How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Ok, please do not take offence if you race in any of these classes. From the day that NHRA allowed these car I enjoyed watching these classes, they were very entertaining to spectate. Could we remove the throttle stops! I really enjoy watching T/D and T/S ,bracket racing you may say, but entertaining none the less. Braking systems are so much better now. Does anyone have a better idea than throttle stops. I love the color and the engineering that these class bring to NHRA. I'm looking forward to Indy. CR

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Real simple, remove the timers, before 1991 Super classes where enjoyable to watch with the throttle stops coming on when the cars went into high gear, it was side by side racing with a killer SG car going 145 and SC cars was lucky to see 160.

Politics like always came into play and NHRA wouldnt do anything about the timers cause sponsors where in the mix, now there is nobody with timers sponsoring so the time is now.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Lower the indexes and dump all the electronic rubbish. S/C should lower the index to at least 8.50, I would like it to get down to 7.90s. Super Gas is so boring, lower the indexes to at least 9.50. Ever see the fans hit the exits when these two classes come out? I know I'm one of 'em as it has been ruined by the gadgets.



SuperStocks@LionsDragStrip

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Knock a second off their class index. Timers will be useless at that point. Probably would put some guys out of business as far racing goes though.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I use to love watching those Scratcher Monza reach for the sky. Joe Covert and Steve Cohen battling out for the championship, it was always a top end game, love to watch them race those last 50' watching each other and who was going to dump who. These class have a lot of potential for attracting new blood, NHRA should act now. All class can be improved and I'm all for it if this sport is going to survive. I don't know if Compton and his followers really understand their core customer"the racers". CR

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Shouldn't this go to the .90's Forum ??
Or maybe the lounge ?

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I agree. 8.50/9.50/10.50. No delay boxes or timers. Go to a full tree. Leave the trans brakes in place. I started racing in SG when the fast cars were 140+ mph and the racing was close. We use to slow the cars down with ballast. Very effective. Remember when SG used to qualify 64 cars prior to first round. Here's the problem. Brodix, Dart and similar performance companies would loose revenue from no one needing to buy 632 CI engines. Now that Pandoras box has been opened, it's too hard to close it.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I always thought a nascar type restrictor plate under carb would be more entertaining than t/stops. At least they would be a steady pace down track without stopping and going. I think if someone wanted to spend a little time they could perfect this method. I think you could make a spacer for under the carb with a slot kinda like a cd player has and # the disc and keep changing them til the car is dialed in. These discs could be numbered like a jet for carbs. If anyone does do this remember you saw it on here and i want my royalties($$$$$$) for this idea.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I think all the throttle stop BS has ruined these classes. Take it from someone who has one of the slowest S/G cars in the US (112mph on the stop) but, even if we lowered the index and made the cars run a certain type of stop it will never draw the fans back. People are sooo brain washed with the NHRA coverage on ESPN and what "John Force is going to do next or what do the Forces do at the beach" that when the Pro's are done everyone wants to get to the pits to see if they can get their 15 minutes of fame on TV and go meet the drivers. Now I bet if NHRA does what NASCAR does and closes the pits down to the public and you have a pass to get in you might draw some more fans in the stands. I hate to say it but, this is for most if not all of the classes. I've brought friends to Divisional events and tried explaining Stk/SS to them and they basically tell me "That's too much thinking to do with this car runs this class cause of how it weighs and the cubic inc of the motor and what type of index it should run". I mean even Comp my friends have a hard time understanding but, of course they LOVE T/S cause of the type of cars that run it and how fast they go. We have to come to realize that we are the "Fill In's" at these events to help the Pro's get ready for the next round the only people who really care about us are people who used to drive or drive a S/G or Stock or Super Stk cars cause they can relate to it. Trust me I love watching Super Stk and Stk and I don't go hide once I'm done my S/G run. I just think we have to realize where we stand and not much can fix it cause as you say sponsors will lose money and the fans that did love watching us have moved on.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

All class are complicated just no more throttle stops or timers of any type. Just release your trans brake and go. One of the reasons for those class was to intice fresh blood into our sport not alienate spectators. I love to watch the different cars in those class but unfortunately get tired of watching cars after cars die a few feet off the starting line to explode three second after. These racer are as dedicated to their class as anyone else and I'm sure that they could come up with something to help the diehard racer interested. I don't care about the general population of spectator who just love John Force's circus act, I'm talking about you and I the people who show up to see the qualifying in the sportsman ranks and leave when the circus starts and goes into the pits to check out the great quality show of engineering machines that the individuals have built.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Drawing people in the stands is not the whole idea , getting them in the GATE is the ($$$) idea.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Good idea Danny. But I doubt anyone could turn this run away train around now.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Sorry Danny, a buddy of mine already does this for his 8.60 nova.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I agree with X-Tech man the train is already out of control and the conductor bailed out a couple of miles back.

Danny getting them in the gate is the idea and explaining to them what the idea behind .90 racing is what it's all about. Trust me I've had people come by my trailer and ask me why does it do this...and I turn the power off tell them to jump in and I give them a lesson and they are like "Wow...I understand this stuff now"

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I'd love to see what would happen if transbrakes (and pinionbrakes, remember them?) all went away.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Billy, my father always said they need to change SG to small blocks, Lenco's and vertex mag's, thats it, lol

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Ok guys.....this thread belongs in the 8.90-9.90 section...but..as you have stated....it is not a fan attraction....but trust me it's still a great class(8.90 or 9.90) to race....and the most heavily attended....so the people complaining aren't really the racers.....Don't get me wrong...I really like this super stock thing....but I still enjoy racing 9.90....it's fast ....and very competitive....and you can go 135 or 175 and still have a good chance to win...(and you don't have to work nearly as hard as you do in SS..more bs time).....The fans have to have time to buy a t shirt or hot dog anyway...lol..they are going to exit the stands for some class....

The SRAC is meeting about a proposed index change...but I doubt it will pass a vote....personally I don't really care what the index is....it's fine the way it is....but some of the guys look at it as a cost increase to lower the indexes....and we don't want that....

I feel like I can comment on the super class stuff as we have been racing it for a long time.......the Super Stock issues I stay out of until I am a little more of a veteran of the class.....

Don't we have enough issues to talk about in stock and super stock....without getting into 8.90 and 9.90....

What about those damn CJ's.....and the bad people that race them.....lol

Rock Haas
323 SS/DA
302 S/G

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

i got it combine everything and make it a giant bracket race,oh wait they have those.or for stock get rid of everything j and up ,for super stock m and up .who enjoys 13 second class cars.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

X2 JJ. Cant agree more

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

put some cubic inch restrictions like S/ST small block max 360 cu in. S/G big block max 440cu in. SC big block max 475 cu in. Might make things a little more interesting and less time on the stop. Drop the indexes .030 like the class cars.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

We run 3 cars in the .90 classes. One in S/St (10.90), one in S/G (9.90), and one in S/C (8.90).

This is an interesting conversation. I would prefer to run with no TS in my S/St car because it barely runs the number anyway. When I first started, all I did was adjust my trottle linkage and I ended up with a R/U finish at my 2nd divisional race. I thought, man this will be great when I add the TS. I added the TS the next year and haven't made it to another final since. (We only race 6 divisionals a year).

Now the other 2 cars we have run well under the index, so a TS makes since. Plus it's easier on parts.

We don't think TS cars are fun to watch unless your watching at the finish line.

We would run whatever the rules dictate, TS or not.

We would prefer to run in Stk or S/Stk but the thought of a teardown keeps us away from that. We prefer to do all our work at home and not at the racetrack. In Cordova 2 weeks ago, we were pitted right next to tech. We watched as they tore down the gentlemen in the PT crusier turbo. That guy didn't even get to make his 1st round run (which was a bye, I think) because he didn't have it all back together yet. What fun is that?

I guess the same point will be made over and over. It's no fun watching the .90 cars because of the throttle stops. If we take them away and everyone runs essentially the same MPH - how is that more fun to watch? The only logical answer is to lower the indexes. How far to lower them - I don't know. Didn't Stk and/or S/Stk just take a 3 hundreths hit on all indexes this last winter? Why not do the same with the .90 classes? Obviously all the cars at events are faster than they were 20 years ago, but the only classes that haven't had an index change are the .90 classes. I wish NHRA would lower them to 10.00, 9.00, and 8.00. That would make it easier to watch and understand. Obviously, I would have to change a lot on my car to run those numbers, but I would do it.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Brad Rose
Rose Racing

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

who enjoys 13 second class cars.[/QUOTE]

I do.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Many of us do for several reasons.

-Originality. Not everyone likes, nor wants to race, a 396 Camaro A/SA or run a SS/GT or Modified Cobalt/Cavalier. Cookie cutter cars = boring. I like a little more diversity. Pro Modified in it's early days was exciting. Now, not so much.

-The challenge. Taking a slower, lower powered, small-motored 4, 6 or 8 cylinder car and making it run quick, within a restrictive set of rules. How many people do you know that can take a '70 Nova with a 230 cid inline six-cylinder, using all OEM parts, and make it go mid 14's? I would dare say you could count them on one hand and have fingers left over. I dare say it's more of a challenge making a car like that run a second under than a BBC-powered Camaro.

-Budget. A lower-classed Stocker involves less maintanance and cost to race, compared to a big-block muscle car, seldom if ever spins the tires, almost never breaks anything. Plus, we get a "clean" tree.

There are probably more reasons, but you get the point. I know, slower cars aren't for everyone, but there are many of us that enjoy them.

B.D. (two time Top 10 IHRA Division 1 Stock points finisher in a high 17, low 18 second 110 cid 4 cylinder FWD four door Sunbird in HF/SA)

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Seem like everyone looks down on someone else. The Pros look down at the Sportsmen, NHRA guys look down at IHRA people, class racers look down at bracket racing, car guys look down at bikes, most people look down at sport compacts and everybody thinks the .90 classes suck. I may not pay any attention to or care about some of these options, but I'm glad they exist to help pay the bills, keep tracks, parts manufactures and sponsors in business and give a wider audience a reason to go drag racing.

I like class racing for what it is, a challenging, performance based eliminator with specific rules and limitations and I would like to do that "someday"..

The .90 class racers have a different objective. Run the number regardless the air, the track, the horsepower, etc. It is also challenging and much more difficult to adjust the car than the number on the window. Many prefer the pro tree/heads up style of racing. We all like to run heads up, don't we? Not many can afford to run the "big" pro tree classes though.

There are as many ways to utilize the hated throttle stop as there are racers and at this point, I don't know how you take them off without eliminating the classes all together. If there were a better way, someone would have already done it and made a pile of money.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I think you should be able to build what ever and go how ever fast you want. But, I would like to see throttle stops only being used at the top end. I would like to see 2 cars leave as hard as they can, and run hard, then have a stop slow them down. There are no grandstands and the top end of most tracks. It would be safer (lower speeds), less chance of jamming on brakes at 175mph plus. Plus, the people in the stands could better understand it. These classes have the largest population of racers with cars that are second to none. Ask the racers if they want to move the indexes. But, with moving the indexes would it requires a safety change? More safety equipment (due to the et)? Just a thought on a good subject. Also, random pairing for all super classes until say quarter finals. That would help the program run smoother. I have paired up 50+ S/C cars at Orlando before and that takes a while!!

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I started out in SST then SG, as everone went to a throttle stop so did I, that's when I realized I didn't like it any more. (Now I'm building a stocker) My suggestion is to dump the throttle stops and change the classes to A/G B/G and C/G like the Goodguys (now Heritage Series) much more fun to watch.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Make the rules the same as NHRA unleashed,no boxes or throttle stops.Permit a 2 step and thats it.This would also make it safer as the speeds would drop drastically.Just add weight to slow down or change shift pionts.No 8 sec cars would be running in a 10.90 class.I think as a spectator it would be much more entertaining.people who do not know drag racing don;t understand or like the start/stop/start racing.JMHO
Kevin

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Im for that !

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

x2

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

When Super Gas was introduce in NHRA racing I helped in building a couple of S/G Monza with friends, one was a homebuilt and the other was an Alston built S/G. In the homebuilt, we machine evrything the struts from Porches and rack pinions from Pinto's from junk yards, rear ends from a Versailles Lincoln Continental with it's discs brakes and the front brakes where Mustang 2. The other car had M/W everything with Lamb brakes. All this to say that I understand why timers and throttle stops were added:to save top end accidents, since a lot of the equipment was sometime not up to par, and many racers started to roll many cars NHRA probably decided to live with on problem than to have another more litigious concern"killing themselves or killing a spectator. I'm all for the throttle adjustement but could we have at the other end not at the starting line. Rock you're the expert in Super Gas and you have a great looking machine that I love to watch,what do you think could be adjusted for this old fart to enjoy 90's competition again and by the way knowledgeable fan go and buy their t shirts during the circus first round.lol CR

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

x2

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

My opinion.
Why are you asking "Classy Racers" their thoughts. You might as well go to the .90 forum and ask how much H.P. shout the CJ and DP get.
"Classy Racers don't know crap about how hard it is to put that .90 on the scoreboard on a consistent basis.

Now that being said.
I would'nt mind doing away with the timers but leave the indexes alone.

Chip

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

DW,
I bracket raced with those restricter plates for several years trying to run multiple classes in brackets. There is a secret to making them work and I will never tell.
LOL
Chip

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I decided to introduce this in general forum to have everyone give their opinion, Modified was sacrifice to introduce these new innovative class to stimulate fresh new blood,(NHRA wanted a better participation from their Bracket racer and this was the way to move up) I know NHRA loves all the money these class bring to their coffers but I did enjoy this class once and I know many Stock, Super Stock are also closet S/G, S.C,S/ST fans, many of their friends have gone Super Class racing. Lately I've notice an abrupt departure of young new racers for 10.5 and 5.0 and easy street (etc). Two years ago I was at the Virginia Race in the fall and saw a racer driving a Supercharged Dragster in Super Comp running over 215mph in S/C he was fun to watch nearly stopped on the track for 5 second before blitzing the rest of the 1/4 mile in 3 second. Was the track traction suppose to take this? It was entertaining to watch a couple of times but I could see everyone asking the same question, why! Like I've said opinions are just like(you fill in the blank) everybody has one. CR

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Cicero,
I agree about some of the innovations in the .90 classes. Last week at Martin there was a Roush mustang propane powered in the 10.90 class. In fact I think it got best engineered
Chip

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

i'll confess i put my 2cents in to see the reaction, sorry to the slower class cars truth be told i watch them all, i agree with chip putting .90 's on the board aren't as easy as it looks ,and i agree speeds in these classes are ot of hand ,id say set speed limits for each class.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I'm not going to knock any .90 classes. I have some good friends that run them. When I sit in the stands to watch them fans(the few that there are) always ask why does the car quit and then go again. They don't understand what is happening. Bob Frey is the only announcer I've ever heard who explains all of sportsman racing clearly enough for people to understand. Just like us you start changing all the rules(lowering indexes etc) more $$$$$$$$ to play.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Nitro Joe, Maybe if your parents removed their timers ,the rest will follow.

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

Hey Chebby..........I have given thought to going back to a high gear stop deal, like 150-155 mph maybe. The bad thing would be is the fast guys would be shoving it into reverse just to be able to back into me..............lol lol

Re: How to Improve S/G, S/C, S/St
 

I agree.

Throttle stops, timers, the old stutter boxes we used to run all take away from the driver. The driver and his driving the car ought to decide the winner not a bunch of electronics.....flipping switches and pressing buttons should win a race.......trans-brake and run it out the back door.

JimR