New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Everyone KNOWS, its too expensive to get started today. It is almost too much to continue as there are new rules to ALLOW this or ALLOW that and sophistication of parts is Wonderful but massively expensive.
Question is what rules could be pieced together to create REAL basic class car that ANYONE could use other than ET class or Bracket.
Spec Motor, Spec Chassis, Sealed motor, No slicks, No scoops, No NOS , ?All one motor? all one chassis? (I know someone would cry foul as their favorite ARDVARK COUPE wouldnt fit BUT>>> Any serious thoughts of a starting point. Knowing the skills at hiding work and "stretching current rules" it would be serious challenge. Any ideas? Construtive Discussion?
Thanks

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

As far as NHRA, I would say no chance. NHRA is looking to reduce operating costs.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

I recognize NHRA is unlikely to think of it on their own. They cant recognize the issues present today but as racers with thought processes and experience could there be a "NEW BASIC" car , inexpensive but fun other than continuing the madness of todays high cost "entry level" Stockers ? Look at how Round track progressed with many variations of a cheaper local car to race. No major discussion of cheating or that point just thoughts.?

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Dick - Every local track has the program you are talking about -- Bracket 2 ......... or Heavy if you so choose .Its a little late to re-invent the wheel at this point.....Pure Stock was great in the Seventies but today we all know how to play in 'Grey Areas' .................and is much harder to police .

If you remember when we were youngsters the thought of owning a JR. Stocker was out of the question but yet we came up with the money .The next generation will do the same I'm sure...............

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Jack & Dick,

Its already here and they are called Rice burners.... What has happened to the Rice burners & Bumble bees circut ??? Wasn't NHRA involved in that best thing since slice bread racing ? I agree with Jack & Tony, those guys already have a place to Race....

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

It's called BRACKET RACING at tracks all over the nation & world almost every weekend ! :-)
No fuel check, no scales,no teardown ,any size tire ,any suspension and no AHFS........ :-)
No Pre Entry......................:-)

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

All good points -- if that's your bag ...............

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

I appreciate the responses and unfortunately thats why Class racing will die a very slow agonizing death..

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Dick are you talking about a claimer engine stock class or something of that sort.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

When we built our jr dragster it was 5hp Briggs only min weight was 250 pounds and .030 overbore. Before I knew it they were not even weighing the cars, billit blocks, $3,400 engines and .120+ overbore was the norm. Some cars, I could smell the nitro. One guy had 3 jr dragsters he paid 10 grand apiece for. Althought they bracket race, it still didn't seem fair. I don't think there will ever be a budget class again.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Here's my way of thinking... Stock is not easy! Yes you can build one for cheap ( if you like to go slow) look @ dads car we have about $4000 in it & it runs .3 under. but how many people want to run 15.'s? NOT MANY! Or you can run one of the FWD car but their again not many people want to. I know no 1 likes the idea of this class but we (dad) have a 67 Camaro SS was a 396/325 car factory.... we have bracket raced it for years! & I do mean years... (like 20 now) I would love to put a dish piston 305 in that car BUT we can't... I think their are more cars out their that would do that if they could... that being said I don't see alot of SS/GT car that are older cars now that they have opened up the rules for that? I think the thing that's wrong with S & SS right now is Jr. dragsters... Hey they (for the most part) go right from a Jr. to either a SC car or a T/D ... what do ya do?

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Class racing was supposed to die in 1972 according to the experts of the time.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

aww, come on, you pay the same entry money for a 10 sec car as ya do for a 15 sec car and you get more track time with a slow car...
prolly a good thing this matador i picked up yesterday has so much body damage, it'd come in as a U/SA...(even MORE track time,especially up here)
jsut yankin' yer chain...

the reason I'M getting back into racing is; #1 stock has always amazed me and #2, i want to see if i can be competitive legally, mostly on a local level,though.
that's why i ask a lot of stupil "legality" questions...

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

brodix spec heads would be a start. they could even inspect heads at event. class racing may be dead but for some reason local roundy round tracks are exploding all over the country with a 100 cars a night and 4000 plus spectators, and they have not had to dial in or brake out once. make all the excuses you want but the HRA groups have missed the boat.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Actually, I had gone to a small asphalt oval track in NE Ohio, and they did have a breakout rule, at least in their Stock-type class. The announcer explained what the rules were, and the fans got it with no problem.

For me, there are plenty of options for affordable racing, whether it be brackets or Stock eliminator. I got started in Stock with a FWD car, and bought a crate motor car at a very fair price several years ago. I've spent more money on it of my own volition. Personally, I wouldn't have any interest in a spec class... cookie-cutter cars aren't interesting, and realistically, you're not going to have a "cheap" alternative that's fast & interesting. You *can* race Stock or Hot Rod/Super Street on a budget. If people *don't* race these classes on a budget, it's because they don't want to.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

It did die when they eliminated the old Jr. stockers in 1972 and made them all S/S. It died again in 1985 when the cam and spring rule changed. It died again when they included S/C, S/G at National Events ....less room for class cars (way to many cars now and I know Im going to catch hell for this statement). The last death? T/S and T/D at the NHRA events (again way to many cars, no room for the large rigs, and they take to long to run with thier burn outs past the starting line). Just a few reasons why stock and S/S has dwindled over the years even if you think the CLASS racer car count is healthy. OK....Just my opinion so shoot me.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

X Tech Man is correct as long as NHRA etc makes more and more "excuses" to run BRACKET cars to gain entry money at the events the "class" cars will continue to die off for lack of time, lack of space, lack of motivation by car owners and spectators....If there were only S and SS people could run one or the other but people who run week ends lost the motivation to compete in a class with rules and identiy. THEY wanted to run anything they owned or dreamed of owning so NHRA needing their entry money keeps providing them access. Bracket cars would be a cheap place for all S and SS to enter too since no class at Points meets anyway.Oh sorry that is what they run now..at points meets.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

..

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Dick, i agree 100% and i will be the first to say, i can not afford superstock! My car now has a 406 in it and a delay box, i can get roughly 400 runs out of the motor in the car and every part in it was less than the 3-speed i was going to buy just to keep up with the jones. It runs 6.2's on the 1/8 and it is a ball, every race i attend is 20 minutes from my house and i can race every weekend if i chose. I love ss racing with all my heart and i wish i could continue, but i would like to retire someday ;) i'll still see you fellas when i go and help brother, he hasn't realized this yet but it is coming for him as well.

Joey b

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Joey,You see the secret of where the game is going. Enjoy racing what is reasonable for you. Let NHRA continue to allow MASSIVELY Expensive cars for S and SS. They discourage Class in as many ways as possible with their rules which abuse hard workers and reward WEAKNESS. You have the same "level playing field" locally with the bracket car they give you at a Points meet with a $50,000 SS or S car and you have a shorter drive. Keep in touch. I still love the vette with the 400 HP oval port.(another NHRA victim)
Dick

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

Thanks dick,

the manifold and carbs we got from you are still in our possesion and they will never leave it. They are one of those things that just can't be replaced, and who knows maybe one of those days we'll shove a big block back in the ole vette. Take care and we'll see you at the races.

Joey b

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

The more rules you apply the more time and money it will take to be on top. Some people like the challenge and some don't. There is already classes for both parties.

Re: New Sportsman Classes ?
 

I totally agree that they should have never allowed the fields to fill up with all the various stuff they have now. National events used to be for those that knew how to race and were willing to go through all the hassel it envolved such as teardowns, hard tech ect. Those days are long gone and will never return.