Hazmat fines
 

How many Hazmat Fines have been handed out ??????? A friend a Div 2 points meet said they were handing them out like candy.

Hammer

Re: Hazmat fines
 

Here is a stupid question.. Is NHRA handing out these fines? Are they following State
HAZMAT laws per state ? Or did they just come up with a general guide for all NHRA races?
I have not had a chance to go through the training video yet but How in the world can they fine someone inside a facility that is private owned and fine you if you are doing something that is legal outside the gate in your state???
This is not making sense now because I thought this was a video to be viewed for a National event entry how can they enforce it at a Div race if you have not seen or signed a release of some sort ? did they had out a info flyer or something prior to the event??
Please explain someone.

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This whole deal just makes me sick. I originally joined NHRA in the 70's because NHRA provided me with a place to compete that was compliant with State laws. Rather than NHRA making a racer friendly enviroment for racers to observe proper hydrocarbon disposal they have become another obstacle for racers to deal with. Why is NHRA putting up these barriers for their own membership. It kind of reminds me of how our government responds against the will of it's electorate. They should be helping us be as green as possible rather than just making rules and fines to generate more revenue.

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I was at the race in gainesville, no fines that I heard anything about. But if you want to dispose of oil at the track thier is a enviromental company that has set up shop. However you have to pay around $30 bucks to get rid of the oil, 25 dollars for the application fee.

Andy Fogle

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Bob, this is coming from their lawyers, to keep their asses clean. Nothing more.

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Well how did we get the Oil down on the track fine tossed? was it done by the SRAC ?
Do we need to make sure this penalty is a level playing field also? to make sure its just not enforced on the sportsman racer's , It sounds to me if they do it at Divisionals because there are more of those races the Sportsman racer could be impacted much more....

Maybe we should have SRAC member walk through the pro pits at Nationals to police there pit areas and take photos to see just how compliant they are!
These fines could make or break a sportsman racers budget so why should we just sit back and not be proactive ourselves and do something because this is getting out of hand.

Im saying doing this the correct way, Take photos and present them privately at the meeting's and say ok how can we correct this? Not just just point fingers and say hey this is BS look at what the pro's do!!!! Just a thought.

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I read their enviornment thing when I entered the Gators. Looks like a lot of it came right out of the Dealers Association manual. I didn't hear of any enviornment stuff at Gainesville. There was a company soliciting new sources to purchase used oil from. Seemed to be ok. We asked for a proposal for all our stores. I don't know about the charge to dump oil. Fortunately we didn't need those services. The regs are a real deal wheather it's NHRA or Southland Dodge (my company). We learn to live with them. They turned out to be not so bad after all. I'm sure we will get more details on NHRA's stance soon, in real English so we know what they are after.

Re: Hazmat fines
 

:eek:


Oh. Must be one of those "Green Jobs".

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Jeff,
Being in the industry also we did learn to cope with all the regulations and abide by them,
It did take years to learn all the do and don't laws because they change all so frequently look what happened with the solvent issue's that has been a nightmare to keep up with, How is a racer that is not up to these standards going to keep up, Will they just be slapped with a fine because you know as well as I do if NHRA reports to the EPA that hey look we are up to standards, Like a shop the EPA will be really involved. How will NHRA educate all the racers like you as a Automotive Dealer had to do with all your employee's ? I watched that video and yes it is a general guide but how in the world can that be implemented to levy a fine. There is no list of what the fines for such infractions could be. I think they do need to implement something but they are just slapping people with a fine. How about like a shop manager would do to a employee if he catches something, No Warning Policy Here Come on give me a break....

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I was at Gainesville and was handed a package of information while sitting in the ridiculously slow moving line at the gate on Thursday AM. The company that has contracted with NHRA to manage our environmental compliance was essentially selling their services and products. The package included a NHRA release form which had to be signed and turned in to the trailer when you registered after tech (essentially indemnifying them from everything). The information in the package also included a copy of the relevant STATE (Florida) statute concerning hazardous materials and their disposal. My take on it was that at Gainesville it was primarily a state issue, not federal. There was also a statement from the NHRA on their policy toward environmental issues, which puts 100% of the responsibility on the "Participant". It also prohibits the use of any halogenated or chlorinated brake cleaners. The statement also requires that waste oil generated during the event must be disposed of through the licensed HazMat vendor at the track. The implication is that you are not supposed to take it with you.

The company representatives were friendly enough, but it was pretty obvious that they are also doing their best to profit from the situation. They take waste oil for a price, and the price is based on how contaminated the used oil is. If it is full of solvents, particularly chlorinated stuff, it costs the racer more to get rid of it. They charge for the test for contaminates and disposal of the oil . It cost $45 to set up an account which included two tests. It cost $35 for a drum of non-hazardous oil (or $0.75/gal) and went up to $425 for a badly contaminated drum (or $125 for 5 gal).

The included (and highlighted) Florida statute requires that any container with waste oil be clearly marked and in good condition. If it is not double-walled it must be stored on a secondary containment with 110% capacity. There is no mention of quantity so that would imply that if you drained 8 quarts of oil from your engine whatever container it is in would need a secondary containment with at least 8.8 quart volume. Wonder how many racers have that setup? Florida can bust you for not having the secondary containment and hit you with a misdemeanor with a $1000 fine and/or 6 months in the local rectal stretching facility.

Finally, I was parked across the road from the HazMat contractor, and I didn't see much activity over there, although there was plenty of product for sale and/or lease.

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Ok that explains it all, Thanks Im off my soapbox now, BTW Thank you NHRA for giving me another reason to go Bracket Racing......what a joke

Re: Hazmat fines
 

Always happy to see another Pontiac racer move to brackets.

Another enhancement from NHRA.

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Just to show a real life situation, about 4 years ago the old Southland Dragway property was sold. The company that was doing the Phase 1 enviornmental is a company that I know and they asked that if I remembered if they had waste oil containers back in that day. I found some old photos, and in a couple, there are the containers. This was about 30 years after it sold. Did someone get fined at Gainesville?

Re: Hazmat fines
 

Bill Harris,
Thank-you for your great and informational report. By reading, we now have a better idea what where up aginst.

Sounds like some of us northern racers will have a little time to figure out the container deal, if it even applies to some of the states north of Fla.

Sounds like the safe thing to do is just do your maintaince @ home.

Rick

Re: Hazmat fines
 

The next issue is "cradle to grave"....under any hazardous waste rulings the people who collect the materials from the participants MUST have a record of when, from who, what the material was and the quantity deposited, so that when they are audited they have the proper paperwork to cover their own butt.....now, if these people (the waste collectors) for some reason do something other than proper recycling or disposal of the waste fluids the FEDS go to the records and takes the list of names and divides the cost of the evironmental disaster( the FEDS term) cleanup and sends a bill to everyone on that list of names....

Safety Kleen charges pretty large fees for disposal of wastes but the fees are cheaper than the fines and they are about the best for making sure your butt is covered....I had a company that would pay me by the gallon for my waste oil,but I had no guarantee what was happening with the waste oil and if it would ever come back to haunt me....

Cradle to Grave means if you generate the waste product you are responsible for it FOREVER no matter where it goes until it is properly disposed of or recycled......


D L Rambo....

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yep, and a lot of people do not know this! i hold a hazmat class a licence, wonder if it would keep me free of fines, lol..

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Think about this. Bring an extra 5 gal can, or one of those Wal Mart oil change plastic pans that you can seal up. If you need to change your oil, then keep the stuff and bring it to one of the places at your home town to get rid of it. The pro's are the ones with the trouble on this. Especially the fuel guys. What do you do with your oil when you change it at home? Do the same thing with the oil from the track.

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smells like nhra is making money off this somehow
just like throwing good parts out because of a date on a tag
PURE B.S.

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What makes you think local tracks won't eventually become a target for similar legislation...or worse?

Re: Hazmat fines
 

The way I read the explanation, it gives me the impression we are not supposed to take the oil off site and recycle it ourselves. Am I correct in this understanding?

My old man and I have always been good about this, we ALWAYS save out oil... at home and the track... and take it to a parts store to be recycled.

This is nuts.

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I do not think for one minute think that this is not a enhancement by NHRA to take more money out of our pockets, why? Because the EPA would be enforcing this not NHRA, Can you tell me that a fine paid by a racer is going straight to the EPA, I doubt it.
I will say that if you sign anything when you dispose of your oil to a SafetyClean type company, Do you realize you are responsible for the clean up and fines if something happens in the way of a spillage until it reaches the disposal site!! even if you pay a
removal fee. Besides were we not already paying a fee for disposal? I do remember a increase in track fee's to cover this at least in CA.

Re: Hazmat fines
 

Directly from the NHRA Environmental Management Plan.
Quote:
Removal of Waste From Site:
Each team will be required to make necessary provisions for removing any waste generated by it through a licensed vendor (Hazmat/Recycle hauler) designed by the track.
Any arrangements for and/or charges incurred for the removal of solid, recyclable or hazardous waste will be the responsibility of the race team generating the waste, and it will be the responsibility of the race team to contract with the on-site vendor for such disposal.
Unquote.

I ain't no englush majur, but that sez to me that if you generate waste on site, it must be disposed of through the on-site contracted vendor.

I ain't no lawyer neither, but it sure looked to me like all the hooks were in place to obligate the "participant" to dispose of waste oil on site with the contract vendor. You had to sign a document that said you agreed to the NHRA plan in order to complete your registration.

At Gainesville, the package handed out included a "Race Team Setup Form" for the purpose of establishing a contractual relationship with the vendor. The "Race Classifications" included "Street Racer", "Pro", and "Top Fuel". I guess we are street racers.

Being the devil's advocate and looking at the worst case scenario, what Jeff Teuton suggested is still a violation of the Florida statute. If you are transporting used motor oil in a container, it has to have a secondary containment that will accommodate the entire volume plus 10%. Will the Florida environmental cops bust you for a few quarts of dirty oil, probably not, but it is technically a violation anyway. If you had a wreck on the way home and dumped oil all over the place, that might be a different story.

For me, I think I will change my oil at home....

Re: Hazmat fines
 

So why can't you just put the oil bottles in a cooler?

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well they have no idea what goes on inside my trailer with the AC on and the doors closed. I've changed a transmission in the trailer, I can change the oil or trans fluid in there.

Re: Hazmat fines
 

Used Oil is NOT hazardous waste until it is tested and declared hazardous waste.
It is recyclable material until a test proves it to be hazardous waste no matter what state you are in. Each state is responsible for the rules in the state delegated to them by the US EPA.
The states use the US EPA rules as a minimum and can add additional rules as deemed to be necessary by the state legislature.
Each person in charge at the time in one of the agencies and on site will try to bully you sometimes but if you have knowledge of the laws you can make them back down when they figure out you really do know the law. A little power or authority in the hands of a bureaucrat is a dangerous thing.
The best thing to do is change the oil other than at the track to avoid issues.
If you have to put it back in the original bottles and put it back in the trailer. Putting it in a container of some type since the seals are broken on the bottles might be a good idea also just for safety and not have a spill which is a whole other discussion.
This could get to be a real messy situation depending on the state agency and how much they like or dislike racing.
Just My 2 Cents

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Next thing you know, "The Dirty Oil Police" will be knocking on your trailer door with a search warrant to find out where you've got it hidden, and you'll be led away in cuffs in front of your fellow racers....:o WJ

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There has to be a better hobby for what few years i have left to live!:rolleyes:

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I wonder what will happen to the racer that blows an engine at the finish line but continues to coast back to his pit??

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As with any waste, it is up to the generator (in this case, the racer) to determine whether the material is waste or not. As for me; after removing my expensive synthetic oil after 20 passes in my racecar, I simply transport it back home where it is perfectly acceptable for use in my lawnmower. I'm not transporting hazardous waste; I'm recycling. Al Gore would be proud!

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Kevin, you krack me up,,,lol

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Waste oil? Keeps me warm all winter. 320,000 BTU's running 24/7 mostly from Nov to March



http://www.lanair.com/Lanair2.0/

Re: Hazmat fines
 

In Florida, where I live, almost every auto parts store has a "waste oil" (not hazardous waste) recovery program. The county I live in (county next to the county for Gainesville) has solid waste disposal sites. The state/county encourges drop off of used motor oil. I don't know the law, for certain, but I think as long as the used oil is less then a certain amount, it is perfectly legal to transport it in the original containers (or even milk jugs), in your personal vehicle.
If NHRA/Gainesville raceway will not allow you to retain custody of your used oil, is that not a violation of the law? It is your property, is it not?

PS: Hi Rich, haven't seen you since the old days at the cabbage patch.

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What happens when you get chosen for teardown and a piston gets pulled? Do you get to take your oil with you or are you required to go through this mess?

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How about the s-s/s guy the "switches" oil for qualifing.........and then changes back. two times the disposal fee?

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I try to use the oil to kill the weeds where I usually have to park, and to keep the mosquitos down.....and at night, the smoke from the grill usually can not be seen. (just kidding/disclaimer). I have always carried containers to return with oil, for re-use in ag equip. I try to leave the track with my pit area cleaner than it was when I got there, which usually isn't to difficult. If you arrive with 3 cases of oil and leave with 3 cases of oil, in a container....I see no reason for a problem.