Originally Posted by SS 230 (Post 150260)

Let me clarify, I'm talking on the tree its self. If you are chasing, watching the last bulb on your side then the green bulb on the other side comes on inches away from the bulb you are watching, it can be distracting. Just extend the blinder down on the tree to cover the bottom two bulbs.

Originally Posted by Longbob (Post 150279)

How is that reinventing? Blinders are in the rule book and it is my understanding that the original poster was asking about how to design them. Except for the backdrop part. I guess that would be a change that I don't see as needed.

Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 150437)

Alan; I thought you were smarter than that... I have read your many posts, and you always, before, seemed to make a lot of sense... but I am thinking now, that your logic has been short-circuited by the possibility that you run a higher-classed car that would never benefit from the level playing field that a worse red light rule will provide.

You said, "It hasn't worked? Well, I'll be damned. We haven't been racing for decades, because of the red light rule? Boy, I sure am glad all you guys came along to tell us all drag racing hasn't worked for 40 years, the rest of us would never have figured that one out."

Did I say it prevented us from racing at all???

No.

I said it didn't "work," and, it didn't... and it doesn't.

Would you like to return to "The first car to break out loses"??? That makes just as much sense...

Think about it.

What doesn't "work" about the current system is that it prevents equal red light jeopardy. The second car to leave is no longer in jeopardy of a red light, if the first car bulbs. Where is the other side of that coin???

There is none with the present system. But, this lopsided situation doesn't have to continue.

What we now have, is a system, born of necessity (in 1963) when there was no electronic capability to provide a dual reaction-timing system. That time has come and gone, and now it can be fixed by utilizing software that compares the lights (reaction times) of BOTH cars, before a red light is displayed.

People complain that it's "Just another change, and we've already had ENOUGH changes," but it's not a change that will affect anyone's driving program; nobody will be aware that it's even in place, until after both cars have left the line.

There's simply no legitimate reason NOT to change this.

But, since NHRA is what it is, and it won't make them one red cent, it will likely never happen there. I'd expect to see it in IHRA protocol before NHRA ever gets around to fixing it, so relax; your advantage is secure, for the moment.

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich (Post 150463)

Bill, do you own a car?

Why would you ask?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++

Do you drive one?

Again, why would you ask?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

Do you even work on one?

For the third time, why do you want to know this.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++

This sounds like "KILL THE MESSENGER!!!"

It looks like you can't effectively deal with the issues of the subject at hand, so you try to deflect attention away from these issues by attacking the "Messenger," which is, in this case, ME.

Exactly what does my personal "car" status have to do with an antiquated system of racing that victimizes the first-to-leave by exposing them to red-light jeopardy 100-percent of the time, while removing, COMPLETELY, any red light jeopardy from the second car to leave, IF the first car redlights?

I don't know what earthly connection my cars, and what I do with them, could have to do with this software problem..

Maybe you could explain that to me; why you would rather use bandwidth here, to discredit me, than to discuss the issues involved in the worse red light problem.

You want to do anything BUT talk about the fact that 50-percent of the handicapped races run, give the advantage (the possibility of not having the potential to red light) to the second car to leave, whether it's an AA/SA car, or a V/SA car... it can and does happen to both, depending on whom they're racing against.

Your litany of advantages/disadvantages of slower/faster cars is not pertinent to this discussion. You can't try to "equalize" things between classes by "awarding" certain perks to this class or that; it would never end!!!

This worse red light system gives an advantage to NOBODY. NOBODY!!!

What could be fairer than that?

To be fair to you, though, I should give you a little personal background, because I haven't had a "class" car for a long time.

My drag racing started in 1955 (I was 17) at the Carlisle, Arkansas Drag Strip, where, 3 years later, I started working the Stocker tech line, and eventually was made an NHRA "Area Tech Advisor" by the Div. IV Division Director of the time, Dale Ham. It was an unpaid position, but I was given the responsibilty for keeping the Stock Car Classiication Guide keeping it updated, keeping all the tech sheets, and keeping them updated, and ruilng on protest decisions. I worked the Stocker Tech line there from 1958 'til I moved to Des Moines, IA in 1964. I worked the Stocker Tech line at that strip (Des Moines Dragway) until it closed in 1968. My race car at that time was a '57 Chevy sedan delivery Stocker, one of the never-never Hydramatic cars. Previously, I had run several Gas Coupes, (one a blown SBC/Hydro), and, sometimes in partnership with others.

My current ride is a '72 Valiant with a 360 Magnum/904 combination, a street/strip car with a Vortech centrifugal blower. It turns 106mph at our local 1,000-foot strip, (we don't have any quarter-mile strips in Arkansas, unfortunately). I keep the boost at a maximum of 10 pounds to preserve the head gaskets...

It makes me smile... :)

I have a couple of close friends who run Stockers; one in A/SA and one in H/SA... I keep current by hanging around them as much as I can, subscribing to Nitro Joe's Stats, and reading the results on Summit's FAST NEWS every time there's a race.

Is that addicted enough??? I'd race a class-legal Stocker if I could afford it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

Hell, there's a possibility that I might drive a Top Fuel car. That doesn't change the way I think, either.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++

I don't know "the way you think." I present you with what ~I~ think are good, legitimate reasons that this flawed system needs to be changed, and you respond by asking questions that makes it sound like I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about, and then, bring up 101 reasons why this or that is an advantage, and so what???

The things you mentioned are things we cannot change.

This is something we CAN change..

Look, Alan, this is in no way MY IDEA. In fact, I raced and watched racing religiously, for many, many, years before somebody clued me in as to the skewed way things are run, with regard to red lights, in handicapped races.

It took this guy about four or five tries, explaining it to me, for me to finally "get it." I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer...

Once I thought about it for a month or so, it finally sunk in, and I could not BE:LIEVE that I hadn't realized it, before! I believe in tradition... and have always thought that way... but, tradition, in this case, needs some shaking up.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't HAVE an advantage. I raced a SLOW G/S car last year. If I drive next year, I might race something else slow.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++

With the current system, you have an advantage every time you race a G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, and so on, car... That car might red light, giving you a free ride!!!

Overall, there may be a 50/50 split between your chasing and being chased, but you are still at a disadvantage any time you're the first to leave. Why should ANYBODY be at a disadvantage, regardless of when they leave (relative to the other car)???

This is something that can be fixed, but like I said, NHRA isn't going to bust their collective *** to do the right thing, because it will cost them a few bucks thay don't have, right now, and won't make them a plugged nickel.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++

Of all the things that can be done to improve the condition of sportsman racing, if that improves it at all, that would have to be all the way at the bottom of the list. Of all the things that are wrong, the same people keep bringing up the red light thing. That's like treating a hang nail on a guy with a sucking chest wound. People need to stop growing pearls.

Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 150513)

Ed, I have a race car. I told you all about it in a post about a month ago.

Do you remember?

I do...

I know you're not as old as I am; you should remember...

But, this issue doesn't require the owning of a car to understand it.

What aspects of this worse red light question do you think requires the ownership of a car to understand?

Enlighten me... please.

P. S. What kind of grief would it cause you to finally get a fair shake when racing a quicker car? You never have, you know...

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez (Post 150534)

>>>You own it,but do you race it in S/SS?

I believe I told you that I can't afford a class car. Do you even read my posts, or do you just scatter-shot them, hoping to find a loophole? Do you think that when I race, because I'm not running an NHRA Stock Eliminator car, I am somehow, magically immune to the universally-accepted FIRST RED LIGHT rule?

Let me clue you in; I'm not. If I race against a quicker (bracket) car, and I red light, he never gets his chance to.

I asked Alan, where is the other side of THAT coin; he never answered me (couldn't, because there IS none...) Maybe YOU can tell me... How about it???

>>>I don't believe you have any grade points for 2008-2009.So you are basically an ex racer who is now a key board racer.

What am I doing in the picture I posted; eating Wheaties? I beat that Mustang, BTW....

Just because someone is not running an NHRA class car, doesn't mean he's not racing...

>>>Your constant blathering about every aspect of our racing can in fact be picked up by the wrong yahoos in Glendora and have changes that affect us.Key board racers will not feel the effects of these changes.

I would surely hope that they pick up on THIS one, so that guys like you. who are the first to leave the majority of the time, will start getting a fair shake. You may not want to admit it (for reasons beyond my understanding),but you've NEVER gotten a fair deal, unless you ran against a slower car, and that doesn't happen too often, in your class.


>>>>So reminiscing about the old days is fine but you don't have a dog in the fight anymore.

You're mistaken; every time I pull up to the line to run a quicker car, I get screwed by the same system that's screwing you.... but, you don't know it.

There's just no reason to let it continue. I can't get anyone to tell me one, anyway.

Originally Posted by 442olds (Post 150567)

i have given this issue a lot of thought,and i have come to the conclusion that unless the race is a double redlight situation,it really makes no difference. .

Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 150559)

Alan,

All the complaining in the world about the problems you mentioned has nothing to do with this issue.

If you think it's not important, then, ignore it. It's not worth your time.

I think it's a mole hill, but one that people have been tripping over for 36 years, and it's time to level it out, and level the playing field, in the process.

Doing so, won't affect any of the many other problems you mentioned in the slightest... one way, or another.

In all your verbiage, you still have not come up with one single reason NOT to fix it... none. Even YOU can't logically defend keeping this lopsided rule in effect.

That is very telling.

Glendora couldn't care less, I am sure; if they cared, it would have been fixed long ago.

I'm not holding my breath...

Thanks for your comments.

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez (Post 150736)

Quack,quack,quack,quack,quack,etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 150755)

John,

NOBODY's red light comes on until BOTH cars have left the line. Once they've both launched, the computer decides who had the worst red light and turns it on.

It can't do that before both cars have left, so nobody will see any red lights until after they've launched.

Hope this helps...