Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

I have a suggestion, and it will take a moment or two of time, but I think it will end up being time very well spent.

I think we deserve an explanation of the insurance we are paying for at National events, what it does and does not cover for us, and proof it is not a money-grab/profit center for our sanctioning bodies.

When we book an expensive trip and buy trip insurance, I get a binder with what is and isn't covered, how to file a claim, limits, etc. I do not think it is out of line to ask NHRA and IHRA to give us a copy of this binder that we are paying for and what it covers for us. If this is a legitimate expense, they should have no trouble offering these items. If it's BS which I believe most of us think it is, then lets call them on it!

I ask that every racer that has two envelopes and two stamps and five minutes, please type out a quick letter asking for this information to be mailed to them. If enough of us do this, we might draw attention to the fact that 1) we aren't sheep 2) we aren't idiots and 3) the game is up.

Addresses:

IHRA
9 1/2 E. Main Street
Norwalk, OH 44857

NATIONAL HOT ROD ASSOCIATION
2035 Financial Way
Glendora, CA 91741

Good chance if our writing campaign is effective, they will remove the "insurance" fee and just up the entry, but so call a spade a spade - I am not going to pay for an "insurance" policy that does nothing if I am hurt. If it does, I want to know that too. We deserve at least that much, right?

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Beth--not sure about IHRA but I believe NHRA does tout insurance as one of the benefits of being a "member of NHRA" in some of their membership promotion literature--Comp 387

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

I agree 1000% never had an issue at the track that required medical help but I'm quite sure my insurance would cover most anything that came up. You are correct I've never seen any thing in print pertaining to this. As I posted in another thread the insurance used to be paid some other way, we were not Directly charged for it , it may have been figured into the entry fee. This sure seems like a "cash cow" for N&I do they own an insurance underwriter?Joe Does anyone have any idea what the cost is for a policy for say a 3 day race?

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

You know the more I think about all this the more I start thinking of going local bracket racing.Have to slow the turd down to 10 flat( that shouldn't be hard) so no more chassis cert. no more physical or lic. fees. And certainly no insurance fees, which begs the question if the local tracks don't charge it for weekly bracket racing are they uninsured? Shoot I can buy alot of beer with those savings. Joe

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Unless the ---HRA's start requiring chassis certs, liscense, physicals, Lic. fees, etc. for cars 11.49 (roll bar & 5 pt. harness required) and quicker......LOL. I wouldnt put it past them to start requiring such things in the future.

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Here's some of it, although it's a general piece, not talking about the insurance surcharge at nationals. http://www.ihra.com/competition/insurance.php

The insurance surcharge stuff was included in the Rulebook. Found it available online, toward the bottom of this page: http://www.bluetoad.com/article/Pit_...0/article.html

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

I have no firsthand information (don't run NHRA), but a couple of friends who do, have told me that a few years back, they started having to pay an insurance premium along with their entry fee, that provided insurance for the Pros.... but, not the Sportsman racers.

Is this a fact, or is it just hearsay?

And, if so, where is the justification for it?

Any information will be appreciated.

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Wow just quickly scanning those 2 articles that Michael posted made my grey matter hurt. It reminds me of an old Hillbilly proverb " If you can't dazzle them with brilliance....Baffle them with bull****"Joe

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Insurance info on page 131 in the 2009 IHRA rule book . I guess you would have to contact IHRA as you suggested for more details.Looks to me if you go by guidlines you should be covered .Keep in mind that was in 2009 rule book. Hope this helps .

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

The only two people I know both had issues with getting the isurance to pay all involved. Both kept getting past due bills from doctors while having to prove/justify doctor bills. One of these guys paid off the bills just to stop the past due statements to save his credit ratings. Then fight for reimbursement on his own which he said he finally got in a year long process. The other was put in Careflight from the track even though he felt it wasn't needed. Later the insurance tried to deny the Careflight cost (about $3500) due to the fact his injury wasn't life treatening, even though that was in hindsight. Anyone that saw this crash were surprised either driver survived. I've always wondered how the insurance did with John Force's injuries, rehab and Careflight?

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Thank you, Danny - it does help. It is not listed in the index, and since I haven't read it page by page, I didn't know it was in there. :o

But the waiver that we sign - doesn't that waiver mean we are signing away our coverage and all track responsibility? I guess I need to read that again.

For those without their rule books handy here it is from the IHRA rule book:

Both on track incidents and pit vehicle related accidents/fatalities have driven the cost of national event insurance up over 50% in the last three years and 80% over the last 6 years. Several years ago an insurance surcharge became the industry standard at NHRA national events, while IHRA events remained unchanged during that same time period. IHRA has invested in an on site motorsports trauma doctor, additional track rescue, personnel, as well as additional firefighting equipment in an effort to help reduce the risk associated with competing at a national event and enhance the ability to respond to major incidents.

IHRA continues with the insurance surcharge practice in an effort to keep the coverage and associated staff in place at the current levels. A $40 insurance surcharge paid in addition to the national event entry fee for any person, competing in any class, at an IHRA national event. This will not apply to Pro-Am or Team Finals events, as IHRA member tracks have new requirement mandating enhanced fire/rescue equipment and SFI certified personnel to cover weekly events for 2009.

This national event insurance surcharge will also enable IHRA to cover the gap that exists in most primary competitor's primary health care coverage and the existing excess medical coverage where it relates to paying the cost of air transportation. The cost of air transportation is not covered on most primary insurance policies and is not covered in the excess policy. This charge has been $6,000 to $7,000 when IHRA racers have had to have this method of transportation used. Continuing in 2009, should a competitor be involved in an "on track" incident that requires they be air lifted to the hospital, the basic air transportation expense will be covered by the event where the incident occurs if this fee is not covered by a competitor's primary insurance. This will only apply to competitors (not crew) when the incident happens as the result of qualifying/competition on the track.

So, this is a helicopter ride charge. Ok. To cover the gap - but what if you don't have any healthcare coverage? What then?

And NHRA has nothing in their rulebook that I could find.

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

NHRA insurance:

http://www.nhra.com/insuranceinfo.aspx

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Thanks Julie - I found this too, specific to National events. Note the bolded part . . . can you say LOOPHOLE?

link: http://www.nhra.com/nateventinsurance.aspx

National Event Liability Insurance Information
The following is a brief summary of the National Event Commercial General Liability insurance coverage provided by NHRA to racers and their crews and racing vehicle owners and sponsors, as additional insureds on NHRA's policy:

$30,000,000 per occurrence for Bodily Injury claims.
$30,000,000 per occurrence for Property Damage claims, except for Property Damage to racing vehicles located in a restricted area.
$50,000 per occurrence for Property Damage Liability claims to racing vehicles of others located in a restricted area, subject to a $5,000 deductible.
Because all insurance policies contain limitations and exclusions that may eliminate or reduce coverage, you should note that, among other exclusions, no coverage is provided for:
Claims made against racers, their crew or racing vehicle owners arising out of a racing vehicle owner's, racer's or crew member's ownership, maintenance, use or entrustment to others of any ATV, golf cart or motorized two wheel vehicle.
Certain pollution claims.
Intentionally caused injuries or damages.
Any claims unrelated to NHRA's operations, premises or locations owned or rented by NHRA.
Also, in the event of a serious claim, the limit of insurance on the policy may be shared by many other people, such as other racers, crewmembers, NHRA, sponsors, landowners and others. This could cause your coverage to be significantly reduced or even eliminated.

This Commercial General Liability insurance coverage is afforded to you in the event a liability claim is made against you. It does not cover you for your own bodily injuries or property damage. Because of the exclusions and limitations, and depending on your particular circumstances, you may want to consider purchasing your own Commercial General Liability policy, as some racers and sponsors already have.

If you have any questions about coverage or would like to purchase your own policy, please, contact Cheryn Schreiber at Wells Fargo Motorsports, (713) 507-4738, or e-mail her at cheryn_schreiber@wellsfargois.com . You may also contact Wells Fargo Motorsports online at http://motorsports.wellsfargo.com.

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

The way I always understood it was that waiver might as well be printed on CHARMIN. Thats all its worth.
Chip

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

I have to sign it as well as all IHRA employees and CEO'S/ Owners.

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

I can tell you from a bad experience the insurance coverage you pay for each time is like trying to get blood out of a turnip.
They won't pay and want more documentation each time a claim/bill is submitted. Just a stall.
It is a nightmare which lasted almost 2 years for me.
Oh by the way those bills can only be submitted after your personal insurance has paid all they will. And you must file documentation that your insurance has paid all they will. Every tried to get something like that from an insurance company?
A check with some of NHRA's employees and I found the extra insurance fees on each entry for the national event is for coverage for the entire event for everyone attending spectators included. In other words the sportsman racers who pay the insurance fees for the pro's and spectators and anyone who attends the event.
Seems fair right.
Just pray you never need to use it.
My 2 Cents from having been there in that nightmare.

Re: Insurance fees: _HRA, please explain!
 

Beth,

In planning an event, I was told of a non profit group that touted they had $5 million in liability coverage to the members, who think it is a lot. The problem is that amount includes a museum open to the public, along with about 20 events per month with many of them open to the public. It was explained to me that if there is an event in CA at 3PM but someone fell in NJ at 11AM and later files a claim, there is/was no coverage for your event.

I do understand from reading the Dragster that the NHRA member coverage is after your policy pays. So this racer "event" insurance policy is the same then?