30 years ago at Indy
 

Interesting reading.

http://www.competitionplus.com/08_19_2004/sportsmen_fight.html

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Brings back great memories of the days of Bob Callahan from Atlanta....

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

I can't believe its been thirty years. Like they say, time marches on.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

The sixth car in line in that photo, with the off-center hood scoop, is Cotton Perry from Ringgold, Georgia. Cotton won that race. I saw him race through the seventies at my home track, Brainerd Optimist Drag Strip, in Ringgold, Georgia. He was rarely beaten.

MEMORIES.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

I never did understand why NHRA did that. Around here we had more Modified cars than Comp cars. I would have expected Comp to go before Modified.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Most people dont really realize or just forget what really happened in modified. It really was just was split in two. We had just finished our 69 TA in 1982. Marty Barrett said the split would be better as we had a break out class. It would give us a place to cut out teeth until we were ever fast enough to run with the big boys in Modified. We spent tons of 1982 dollars for the best stuff from the Pontiac camp and trying to learn.

What destroyed Modified for many was the alum SBC head being legalized at the same time. No one had anything for that! We had a 3450 lb 440 inch cast iron head 69 TA which was right on the mph record. We were learning how to hook that puppy! We used to call it, "Stacy turning on the spin cycle" (being the washer salesman:))

However, Harold Stout's new 82 firebird with the 392 (I think) cu in SBC and alum heads at a much lighter weight bombed the record from 9.41 or so to about 8.92 in the flash of the pan. (Mike McKinney driving) It was a killer combo no large cubic inch engine could compete!

We were told that the alum heads was so much........a disadvantage :rolleyes: yawn, but if we couldnt run with it.........build one! Our combo with cast iron heads and 440 inches was dead! It rusted in the cornfield for 20 years. Oh well rules change so we found something else to play, but not really quite as fun.

That is where we learned that racing has a big stroke of the pen and hard work with tons of money is sometimes marginal. So, we started working on some of those pen strokes for ourselves! I am so glad that many other brands have gotten into the picture like the Fords and Chryslers with those killer small blocks, but it did take awhile.

Lynn McCarty

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

i was their that year and remember that ordeal,146 mods for a 48 qual, field wow,you could get real close to tree and see some tachs during qualifying for modified,that class planted spectators in their seats,what a shame,,,,,,,,,

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Seems more like 29 to me.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

It was not just split into two classes. Some classes were eliminated, Cotton Perry's car was in one of them, and he couldn't just move to the next class or two up. Putting Modified cars that ran off their indexes into Super Stock with slower and more consistent automatic cars running off of dial ins made them uncompetitive. It also diluted the traditional Super Stock class, they just arbitrarily "stuck" some cars in Super Stock, none of them actually fit, nor were they in keeping with the spirit of the class. It was a truly stupid and short sighted decision.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Alan explain further cause I dont really get your point. As far as I knew it was all just weight per cubic inch. When you say eliminated was it like us just made obsolete?

Lynn

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

This was the first Indy I ever went to and I was a kid spectator. What I remember most oddly enough was the many racers back at the motel that were pissed off and sad at the same time. I didn't really know all the history to it at the time, but that stands out. We stayed at the Old Capri Motel that year and for many years at Indy. Bob Gipson had purchased Stan Stripe's A/MP car as a roller and had been holding off whether to build it as a modified or a SSer. This clinched it and it became a SSEA 427 69 Camaro.

As far as Stout is concerned, I think he beat most everybody in class. Except Willie Devore. In 1986 I was racing Bob Gipson's 81 Camaro SSAS. I thought I left a mile ahead of Stout's SBC Camaro and he passed me in low gear! LOL. Willie Devore out ran him for Class Honors with his SSAS stickshift Olds powered Olds cutlass. That was pretty cool too.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

For example, in the lower MP classes that NHRA completely eliminated, if you were already at minimum weight, and could not remove more weight, or build a bigger engine with the same HP per cubic inch, you were pretty much done. And even if you had to build a new engine, that means your current combination was done.

If you had a 300 cubic inch engine, were running in a lower class that NHRA completely eliminated, couldn't build a bigger engine, and couldn't take out more weight, that was the end of your combination. You could change to a different engine, but that wasn't the same combination.

As far as moving to Super Stock goes, remember that was back in the day of (at least supposedly) unported heads and such, among other limitations in traditional Super Stock classes. So, moving a 276 cubic inch, 11,000 RPM powered 5 speed car intended to run off the index, into a class full of comparatively mild automatic cars running in bracket mode was sort of like pushing a rope. Uphill.

A lot of people who were running Modified around here used up their engines, and then their transmissions, and went bracket racing or .90 super class racing. That's what we did. First the little 260-290 cubic inch engines went, replaced by a mild bracket big block, then when the Doug Nash stuff got tired, it got replaced by a PowerGlide, and eventually the stock front clip gave way to a tube chassis and a glass front end. Eventually, it was a Super/Pro and Super/Gas car. And then came throttle stops, delay boxes, and air shifters. By then, I hated all of it. I quit for nearly 15 years.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

I parked my C/SM Camaro at the end of 1979, so was not racing when they killed Modified. What was NHRA's reason? When I quit, it certainly could not have been lack of cars.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

We had a C/SM 68 Camaro when Modified died.This drove us to IHRA and econo modified (another dead class) . Only problem was all the heavy hitters from the south like Mark Osborne and such all had Gene Fulton motored Corvette Stringrays ,,,,,,,,ouch!

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Man this looks like it was such a cool class, wish I was alive when it was still goin.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

My car is picture #46 in that group!!! Thanx Comp 387

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

What about when we use to have to TECH in the " round de round " and they would take like 5 cars in at a time,,set around there all day, but when 5:00 came the saw horses went up and SEE YOU IN THE MORN. So you stayed in the Race car ,the car hauler or on the ground until the next day. When you did get thru tech you got to go inside the track and wait and wait and wait and wait some more and MAYBE get a time trial. At the end of the day you loaded up everything and went to the motel with your race car and all the stuff you had with you !!!! Party almost all night but you had to go to the track and line up out on the side of the road at gate 6 at 4:00 AM and wait for the gate to open to get a good parking place and start all over again "waiting" for a time trail,,, But i wouldn't take anything for this... I know we was "CRAZY" for doing it but it was INDY,,,,,,,,,, when it meant something to win class .................All class winners had to tear down, Just because I remember this dont mean I'M old,,, just means I've been going to INDY a LONG time!!! If you dont believe me ask some of the "old racers " and listen to their stories....

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Thanks for posting the link! :)
Bob Rice

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Yep, Stan remembers when you slept on the road that lead into Bowling Green, in a line to be teched, and the tech guys worked their way out towards the main road. He even remembers when the race at Bowling Green was THE Sportsnationals. And when the pro classes ran at the "points meets". But he's not old, he just knows all of the old guys, by their first names!

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

I thought we all teched at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway ? I liked that, because after you could tour the Museum !

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Just so we don't forget, NHRA replaced this with throttle stopped bracket cars..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ7rAqjXr_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXOf0...eature=related

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

From the article:
Those such as Gillig admitted that the local Modified participation had dwindled as the NHRA had alleged. Even he could see that there were fewer places to run Modified at the end than there had been when he started.

“Most of the tracks had switched over to bracket racing,” Gillig explained. “Those guys at the local tracks were itching to run national events. They were always quick to say ‘beat me and not my wallet.' The bottom line is that half of those guys couldn't shift a stick and they drove like little old ladies. That slowed them down. They went to automatics. We just didn't want to go to that.”

Sound familiar...today?

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

Alan,

Didnt know that about the small engines. I did know that Adger had an engine and combo that was completely eliminated. It is why Adger ran IHRA for years, but then receiving the similar fate.

What most people ignor is that it was predominantly an OEM headed class with larger cubic inches. When NHRA allowed the splayed valve heads it allowed small bore engines to be way more competitive. It is now virtually an aluminum small block class. As you increase in cubic inches the linear weight per cubic inch becomes a negative return.

In 2002 I started building a Wenzler headed Pontiac motor with cylinder head development going pretty well. We had 430cfm from a 2.3 valve going next to a 2.4 intake valve with some valve spacing arrangements. Our short block was a 4.35 bore coming out to about 400 inches with a short deck and flat top pistons. However...NHRA decided to add the part number rule to lock us all out once again.

Lynn McCarty

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

They outright killed H/MP, it didn't go to Super Stock or Comp, it was just gone. Cotton said he couldn't move up, and the engine couldn't get enough bigger, or the car enough lighter. He eventually ran an econo dragster for a while. But nothing ever as successful as the Pocket Rocket. We flogged stuff for a short while in C/MP, but it just wasn't working, so it evolved into a bracket and Super Gas car. We ended up with two S/G cars and a S/C dragster, and by 91 or so I was so sick of electronics I quit. I only went to the track with guys I did work for until 95 or so and then even quit that.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

I have always believed that sponsor pressure on NHRA due to the small cars and oddball combinations that were winning the races and championships, caused the demise of the class.

I can recall some manufacturers complaining to NHRA about cars such as Cotton Perry's Chevy, Buddy Ingersol's Turbo Pinto, Samurai Warrior Mazda, Gene Berg's VW, Bruce Sizemore 6-Cyl. Pinto and many other cars in the class. Their complaint was that these cars did not run off-the-shelf parts and they were getting paid contingency money. Nevertheless, the spectators loved to see these oddball cars and hear their high winding engines.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

The reason NHRA CHOSE to discontinue Modified eliminator was because of Super Gas plain and simple--In 1978 or 79 at the Winternationals they "showcased" a popular style of racing on the West Coast which was Super Gas or whatever they called it then/there. Lots of the local people in attendence at the track and NHRA saw an opportunity to rake in lotsa $$$$ without any work or very MINIMAL tech inspections on their part--- Ya got a helemt? seat belt? roll bar? your OK gimme a hundred bucks and go race.
If somebody walked up and offered NHRA (being the whores that they are) a half million bucks or more to run an eliminator that we will call Pro golf cart, guess what folks they would all of a sudden jump from being an Exhibition class OVERNIGHT to a full fledged Eliminator just like PRO MOD did. It's all about the money with these guys (current mgmt) and has nothing to do with NHRA is/was originally about !!! Comp 387

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

S/G started out as Pro/ Gas.

Re: 30 years ago at Indy
 

SS Div 6 ----I beg to differ with you, the cars that you cited DID in fact run a lot of the same off the shelf parts as a "normal" SBC did---Rings/bearings/ spark plugs/carbs /clutches/tires/ ignitions /gaskets-etc were all currently manufactured and sold over the counter to VW /Mazda/Pinto etc guys!!! The problem IS/WAS NHRA squeezing and demanding MORE money for display areas on the Midways at national meets. Those companies that were there gave away and sold lots of merchandise... It was the charge($$$$$) for booth space as well as those unpaid contigency monies that NHRA POCKETED that escalated dramatically that had many manufacturers choosing to either not participate in the NHRA sponsorship program or on th Midway areas at National meets--Comp