on the weather......It would .90 pretty consistantly....So far with the bigger motor going down to 3800 with roughly the same..maybe a little more in the timer it seems to have worked decent....I'm still getting use to it ..and I'm sure I'll figure it out but I would have say at this point the higher rpm worked a tad better.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

FWIW I am at 4000 downpower. I cannot go any lower and maintain consistency with my set up. Timer one is set at .000, I shift at .5-.75 depending on the track and timer two is typically 4.85-5.00 depending on weather etc. With this set up I typically go 10.90 at 157 or so.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I was joking:) he is a friend and team mate. My combo is; .10 first timer and anywhere from 1.6 to 1.9 on the second timer, shift at .70 out. I play back ever run and my dead stall is 4100 rpm give or take 50 rpm's.
I go anywhere between 168 to 171 @ 8.90 on the stop.
BB

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Cool, he really set me on the right path. I was young, dumb and struggling to get my car to work on a t-stop. He was at a George Howard big money race in Tucson as a guest speaker and came to my pit and talked to me for a good half hour about throttle stop theory.

My uncle's car, that I drove for a couple of years, is very similar to that setup. Same RPM similar shift and on tmer for 2.25 to 2.5 depending on track elevation 171-175mph. One of the most cosntent cars i have seen, but liked to throw out a 4 hundredths slow run once a weekend, usually in eliminations.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Y'all know my thoughts on the subject! Get rid of all those big motors and get "Adjustaflows". It's been working for me since '84.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Shyt you can't keep the car running that long. 157 maybe... with tailwind at infineon....LOL

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

157 at 10.90 got to be pretty serious motor ,i'll run 4 seconds and go 10.90 at 150 151,same rpm set up its 9.90 156 with 2.4 timer shifting on time 1 second in for both set ups
,

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I just can't tell you how much fun it is to get passed at the finish line by 35 mph+ and see that .89 pop up in the other lane!

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Careful Ed, you'll piss a lot of people off with that kind of heresy!

L.O.L.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

With the car set up with a lower down power number I have been 159 and change at 10.90 a number of times. All out the car has been 168. I wish I could find a good set up to not loose the MPH I do. But the car is not dialable(is that a word)set up that way ,at least for me but it can go 159 at 10.90. One thing for sure in Phoenix my t stop set up was NOT the way to be doing it on that track that weekend. Last S/ST race I ran at Infineon the car was running 153-4 with over 5 seconds in the timer. DA's were -50 to 600' IIRC. Hard to run fast when I am on the stop at 4100 that long. So tell me please what the secrect is. I have watched your car a ton of times trying to figure out that magic set up :) Give me a break that Infineon Divisional was my FIRST ever S/ST race. Thought I did ok we are still trying to figure this stuff out for sure.

Cant keep it running that that long, TOUCHE! Jeff you got me there for sure. The again I dont have anywhere near the cubes at 500" that some do. Motor had 228 passes on it when we pulled it out. About 1/2 wide open shifting at 8300, but only going through the traps at 7450(no gear). Had a freak failure for sure. The Roller that was in it went soft, I run a roller cam bearing and one of those bearing surfaces on the cam was flaking. Scored cylinder walls and was wreaking havoc in general. Last time the car was out was on Memorial Day at Infineon with the cam going south I went 11.04 at 152 with timer one at .000 and timer two at 4.87. The next pass was more of the same and the car should have been faster. Did some poking around and decided to just put it away and freshen it up to try and make the infieon race. Well we pulled the motor down then and just now getting it back in the car. I simple freshen up ended up being a reinvention after finding the roller cam had gone soft on one of the bearing journals. So new pistons, to address a longevity issue, this motor was from a heads up small tire car and never really set up for a ton of laps. We added some more material under the pin, new rods, and a new cam, rings and bearings. Hopefully we did not give up to much power with a new piston that is heavier but for longevities sake it is the right thing to do. Biggest issue was the cam, kept me out of the fun all summer. Trying to get/find a core when you run a 55MM cam, ina Big Block Mopar, that has a 4/7 swap AND all 5 journals being 55MM is not easy to do. So we will see what it will run son enough. We seem to think that the piston deal is gonna cost some power but not sure how that will translate to MPH on track. If I can get off the stop sooner it SHOULD go faster maybe, but time will tell.

Can I help if I like to go fast? :) Wish I could figure out how to go as fast as that Mustang can, I think I do ok for a 2885lb Super Streeter. Then again maybe I should go back heads up small tire racing. Can always dust that thing off and go run 7's all day long....

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Well when I tried to go to 3600 and then 3800 my car would have an occasional issue coming off the stop .We settled at 4100 as it seems to be happy there, at least not doing any funny stuff coming off the stop. Although it really comes up slow on the power til about 6000. My motor does not make much power down low. Peak HP is at 7700 and peak TQ is 6300. I cross the stripe at 7150-7200 now. Going to throw some gear at it before we come back out and see what that does to it as well as a fresh albeit down on power a little engine does.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Al... come on you raced more super street then that i've seen you at more.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

What is the MPH difference between a linkage stop and a plate stop? I have heard anywhere from 2-5 MPH, but htis was third party. I would like to put a plate stop on the car, because they are more consistant, but can't afford to loose too much speed.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

I've dyno'ed with and without our Dedenbear TS6 (one of the best plate stops) and the difference was about 35hp. If you buy the rule of thumb that you need about 15hp per MPH, that's a little over 2mph.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Jeff, honestly last year at Infineon was my first divisonal race in Super Street with the Barracuda. Before that I ran my Duster once in awile, but it was nowhere near as fast as the Cuda. It was a 130 car on a good day and we had a issues to say the least. Still trying to find a couple more mph CONSISTENTLY. Gonna throw some more gear at it while it's apart and see if that makes any difference. Would not mind getting a couple of mile per hour back but have had a hard time trying to figure out a good way to do it. Someday with lots of hard work I can only hope to be as good as you guys on here.

As for the linkage stop. I ran one on the Duster. I could not ever really get the car to run conssitent o n the stop. Probably as much a carb issue as the stop but I dont think I will go back to a linkage piece. Ik am sure they have thier place on an injected car etc but from my experience a plate seems much more consistent.

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Al ... I was going 160 back in 2002 and 3. You still have alot to learn besides I'm running the slowest tune up i have.

Just remember it takes the hole package to win not just mph!!!!

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

Jeff I agree I have a ton to learn, but I am trying to learn everyday..Oh yeah I was running 175+ in 02 and 03 :) But that was only on a true 10.5" tire at 3300lbs :)

You coming down to run in Bakersfield?

Re: t stop thoughts/debate
 

not at 10.90.