Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Just curious if they must have correct year seats? And if you have documentation that a car was built a certain way and its in the guide when does interior become an issue. If there is any confusion about what was there or not we have pictures from 1967 and documentation showing parts were available. We arent talking about paper cars we are talking about Seats and the type they came with.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

In my opinion... Who cares what seat it has. As long as it looks right.

Having problems with the wagon still? Idk what that deal is... That high back seat has to be a few pounds heavier at least!

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Back in mid 90's they made me change seats in my car from camaro to dodge dart when some racers complained. Lately it is my opinion and observation that as long as they are automotive not aftermarket ....they do not seem to care anymore. A lot of late model seats are way lighter than our old stuff but I have been nervous to change them.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Herb I asked this same question over in tech awhile back. According to NHRA as long as the seats are from the same manufacturer it is ok.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Ill explain the whole issue when there are more responses, but with all the history books out there about muscle cars what I have is legal but some tech people dont think so due to 2 crying racers. The cool thing is business is good and pistons will be out soon.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

I never thought seats could give you an advantage.:D

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Upholstery does not matter. Seats do. In recent years racers have been "caught" with 4-door front seats in 2-door cars. 4-door front seats do not have seat backs that fold forward allowing access to rear seat area, making them lighter weight. A few years ago a well known racer was told to remove his late model Econoline bucket seats from his early Mopar max wedge. He claimed he could not find an original bench seat. When he was told not to come back until he had the correct seat, he showed up at the next national event with a seat that matched the rest of the interior perfectly.

If the stock seat rule was to be "liberalized" allowing any seat as long as it was from the same manufacturer, it would not be long before all Mopars would all be using Bostrom buckets from '68 hemi cars, all Chevys would be using seats from '67 Camaros, and Fords would be installing buckets out of '65 Mustangs.

Everyone knows that seat swaps in Stock are to gain class advantage by way of lighter weight. If someone is running a rare or older car that has hard to find interior parts, then they just need to keep searching until they find the correct seats. Stock Eliminator does not need anymore liberalized rules!

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

We gained 10lbs going from a bench to buckets. Reaching a floor mounted shifter with the factory bench is a safety hazard as you need 7' long arms to reach it. I understand rules are rules. This car was going to be raced at one, maybe 2 races this year. I don't have time to race it so we were going to let a friend run it at Piedmont. Seems there are some little cry babies. I'd hate to know I was afraid of a car or driver to the extent that I'd protest their heavier than factory seats. Don't forget the car weighs over 3950lbs with minimum weight at 3845. I was usually the slowest car in stock. Not exactly trying to set the world on fire here.

Luckily racers are like hair stylist, they love to gossip. Already had 3 people call me to tell me about the complainers. I'll look forward to seeing their rods/pistons laying on the ground at a future race.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Unless you have a factory authorized purpose built race car, then they can use any seats they want.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Herb,
I know they made Terry Taylor change the seats in their Nova one time. They had 70 model seats and were claiming a 71. I know this for fact because I bought them and put them in my 70 nova. I don't see why that was a problem. They spent a lot of money buying these seats only to be told no.
My personal feeling is if it is a factory seat of same manufacture it should be o.k.. I don't think everyone is going to run out and by Camaro or Cuda seats as Travis stated. Mainly because you can't find them either.
Let us know when you have the rod pulling party.LOL
Chip

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

I know I'm far from the most positive person when comes to bracket racing and racing in general these days. It's incidents like this that make me that way. Racing has gone away from being fun with things like this. Most that know me, know I raced to simply have a good time. I raced to get away from work. Then to come to the track, listen to the bitching over something that has no effect on the outcome of a race, crazy. I'd hate to know my life was so boring that I had to be obsessed with someone else's car. Much less a car that isn't in their class. There wasn't a SINGLE K/CM in our division last year or this year as far as I know. If there was I'm sure it would outrun me as I was usually .4-.5 under the index.

I imagine it was the same person that complained we didn't have a cage in the car. Nothing like being at piedmont last year with the tech guy coming over asking if we had a cage in the car. It's a stationwagon with 500 window's with bars running everywhere. I didn't know ray charles was racing stock last year.

Oh well, is what it is. I'll make sure to bring the grill out for the rod/piston party. Going to be fun!

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Travis has it correct, and i agree. There is no need for more loosening of the rules in stock eliminator.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

The rule book says "MUST HAVE FULL FACTORY TYPE UPHOLSTERY" it say nothing about being correct per year and make. This is why I called NHRA and asked. I was told that my assumption was correct but NHRA prefers to have seats of the same manufacturer. We are gong to build another Monte Carlo and it currently has a bench seat. I was concerned for safety reasons and due to my size. I think I can find alot more to complain about than a guy having a different seat in his car. So long as I make weight who cares what seat I or anyone else is running as long is is factory type. If they have the same option to run a different seat which according to NHRA they do, it is their option. If they choose not to do so and it gives me an advantage then so be it. Don't like it change it.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

[QUOTE=Mike McCandless;

Oh well, is what it is. I'll make sure to bring the grill out for the rod/piston party. Going to be fun![/QUOTE]

Whats the point.......I thought IHRA had changed the piston and rod rule in the last year or so to read that only the visable top of the piston had to be correct? There are several that have moved ring packs, lite pistons and pins not to mention lite rods with toyota rod bearing sizes on the cranks AND dont forget diguised ported heads. Its not just the crate motored cares either. Besides bucket seats in a car that only came with a bench seat looks like another bracket car. Stock has been "DUMBED" down enough like Travis said.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Floyd,
That wording has been the same in the rulebook for at least 20 years(word for word), we have never been allowed to change seats in that time

You did the right thing by asking nhra, my suggestion is that you get it in writing, because you will be disappointed if another nhra person makes you change them.

Can't you just put some monte buckets in there ? I thought you could get a bench or buckets in most Monte's

Generally keep 2 things in mind

1. not every tech person is going to be correct every time

2. look at the rulebook as a general thing, if they were specific on everything it would be 100 times bigger, generally if other seats were allowed it would read something like"any seat allowed from same manufacturer" but again be carefull, get it in writing.

I am trying to keep you from a potential problem down the road

both of my stockers would be better cars with lighter seats, i could use the wt reduction to my advantage, but until i see it allowed i ain't changing them.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

I think Travis spelled this out pretty well.
No one at NHRA wants to nit pick what kind of seats you have.
However , a 4 dr seat in a 2 dr car, or buckets seats in a station wagon is pushing the envelope too far for Stock (as in "Stock appearing)
If Mopar had a rare bucket seat option in the 60's, then those are the exact type of seat one should be able to run, complete with factory floor brackets ,..and documentation.
Otherwise, notch the bench seat frame and have it upholstered that way, or build a shifter mount that moves it up and back over the seat ,within reach.
It's as simple as that.. In fact,...Next question?

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

You are correct, Dave. My brother had two Montes. One had buckets, the other has a bench.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Bostrom is still in business selling seats. Early Camaro and Mustang seats can be found on e-Bay. While they are probably expensive, those who have unlimited dollars to spend on their racecars do not care about price. They would only care about getting class advantage over their competitors if the seat rule were to be opened up.

Then there are those who wonder why a lot of racers will not race on the other side even if a race is within close driving distance. This discussion of "just use any OEM seat" is a prime example of why there are not many crossovers. A large majority of Stock racers seem to prefer to race where the rules are at least kept in check.

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

seats Yes---Gas cap No

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Well if we are going to argue over correct year seats then we should also argue over changing actual year model of car to benefit using a different combo, using metric transmissions, fuel cells, 2 steps, hoods that were not available on a paticular model, shifters, wheel diameter and type, brakes, removable steering wheels, any alteration of the dash or interior including removing the factory radio and speakers, data recorders, aftermarket fuel injection systems, aftermarket computers, ignition systems, cam specs, head specs, rods, pistons, aftermarket rear ends, gear size and the list goes on and on. Yes the Monte came with buckets but I prefer the mid 80's style Camaro seats with the higher back. If we want one rule then we need them all. How about the car you race must have had the same engine and trans combo you run now. Not available with but actually came with. Again, I don't see any harm in changing seats from the same manufacturer so long as I am still legal in weight.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

And I'll bring the beer! Jim

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

The issue is this. We have a set of 70 and later HIGH BACK bucket seats in a 67 Dodge wagon. The Duster seats as I will call them are the heaviest Bucket Seat made. The B Body seat is a lower back seat with a head rest. Its LIGHTER. The Bench was quite a bit lighter. Our seats have the track and they work if we pull one bolt out. They tilt forward as they dont need to in a 4 door wagon but they do. There is no Center Console which they are to have. I also have a 1967 Parts catalog which shows an optional bucket seat like they used in all Dodge Chargers as an optional seat for the wagon. They also built 383 4 speed wagons in 67 with Bucket seats STANDARD. Oh yea and lets not forget Lee Smiths car, with one with a hood scoop and the battery moved to the trunk per the NHRA classification guide. Guess what it ran SS/G in NHRA with you guess it Bucket seats. We were told we could notch the bench seat. Well I guess now Ill have to take it to one of the best fabricators in the USA (My DAD) to notch all but maybe 4 inches out of the factory bench, guess what then it will be almost 25 lbs lighter than the 2 buckets that are in there. Keep in mind we were using the HEAVIEST buckets made. So the track lost an entry, IHRA lost a membership, and we have factory documentation that 67s came with buckets. Have a nice day. I remember now why I quit in 96.


Herb Jr

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

It's OK if IHRA wants to let you race with a feather duster stuffed up your butt...

Leave NHRA STOCK alone because we knew the rules when we built the car....

If you don't think that putting every lightweight component that you can find forward of the rear wheels then you better take up another hobby....

Bob

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

The Tech Dept enforcing correct seats may be why 1,093 Stock racers competed for points at NHRA in the 2009 season.

Already for 2010 there have been 323 Stock racers running and a lot of Divisions have not even started their seasons yet.

Enforcing seat rules must be working at NHRA. I plan on doing my part.

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions and showing data for proving a point expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions and what else I said.)

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Well good for you. In little IHRA, nobody is in my class. So rather than dump a ton of time and money into a car, I got a car that will never have a heads up run. Like I said, I ran .5 under the index, last year I never had a car in my class. I work smart, not hard. Maybe you should choose a different combo and not worry so much? :D

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Travis, Can you show me anywhere in the rule book where it says I must run the seats that came with my car? Just curious and want to make sure I did not misread anything or misunderstand the tech department in Glendora.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Travis is the NHRA Div 3 tech guy and a damn good one at that. One of the best and VERY knowledgeable when it comes to stock and S/S class cars. Its evident that you dont know enough about stock or class racing to even know who your talking to or why stock is required stock seats. If my friend from Md. hadnt sold his 65 Red Ply. K/CM classed car you woud have plenty to worry about in a heads up race. Right now he is looking for another car to install his drive train in so you might as well "sell the **** house" as they say. Put the right seats in the car, make it run quicker by working on it and quit whinning.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Travis or whom ever,
I would like to know how you identify the exact year-model of seats. Is it just looks or is there some numbers/pictures (what ever)?? In other words: is the decision of the seat legality subjective or objective?
I have a friend building, piecing together, a car and we were wondering if that was something else to look into..
Thanks

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Yes

Ken Keir
1470 A/SA

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Terry the point is the car came with bucket seats and I'm told I have to replace them. High Back or Low back its not the point. THe car will have a 383 in it for NHRA stock for my son, I guess I will have to figure out what Travis wants. I personally met Travis in 94 at VA and he teched my lebaron with no problem.

I'm only bitching because the car came with something and I cant run that.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Thats about the stupidest post I have ever read. A feather duster stuffed up your butt....what the hell does that mean.

My car is 450 lbs heavy on the rear wheels if I put a lighter seat in then its 475...I dont give a rats *** about more weight on the rear of the car.

Herb Jr

Oh yea we have 12K in a stocker that is only .5 under...The car made 37 runs in 3 days at Piedmont in November for the 20K race....Nobody has more fun racing than we do, that is why we do this and we do it as a family with my kids as well.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Ok Travis now Ill ask you directly. We are going to put a 383 in this car for J/SA and SS/LA, can we run bucket seats in a station wagon?
Its a 1967 Dodge Coronet Wagon, 6 Passenger. I have a parts book I can send you a picture of the 67 seat that was available if you need me to.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Quote: A feather duster stuffed up your butt....

Thats about the stupidest post I have ever read.

I was wondering that myself Herb. LOL

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

So they insist on identifying the correct seat for the car but don't seem to care if the foam is 1/4 the thickness or half the springs are missing, or it has fixed CM tubing to hold the seat to the floor instead of a track. :confused:

I would think if the people that write the NHRA rulebook were REALLY concerned about the correct appearance it would state in the rule book "must be correct seats for make, model and year of vehicle that is claimed" It really would be that simple as they use this phrase many other times when deemed important.

In the current writing, it wouldn't last a second in court if somebody had 1967 Camaro Buckets in their 1970 Camaro (Stock class). The rules says very explicitly "must have full factory type upholstery.......and front and rear seats" (I skipped the part about carpet, door panels, etc). Doesn't say seats must be from make / model / year claimed.
If it's a concern, change the wording in the book.

This was the same issue a few years ago about radiators. Basically a 1967 Camaro could get away with a 2002 Camaro (lite-weight) radiator as it was "the same model". The rule was revised to spell out the radiator must be from the make / model / year claimed. It's that simple.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

What doe the NHRA TECHNICAL POLICIES & PROCEDURES
say about seats in the upholstery section?

Anyone have a copy and be willing to quote chapter and verse?

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

I hope they dont check the radiator in my car, the OEM part number is right on it. Its out of a 1961 Chrysler Imperial 413 car, holds about 5 gallons of water, WHY, well the car never gets hot, it was free and in perfect shape.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

When the rulebook says "factory" or "like-factory" those words refer to what came on that particular car, or model of car. Therefore, you can not use every part from that same manufacturer which has be built in the last 100 or so years.

If you can't reach the shifter, build a mounting bracket for the shifter to move it closer to you. I've seen this in many bench-seat Stockers. Problem solved.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

2009 Rulebook (newest one I have in print)
Page 14, How to use this rulebook, paragraph 3, "it is the general rule that unless optional performance equipment or performance-related modification is specifically permitted by this rulebook, it is prohibited".
Page 15, paragraph 2, "Unauthorized cars, parts, and/or equipment will not be considered approved by reason of having passed through technical inspection at any time, or any number of times. Moreover, having passed through technical inspection at any time, or any number of times, is not a defense to a violation found on further inspection".
Travis, I'm a little disappointed in you! I thought you would have quoted this from memory! (giggle)

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

2009 rulebook (newest one I have )
Page 110, Interior:6, paragraph 2, Upholstery, Must have full factory-type upholstery, including factory-type floor mats or carpet, door panels and headliner, and front and rear seats".
It then goes into rear seat removal for roll bar.
Page 271, section 19, general regulations, interior:6:2, upholstery, seats, paragraph 2 "All seats must be upholstered, or as noted under Class or SFI requirements".
See my previous post.

Re: Do Stockers need correct year seats?
 

Billy, I am not wanting to run a performance or aftermarket seat. I just simply want to run a seat from the same manufacturer that was in a different model. It says factory type and that is exactly what it is.