Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Ok, after tipping the scales at 255 this morning, and all the holiday food being brought by family to the shop to make sure Im eating.....Ive put on about 10 lbs.....at 210 I look like a skeleton, at 230 I look and feel "right" so I can loose a few it only takes about a week for me to loose, but I can never get under 210 at 6'1" and my frame, its just not healthy.

What was the reasoning, and Im sure there was someone on the 170 driver weight ? I know 2 people that weigh that 2 that arent women. My uncle and hes about 150 and like 5'2 and another uncle whos "short" (in MY family) at about 5'8 hes probably 170ish.

Right now the average weight of a male in the U.S. is 191 lbs......ok....why isnt it set somewhere closer to the average ? Does anyone know when the 170lb weight was enacted ? The average height has also soared in the last 15 years as well. and with height comes weight....then again there are people like me who are a)a bit overweight hence the fat arse , me.....and the fact Ive got a big frame. (and yes mouth)

So what are the options, most times its a non-issue as well have a driver for Nats and most regionals, but I would like to run regionals as well and "grade up" and maybe, just maybe run a national later in the year after we have a)won or b)decided its hopeless and go back to just screwing around.

Soooooo other than disguising a lead brick as an economy sized box of tampax or childrens diapers and hooked to a cable release so I can drop it on the way to the water box......(ne self respecting man would run out to grab either one of those) Well......a little curious...

Whats the petition process like in terms of being painful to just submit something I see as reasonable....its a CAR not a horse I shouldnt have to hire a "Jockey" sized person to drive it.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Interesting topic of discussion that wasn't really an issue until the rule was changed that allowed you to run your natural class,or move down AND up.

There is no question that being a "lightweight" driver is definately an advantage when moving UP in class.

But like you said,we are racing cars,not horses.

And by the way,I am a fatter arse than you.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

i as well have a size issue i am 6'6" 224lbs and was close to the 270 range at on time the one advantage of being tall is locating the seat as far back as far my feet will reach,the weght transfer has an advantage,plus the car is a heavy unit to boot and plus the index change will make things interesting for next year gmonde

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Drooze, 170 pounds driver weight is better than it was in 70`s, they didn't weight the driver in the car and when you weight over 300 pounds, I raced a 66 Nova 220 hp.and It was a big disadvantage to race a car with a150 pound driver. Tom

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

....never thought of ME as ballast but youre right, ive got loong legs and arms.

6'6 224 lbs ?!?!

Youve also got the advantage of being invisible when you turn sideways :)

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Agreed. so you went from 300 heavier, to 130 heavier....even if they bump the weight to say 190 youre in 20 better at 110...

Ding Ding Ding....in this lane weighing......lol I can just see that well get the Boxing "Lets Get Ready to Rumble guy" to announce drivers...

The weight of the driver in Drag Racing should have NO bearing , absolutley 0 on the performance of the package.

Then again at 6'1 220 (when I was riding) and those were GP125 and Formula 250 bikes....the old man said I looked "Like a monkey f***ing a football" but I really like the smaller bikes....lol..cant tell you how many races I slipped place because of weight next to the small guys, they would take my bike, and can run seconds faster.....same setup all weight.

But , I dont have a magic answer....the only thing I could see is "upping" it to the Average, average is fair right ?

Guess the Maxipad box it is......

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

I weighed 170 lbs when I was a senior in high school and I'm probably 5 lbs more than that now almost 40 years later (although not proportioned quite the same). I've got no problem with the 170 lb deal.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

i say move the weight up ot 200, the fat guys will have to lose weight (i'm in that catagory) and the skinny guys have to eat something....
or run a 50lb license plate up front...

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

not after chuming 8 budwiesers and 2 or 3 cheese burgers you can see me from a mile away gmonde

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

LEAVE IT ALONE !!! I've drank CoorsLight all these years to keep my weight under the rule book advise/standard....don't reward all of the Bud guys that didn't suffer !!

Merry Christmas ya'll ......and go easy on the ham !

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

If you're 6'1 and look like a skelton at 210, it's because you have no muscle. You could easily drop down to 180 without issue and look "normal". Would it take work, of course.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Lol....I think you have it backwards....but ok......

No its not my body....its my face....it looks hollow and gaunt....and with as much as I talk Ive got no idea how to make "face muscle" maybe my face is just ripped....yeah thats it....

(From March to late July I ran 5 miles a day till I twisted my knee screwing around...work isnt a problem)

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Hahaha you guys are funny. I weight a measly 135lbs and have to keep putting weight in the car!

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Wow I think my Christmas Tree weighs more :D

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/...f1dffd191a.jpg

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

I'm 6' and weigh 145-150 anyone need a driver :)

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Running 5 miles a day doesn't build muscle. Great for your heart, but a great way to stay what we call, skinny/fat. Quit worrying what your face looks like, get yourself in better shape and then you won't have to worry about the weight issue.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Does anyone know how long the 170 pound figure has been used for a driver?
Did they account for the fact that you have to wear a helmet,harness,fire jacket,and now fire PANTS too?

What is the history of adding weight for the driver?

If your weight break is 10.5 for the F/SA class,why can't you take your horsepower rating and simply multiply it by the class weight break?

Example:

Engine is rated at 360 horsepower.
360 X 10.5 (F/SA Weight Break) = 3780.
PLUS 170 pounds for driver = 3950 total weight.

Why is 170 pounds added?

This might be a way to help everyone get some of their 3 tenths back on the indexes.Everyone could run 170 pounds lighter.

I think Bill Dedman has a story about the history of driver weight that he could explain here.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

I would love to hear it (the story).......and your right...

FAR Part 103......I dont have to worry about the weight of my saftey gear in an ultralight......keeps people from flying naked ? No but I dont have to worry about a ballistic chute, or other items.....

They arent allowing driver changes now correct ? why not weigh driver in with safety gear ? (and a quick check on a personal scale to make sure the driver isnt packing lead plates in his shoes)

I wont say there HAS to be a reason, Im thinking there is and Im not seeing it........maybe....and maybe that needs adjusted closer to the national average.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

The last time I weighed 180lbs I was 15.....I attached a pic....I look like a skeleton.....I wrested 175, and in the summers was good for another 5 that was the first summer after and I made SURE not to go over 180.

Youre right about running, but it does for leg muscle and tones it, and when you ride like i do thats important, but it gets your metabolism up, and when I can its good for my legs/knees, as long as I then dont tear em back up doing something.....ehhhmmmmm "stupid" ..... and when you drink as much soda as I do....My Drs told me when I got down to 210 I needed to gain weight, I said its a bit hard with a broken jaw but Ill try , so I drank soda :)

Here is what I looked like at an inch shorter at 180 on the button, and inch taller........ and at 15 there was no "skinny fat" it was wrestling swimming scuba diving and rowing. So.....

Tell me thats healty/normal for an adult of my frame now with muscle and physically taller ? Maybe it is....but its not practical, I have a crazy metabolism as it is and can gain or drop 30 lbs in a month, just by adjusting my diet, The gaining is slower, but it comes off quick even then im still 220

Im still a size 32 (Ok....34 now) waist, when I gain it all goes right above my beltline....

Even at 200 , thats only 9 lbs above the national average but a 30lb advantage for other "smaller framed" drivers.....seem odd to me.....

Like I said, its a CAR, why does driver weight, especially with saftey equiptment have a bearing ? Maybe theres a reason....

Im on the left....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2563/...f37da31ef8.jpg

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

I'm with Fazio. I'm 140 lbs soaking wet and have been for 30+ years.

It might be ideal if the driver weight had "0" bearing in dragracing, but it's gonna affect the weight balance of a car no matter what. The 115 lb difference between me and Drooze in the same car would fit nicely over the rear axle!!

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

HAHAHHAA thanks..

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Nothing personal I felt bad after I said that, I thought, maybe he takes his weight and being in appropriate shape ....well....It was meant in fun....but not to make fun. I just couldnt resist :)

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

I thought it was hysterical. I'm probably the smallest driver in SS. Definitely the most handsome though.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Im a 6'7 big foot..during this last season i tipped the scales at a hoss 337 now im down to 293.....i will have to add about 25 IBS to the stocker next year if i stay where im at, but the super stocker i would have to lose 300 IBS to add weight to it lol......i need to get with mike so ican get my muscle back i had in high school when i played football.;)

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

you big guys may start to give us small guys a complex LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Well, here's the anecdote 4-4-2Olds referred to, earlier.

In the '60s, the cars were weighed to ensure that the required weight was adhered to.
My car had a required weight weight of 3,105, (B/G coupe; 9 pounds per cubic inch/345-inch Olds) and brother, it didn't race that class, if it weighed 3,104.

I weighed 220... our "go-fer" wanted to drive it (he was 98 pounds, and was 16) so we all laughed and let him. He ran a tenth quicker than I had ever run, on his first pass.... We had a new driver!

This was back in the dark ages, so don't laugh too loud.

I had a good friend who had a KILLER "A Street Roadster." This was about the time that Judy Lilly was becoming well-known (about a hundred pounds.)

Unfortunately, the guy who built and drove the Street Roadster weighed about 350...

As it has been stated, the car was weighed, and if it was the correct weight, that was it; you could put a 400 pound driver in there (costing yourself about .4-sec) or, a 9-pound trained mongoose... your choice.

I did some rudimentary math, and put it in a letter to National Dragster regarding how much performance BIG people were losing on this deal by NHRA not weighing the driver and the car, together. I pointed out how much quicker my friend's roadster would be with Judy Lilly driving it, compared with him. It was something like 3+ car-lengths.

Bill Holland (I think he runs a company called "Holland Comunications," now) was the editor of National Dragster at the time (probably around 1973, or so???) and he printed my letter. His "editorial response" was one of comic-outrage, and feigned disbelief; he wanted to know how it would be possible to police weighing the drivers with the car, and asked in mock-sincerity, "Should we weigh these drivers in their Jockey shorts, or fully-clothed?"

In short he ridiculed the idea within an inch of its life, (probably at he behest of some NHRA Druid,).in an attempt to make it look like it had come from an inmate at Bellevue, in the last stages of dimentia... It was very clear that NHRA did NOT want to deal with this issue.

But, I wasn't laughing...

I don't remember the time that elapsed, but it wasn't long after that that a bunch of "big-guy" NHRA Pro Stock drivers demanded that NHRA start including driver weights with the cars.
I don't know how they got it done, but, they did. I have heard that "Dyno" Don Nicholson was one of the motivating forces behind that action.

Not long after that, NHRA started weighing everybody with the cars, and came up with the "shipping weight + 170 pounds" for cars classsified by advertised (or, factored) horsepower and shipping weights.

That was a long time ago; maybe 1974-'75.

Never have heard a word from Mr. Holland, to this day... lol!
To be fair, he was, like Adolf Eichmann, probably just following orders... LOL!!!

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Awesome, and excellent as I was wondering what the history on this was.

Thanks

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Well, the bottom line was (for the cars that were pounds-per-cu.-in.), the fat guys (like me) finally got a fair shake.... It helped the guys with Stockrs and S/S cars, too....

SOME changes are good.... :)

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

So if a car has to weigh 3200 + 170 for a driver then the race weight is 3370 right? So if a driver weighs 300 the race weight is still 3370?

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

The ACTUAL weight would be 3500...... against a 170lb driver in same combo, he would be 3370

Thats what Im saying, it dosent seem right , and especially when its not even the US national average, in 1974 , it probably was that was 35 YEARS Ago ...... average height was lower too.

At least adjust it, I would think after 30+ years of adaptive growth that would be reasonable.

So the next question is what is the approptiate (or most effective) petition method to see it put before the rules comitte ? Gotta be one....

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Why would it not be car+170 = race weight no matter what?

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

It is the 300 pound guy just needs to find a place to get the weight out of the car. The weight of the car at the scale would be the same 3370 no matter what.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Uhhhhhhh, but the weight of the car with the 300lb driver in it going down the track is still 3500, while the car with the 170lb driver is still at 3370.

Correct ? How is getting weight out of the car (other than himself) going to do it ? If the combo has to weigh 3370 with the 170 driver weight included....it has to weigh 3370 with the 170 added for the driver, if I pull 130 out I dont make minimum weight.

Is this correct or is my understanding lacking and hence this whole thread a waste of bytes ?

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Drooze, using this example, if you and I both have an '09 Drag Pack Challenger. Miniumum weight for A/SA is 3,290, with driver (8 x 390 + 170). I weight approximately 260. So, my car, without me, would weigh 3,030. Lets say you weigh 160. Your car, without driver, can weigh 3,130. We still both meet the minumum A/SA weight for a DP of 3,290 pounds. Your car, by itself, would be lighter than mine, by itself, by a hundred pounds.

That's why George Bryce and Angelle whatever-her-last-name-was-at-the-time were so successful in Pro Stock Bike. Minimum weight, with rider, was 600 pounds. Since she was so light, they had to add ballast to meet the 600, and could add the ballast where and how they wanted, to make the bike work the best.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

That explains it then......

I have been confused about the driver weight.

The rule reads "

Class
and classification weight are determined without driver weight.
Once classification weight is calculated, 170 pounds is added for

driver to arrive at total weight. All cars are weighed with driver.
"
Classification weight and total weight seems to be my brain fart.

No wonder I thought it was so slanted....I was wrong.....I just didnt see how it was possible to slope it in such a manner.

I read it as , then 170 is added for driver weight....and that was the hiccup, my understanding and apparently incorrect was that that was an average weight added for the driver, and that number to me seemed off.

But its not that, its used as an addition to the classification weight for a "total weight" ..... I got it...

Thanks a ton, this whole thread was a waste of bytes for everyone but me :)

Feel free to smack in the head at will....

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

I am guessing when the rule was changed away from shipping weight to being allowed to the add the 170, that 170 was an average drivers weight. This system is much more favorable to, let's say, oversized or overweight drivers. Back when the shipping weight was the minimum weight, a heavy driver competed at a disadvantage to a lighter driver.

The weight break determining a cars natural class is shipping weight divided by either NHRA or factory HP, whichever is used. In the DP case, it's now 390 NHRA rated. 3,100 is the shipping weight. 3,100/390 = 7.95. Meaning the car naturally falls into AA/SA, and can also run A. You can take the bottom weight break to figure the minimum weight, with driver, across the scales (7.5 for AA, 8 for A). So 8 x 390 + 170 = 3,290. AA weight is 7.5 x 390 + 170 = 3,095.

Never feel embarrased or apologize for asking questions. We all have stuff to learn, and much better to have an issue cleared up now, then before going to a race and making a mistake that could get you DQ'd or cause you to make a mistake and cost the car some performance and lose a race.

On the PA/OH line here, weather is getting bad...I imagine it's the same in Barberton?

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

Yep, I just bailed from the shop , it was getting nasty.....about 2+ inches , wet and slick stuff.....

Now that being said, I think I know the answer, but thinking I know and knowing are 2 different things, I was going to clarify all this later....what about running overweight intentionally so as not to screw up factoring , is it just the simple division ?

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

No, there is no maximum weight, just a minimum weight. As long as you're 3,290 pounds or more in A/SA, you're good. Many racers will run heavy for their class to avoid running too fast and getting HP. Heck, you can run AA/SA at A/SA weight. Just as long as you're at, or over, the Class minimum, it's all good.

The maximum weight issue was debated a few months ago, and is a topic all to itself.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

What happens when the DP gets enough horsepower to be in AA only?

Normally,when you are substantially over the minimun weight for your class,you drop down.If you can't drop down from AA,you would be at a disadvantage racing another AA if you weren't at the minimum weight.

Re: Fat arse stock car drivers
 

And that is/will be a problem for DP cars, hence were scabbing every bit of weight we can, noone I know of has made minimum weight with one yet.....its getting NOTHING thats not rule required. Were going to be as light as any but realisticly I have no idea where that will be, I scraped 20+lbs of urethane body sealer and sound deadening out, we are one of the few that did this, and on and on, everything gets weighed, and removed that isnt neccesary or required.

Its a tight squeeze, and I still dont see us hitting min weight without cutting on the car, and well thats something that isnt going to happen.

Im dying to get it on a scale. When its all together, I figure were 100 fat. But thats just a guess from other DP owner observations of what they weight vs what we are not running they are, 3lbs visors and brackets, 20 lb sound deadning, 1.2 lbs rad fan. 1.5 lb unused gauge electronics, 6.8 ounces front wheel center caps(pair) and on and on....The its time to swiss cheese added brackets, Ive got the lightest wheels on the market, we went 8 3/4 for the weight, and a 904 vs protrans for same reason.....itll be interesting, Id like to have a few to spare....well see