Alcohol dragster?
 

What happened to Mark Niver? My audiocast was down till it was over.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

I'm on espn3.com and they had one go into the sandtraps when chute failed to open... It folded the front wheels around the driver compartment.. Not much being said and not sure who this is.. But still down and not sure what is happening.....

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

The announcer said they would be down about 20 minutes and that was over a half hour ago.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

There is a post on Yellow Bullet that said he expired.
God speed, Mark. RIP!

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

competition plus is saying law enforcement has stopped the show

http://www.competitionplus.com/index...ace-in-seattle

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

WTF is going on with all these cars losing/malfunctioning parachutes.They're killing thes poor guys and there's no improvements in sight with a comparatively unchanged system.
NHRA better get their head out of their ***** before we lose anyone else and also the fact that the liability insurance increases will be paid by you know who.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

personally i think the dragsters and funny cars should have tubs in them like Formula One and the drag boats. F1 cars have hit walls at 11+g's and they walk away. Build a tub around the driver to protect them.That car rolled up like a snail or a hose, i knew when i saw it that it could not be good.

I think they also need a third emergency chute, who cares about aerodynamics.

God speed, word on the other forums is the driver did not make it.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Sun, 11 Jul 2010, 08:12 PM

NHRA Statement Regarding Crash at NHRA Northwest Nationals
Courtesy of NHRA Communications








KENT, Wash. --

Mark Niver
Top Alcohol dragster racer Mark Niver, 60, from Phoenix, was involved in a fatal incident today when his dragster crashed in the shutdown area during eliminations at the NHRA Northwest Nationals at Pacific Raceways. NHRA officials are investigating the accident.
NHRA and Pacific Raceways officials extend their deepest sympathies to the entire Niver family.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

I saw it on the webcast, his chutes deployed, but detatched from the car instantly!, he then went thru the sand and hit the first net hard!, so hard the chassis appeared to "fold up"!, it stayed tangled in the first net. I found out he died from his injuries....R.I.P.
Seems like the nets need to be examined, or replaced with another type of catch system. Its gonna get interesting now. I dont think length of shutdown had anything to do with this one.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

isn't it weird that all the improvement to the sand trap area that was to be safer doesn't seem to be working. sure it's keeping the cars within the track but doesn't seem to have much give. i feel bad for the 2 families in the last few races. r. i. p.




jeff d.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Terrible news ... R.I.P.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

This is really sad. I feel for the family and crew of Mr. Niver. I was at Atlanta Dragway a couple of years ago when a similar incident occurred. That was the first time I ever saw a hearse show up at a dragstrip and I hope it’s the last. I do have a question. Why do the chutes not fall off of Fuel cars? Are the requirements for the mounting points more substantial on the fuel cars?

A few observations:
1. The mounted points and any related hardware needs to be doubled in size/thickness immediately.
2. These cars need a 3rd parachute incase the first set fails.
3. Any or all of the chutes need to be able to be deployed by a 3rd party in case the driver becomes incapacitated.
4. The netting systems need to be re-designed. They work great for door cars (except for Woodrow’s), but not for dragsters and funny cars (or motorcycles). If you think about the physics of hitting that net at that speed and the parts that can come into contact with the driver, it just does not make sense. There has to be an alternative.

The last time I checked there has not been any NASCAR driver’s killed since Dale Earnhardt and these guys are crashing into stuff at 200MPH all the time. The reason is not luck, but that NASCAR decided to spend the money for the R&D and upgrades to protect the drivers. Has NHRA crash tested anything into one of these netting systems and studied the results?

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Another fatality today sadly proving that accidents involving non-deploying chutes--- or chutes detaching from car upon deployment needs IMMEDIATE attention. Cars hitting the sand traps at high speed appear to be skimming over top of the sand and slamming into these un-safe nets resulting in un-survivable impacts.... How many lives have to be lost before changes are made to both improving racecar chute systems and emergency slowing (traps)and containment(net) systems? Maybe non-flammable large containments of small foam cubes or blocks would work better than these deadly net systems....just my thoughts on another sad raceday. :( WJ

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As I said before.....Isnt it about time NHRA changed the rules and slowed the alcohol and fuel cars down. Smaller cubes, smaller blowers, etc. ?

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Why not quad chutes? Seriously,let's take some personal responsibility.What do you want radio-controlled racing?

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

I don't think you want 4 chutes,especially deploying all 4 at the same time.The negative G's are about -5G's with 2 chutes.
The attachment and deployment methods need imediate attention,in my uneducated opinion in this area.I just wish they make these cars as safe as possible.
Besides this issue it seems the Pro Stock guys are getting fed up with "Dim" Light and Co.Krishner said maybe it's time for the Pro Stock drivers need Larry Morgan buttons that say "You can't fix stupid".
Just saw WJ's tirade to Gary Jerrold.He's my hero.
Quote WJ: "It'll fall on deaf ears.All they want is those fuel cars".Exit stage left.I wish Larry Morgan was interviewed.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Are these 2 Alcohol classes (dragster and funny car) safety teched before racing program starts at each National Event by NHRA? And what do they look for? Anyone in the know...Thanks. WJ

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Tail hooks and arresting cables across the track flush in pavement grooves that are deployable via sensors or manual intervention.
Not too hard to figure out...I've emailed a few people within NHRA and never received a reply. I also emailed Jim Head. I dont expect a reply, just some action.

RIP Mark.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

What is NHRA supposed to do - have a person in every pit and check
that the chute is attached properly every time? Isn't that the crew's
responsibility? You can put on 10 chutes but if someone doesn't attach
it correctly you will still have failure. This is a tragic accident but it our choice to race and
I really don't see how NHRA is responsible.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

I agree with you to an extent, Vic.. the crew has to assume the responsibilty of putting their driver in a safe race car.. also, the driver has a responsibilty to himself to check a few things before climbing in the car.. that being said, and realizing that sometimes we are in a hurry to make the call, I think NHRA should have a Tech Inspector in the staging lanes checking chutes and mounting hardware..

During tech at Bristol, I was made to pop my chute and stretch it out on the ground.. it was then inspected thoroughly.. the tech guy then picked up the chute and yanked on it several times, testing it's mounting hardware.. actually broke a piece off my body while doing it.. then watched as I re-packed the chute.. I was a little pissed at this procedure to say the least and I really didn't get.. NOW, I get it.. thanks for checking TECH GUY!!!

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

I'm waiting to see the entirely new back half for all race cars that will be required when they require racers install tail hooks for arrester gear.

NHRA doesn't necessarily need to check parachutes at every pass. But they should be checking the entire parachute system during the tech inspection. We never took the parachutes off of the dragster to pack them when we had it, I don't see too many teams taking the parachutes loose from the car when they pack them, unless they've been damaged. And if they've been damaged and replaced during a race, another inspection of the system should be required.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Chute deployment and failure have been the cause of a lot of the recent incidents.Don't those idiots in Ca. see the need to review equipment and procedures pertaining to this equipment??????????????????????????
It's terrible seeing and hearing about these people getting killed on a semi regular basis.

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TO START OFF WITH REGARDS TO THE FAMILY. now are they required to change chutes after 2 years like we do belts, or do they change them sooner? i know nothing about alcohol cars. the fuel cars were only using 1 chute. seems strange its mostly the alcohol cars that are having this problem (besides SCOTT we still miss him). i'm not trying to be a smart a@@ about belts im just wondering.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

CNN video interview with racers that knew him.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/12/...eo=true&hpt=T2

RIP

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

When I went through tech in Seattle they actually made me back up because they were checking the chutes on all the .90 cars. later in the day I saw they were doing the same thing on the Comp cars. My thoughts are that they need to be replaced on a regular basis. It’s funny how they are really anal about dated belts but you can wear a 15 year old /1 or /5 nomex suit that’s been through a regular washing machine 100 times. I know people that have had the same chute on their car for over 10 years. This is an item that should have an SFI tag and expiration. I looked in the rule book and if I’m not mistaken it looks like there is no SFI specification or expiration period on parachutes. For advanced ET classes they need some regulation or oversight on parachutes.

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thats unbeleavable 10 years how much stain did they go through? they do need to be SFI.............

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Tail hooks instead of catch nets. I'm all for that.

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I suggested that after the accident at Englishtown and was told it was stupid and too expensive/impractical.I still think it can be done.Someone said all the tracks couldn't comply.They don't have to,the Safety Safari crew can set up and operate the system,which would have to be designed to be adjusted to stop the full range of cars in compitition.
The cost,in the long run,would probably be cheaper than making the insurance company
rich.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

We all want to find solutions in our sport for saving lives. However, there is a big difference between the dynamics of an aircraft catching a hook on the deck when compared to a light weight race car.

An F-18 weighs around 35,000 lbs on final approach to hit the deck and the speed is around 145~155 mph. A dragster or funny car is much lighter with terminal speeds exceeding 260 mph. A heavy fighter airplane can run over the cables on the deck and the landing gear squawk switch will deploy the hook automatically.

A lightweight race car at high speeds running over the cables would be propelled off the ground and loose control and would also require the driver to deploy a hook manually.

One problem with sand traps is when the sand gets wet, it will compact creating a hard surface. A better solution would be substitution of the sand with small gravel the same way they do with highway sections that have runaway truck provisions.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

We are sorry to hear of the death on Mr Niver.


http://www.competitionplus.com/index...atally-injured

Watching the video of the accident, the car folded
over on itself when it hit the netting and it didnt look
as bad as it was.


These things are happening way too much and
something HAS to be done,I just dont know what.





Its not just the Pro cars having problems.

We had a twin turbo Outlaw car have the parachute malfunction here at SAR
a few weeks ago.Car went through at a high 6.XX @ 210 plus and when the chutes
were deployed the cm cross member they attached to broke in half and the mounting
loops slid off of it. He went off the end and totaled the car,he suffered a compound
fracture to his ankle(foot still on the brake pedal trying to slow down we believe)and
other injuries.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

the catch nets need to flex and slow the car down......not 2 steel cable tied to posts instant stop no give.....
How about the cable on pulleys that are tied to weights that gradually catch and slow down as the car goes in to the next catch net same system?

The way the system is now I think I would rather scrub against the wall and go sideways in to the net.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

I agree with SSDiv6. My dad has been a truck driver for forty years, and once had go into one of those runaway truck ramps when the brakes failed. They are made of pea gravel. When he stopped, about halfway up, he was buried up to the axle in gravel. Now, granted, a 80,000 pound semi will probably sink better going 70-80 mph than a 2,000-2,400 pound dragster/funny car at much higher speeds, but might be worth a shot.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

The text in bold is similar to how the arrester gear on an aircraft carrier works. It might be possible to use that idea as a way to improve the net. However, such a system is going to be extremely difficult to design, install, and maintain, and would likely require adjustment for each class of car that runs. That means more expense, and more down time, NHRA won't like that idea. But the nets themselves should have a considerable amount of elasticity to begin with.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

What about some form of this system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier ?

Maybe rows of them instead of sand?

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Seattles shutdown is pea gravel.Just saw a touching picture
posted on another site by a Seattle worker.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

N H R A must look at formula 1 and how the BRAKES are on those cars and the tub around the driver. those brakes can stop the formula 1 car at 220 mph, it can stop an
alcohol dragster/funny car and for that matter a nitro car and even pro stock. The brakes on the PRO / alcohol category cars are a JOKE compare to formula 1. Jeff Gordon drove a formula 1 car a couple of years ago and he said what is more incredible than the excelaration is the braking on the car. Luke SS 311

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

It has gravel, however is not deep enough.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

The tires on drag cars prevent the use of brakes such as those you find in F1.

If you've ever seen what happens when even a Super Comp dragster gets hard on the brakes, you'll understand.

Re: Alcohol dragster?
 

Recognizing that everyone wants to come up with ideas to make our sport safer, you cannot compare our type of racing from the dynamics and physics involved with other motor sports such as NASCAR and Formula 1. A monocoque chassis design of a Formula 1 car is not feasible for a dragster or funny car. The brake dynamics are also different. There are not frontal crashes in Formula 1 and NASCAR at speeds exceeding 250 mph. Most of their crashes are sideways and when they are frontal, they have already scrubbed speed before they hit.