Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Sorenson did go 1.408 under the sea level index in B/SA at Boise. Rumer has it from a very reliable source that the Sorenson boys removed everything possible from the car including draining out all the water just before going on the scales. Guess what? The car was lite and the run was disqualified. This act was not only done in front of fellow racers but NHRA personel also .Apparently several people have voiced their opinions to NHRA but NHRA has a deaf ear so far.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Old Guy

First of all what's your real name??
Use your real name instead of some Bull**** alias and maybe somebody will take you seriously.
Secondly, who's your very reliable source?
Once again we have to endure bull**** from an "anonymous" source.
Before you start to stir the soup consider using your real name so we know if you're really a cook.
Disrespectfully yours,
Chuck Porter
J/SA 668

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Chuck, from previous post his name is Dave Schmitz from Stockton, Ca., Tom

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Tom
Re: Old Guy - Dave Schmitz

I checked Autoimagery for a picture of his car - Nothing there.

I checked DRC for stories relating to Dave Schmitz. Nothing there.

I guess we must have mis-spelled his name Tom. Oh well.

Chuck Porter

One more thing Mr. Old Guy/ Dave Schmitz - Where exactly in the rule book did you find the section that says you can't drain water out of the rad at the scales? I can't seem to find it. Please en"lighten" me.

CP

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Chuck dont be a dick, is it true or not. If he is lying and you know it then bust his balls. How fast did he go, and did he do this? And if you were that close to a 1.40 under run why were you so close on weight. Yes it is bullShYYYYYT to drain water out to avoid this. It also says tow cars not permitted. I would like to see him drive it back to his truck with no water in it.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Herb
Point taken.
Chuck

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Schmidt's for real.
Look under "Darin Grossi" on Auto imagery. That was Dave's driver in his B/SA Mopar. Won some Nationals and Divisionals before the car went to Sweden 2 or 3 years ago.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

well said john dave was a class act for years with his car.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Ok mouth, here goes. My real name is Dave Schmitz and I was given the name Old Guy by Bill Kost many years ago. I was a car owner not a driver so you won't find my car under my name. You will find it under the name Darin Grossi. I sold the car at the end of 2005. Is the name Old Guy a bull**** alias, I don't think so. Bill Kost was a highly respected Div. 6 racer who probably won more races than you have entered. Do I care if you take me seriously? No because you are a nobody with a big mouth. I don't deal in bull**** just facts. My anonymous sources choose to remain that way because they are at Boise and qualified in the top 15. Yes they are actually racing their cars which is more than I can say for you. Of course your probably a bottom feeder anyway.
Removing weight from the car after a run before you weigh is against the rules. But then I wouldn't expect a green horn such as your self to know that. Don't you think draining the water is removing weight?
Steve Dimbo operates the scales at Boise and watched the Sorenson boys drain the water.(lighten the car) Don't get me wrong the Sorenson Bros.are good racers and that car is fast in "A" or "B". They whipped us a couple of times and we whipped them a couple of times. We know each other well.
So there are your answers "Mouth". Sounds like you need to stick to Wed.night grudge racing. You might get lucky and beat some high school kid.

OLD GUY
RIP Bill Kost

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Still as quiet and shy as ever, Dave?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Ya John, just had a stent put in a blocked artery and that punk really pissed me off. Let's see if he has the balls to answer me. One thing is for sure I sure miss all you guys. Thanks for the kind words.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Well written Dave -- and you're right -- draining water is taking weight out .........

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

I'm new at this, but I'll never learn if I don't ask .. why would you want to lighten up before going to the scales after a run? Seems to me you would want to be the other way around...:confused:

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

So he would be declared illegal and not have to take the HP hit on Monday. Jim

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Dave ; I'm glad you are alive and well. Hope its not true about Hal.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

I'm not as old a guy, but I think I remember the same car ran with a hemi as an A/SA back in the 70's - Sutton and Schmitz?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Dave
Evidently we both took a turn at pushing each others "buttons".
Without a doubt I have offended you and for that I sincerely apologize. PM me you phone number and I'l be happy to talk to you in person.
However I still believe anybody that posts should sign their real name. So we have a difference of opinion on that subject.

I don't feel it necessary to compare credentials and I don't know how old you think I am or how long I've been in this racket, but something you might relate to is I'm old enough to remember racing at the old Orange County (OCIR) track well before it closed.

The issue with Hal is not the fact that he drained water out of the rad it is that he HAD to drain water out of the rad to kill a run. I have made no secret of the fact I dislike the AHFS in it's present configuration. For one thing it doesn't take into consideration exceptional conditions like today in Boise. The conditions were beyond mineshaft. Those who normally are fast were real fast today. Those who are normally real fast were bullets today. However the key is these were not normal conditions. So you end up with a HP gift on Monday as a result of unrealistic conditions that may not be duplicated again for years. It doesn't add up to me.

Then I read a post from anonymous contributor, who I felt was taking pot shots at friends of mine and I reacted. I haven't been able to find the rule about taking weight out of the car. Perhaps you or someone can point that out to me sometime.

Chuck Porter

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

I think I remember the 70 E body hemi getting alot of HP on runs where it didnt scale or fuel check at 9am on a below sea level morning.

Ebody hemi 457
Bbody hemi 430

Same motor

So it shouldnt matter if you are light if your giving HP to someone who didnt scale.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

If you think that Dave was tough at the track you should try having him for a boss.

I worked for him (he will claim that I never worked a day in my life) back in the early 80's and he was always a racers racer.

The big problem was all of us getting off to race our cars at the same time.

Glad to hear that you're OK.

Take care,

Bob, Rich & Dave

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

1 633 B/SA Hal Sorensen, Vancouver WA, '69 Camaro 10.159 11.93 -1.771

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Kinda fell into a buzz saw, right Chuck?
As to weight adjustment prior to scales, let me give you a scenerio. You have a B/SA and run another B/SA in eliminations. They beat you by .01 (ignore reaction times) and, just before the scales, someone hands them a 25 lb. bar which they put under the seat. They are OK by 5 lbs.
Is that legal?
Of course not.
Adjusting weight after a run for any reason is not in keeping with the spirit of the rules. That being said, I've got a lot of respect for the Sorensons, and I understand why they did it. The AHFS makes little sense. It would take little effort to write a computer program that converts ET to match actual DA at the time of the run rather than to an arbitrary factor. We do it all the time with our weather stations.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Larry,
Good to hear from you. Noticed you put the cuda in "A" . I remember when Darin and I did that and the dam thing went a 10.12 at Pomona. I didn't think it would go that fast. The toughest thing I ever did was sell that car. So far I have survived Prostate Cancer, a stroke, and now a 90% blocked artery. I am glad to still be here. Love to read your reports on the races. Unfortunately Hal did what he did and the information is from 2 very reliable sources. Read the qualifying sheet and you will be able to figure out who the sources are. Say hi to Patsy for me.
Dave

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Chuck, your name rings a bell but I can't remember what you drove back in the OCIR days. Do you remember my dad's car (my avitar) or other Wilson Ford guys? Just curious.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

RJ
You are correct. Gary and I built that car in 1976 after Butch Leal bought our 65 A-990 car. It ran ok but Don Little was the guy who finally figured out how to really make one run. He also was the guy who talked us into running a Six Pack instead of the Hemi. Smartest move we ever made.

Dave

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

That would be the Fred Henson fiasco. Funnyest thing Fred was responsible for all 27 HP.You say same motor. The truth is the exact same motor. Fred pulled the motor out of the Challenger and put it in the GTX which now belongs to Ronnie West. The E body Street Hemi is history until NHRA fixes that problem.I am really in favor of a personal CIC system. If you go 1.40 under you pay the price not all the guys running the combination.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

John
I understand and agree with what you are saying. I understand NHRA has been approached in the past to develop and implement a program similar to what you are describing. I haven't anything more about it for a long time.
I want to think there is still some sprit left in the interpretation of the rules. However "we" in this sport have deviated so far from the way it was 30+ years ago when I started, that it's hard to define the boundaries of the rules anymore.
I still haven't found the rule in the rule book.
Chuck

RE: Buzz saw - I suppose I did. I guess Dave & I were on a collision course this morning. I hold no grudges.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

I saw Don Little racing this same car at Bakersfield last year I think it was. He said he
was testing it to straighten out some things. But I don't think it was 2 or 3 yrs back?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Because the purpose of weighing a vehicle is to determine "race weight" not "race weight after removing weight".
To determine race weight you would have to fill the radiator back up and of course know how full it was in the first place in order to be accurate.
Geez, if you need a written rule on how to interprut that, you must have a sorry program.

I only raced Dave's 'Cuda once. Darrin beat me....:rolleyes:

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

. For one thing it doesn't take into consideration exceptional conditions like today in Boise. The conditions were beyond mineshaft.

So Chuck,if one of us East coast guys flys in real good air I guess we can just dump weight to discount
the run to avoid a hit?

Ed F.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Well, did the run count or not?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

"The issue with Hal is not the fact that he drained water out of the rad it is that he HAD to drain water out of the rad to kill a run. I have made no secret of the fact I dislike the AHFS in it's present configuration. For one thing it doesn't take into consideration exceptional conditions like today in Boise. The conditions were beyond mineshaft. Those who normally are fast were real fast today. Those who are normally real fast were bullets today. However the key is these were not normal conditions. So you end up with a HP gift on Monday as a result of unrealistic conditions that may not be duplicated again for years. It doesn't add up to me."

Is this a special rule for altitude tracks?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

So ...lets see....You think if the air is so good...won't be duplicated in years....you should be able to set records but not get the AHFS hit in that air ..... interesting. Lot of Chevy racers biten fingernails right now, Is it a 396 or 427...is NHRA gona make Hal count the "run"..... to be continued ...stay tuned

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

The first time we took the IT/SA truck to Topeka we got five horse power for going too fast with a 25 mph. tail
wind. Bob Lang was at that race and I asked him about the tail wind voiding the run, he said the run would be counted. Then I asked Bob Lang, if I made that same run for the "RECORD" with all the same conditions would it set the "RECORD"; Bob Lang's answer, "Too much of a tail wind to set the RECORD"

On Wednesday we get a registered letter from NHRA.......5HP. X 20LBS. Class = 100LBS

If Sorenson does get HP, he won't have to add 100 lbs.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

This is what i had from the Vegas race
A/SA 11.58* 10.287 -1.293 6633 Joe Sorensen 69 Camaro 1969 Chevy 427 425 425 Q VEGAS NATS 1

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

I am a little confused. If he ran 10.159 on a 11.55 index isn't that only 1.391 under?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

This report is troubling in several respects. Checking back to the sequence of qualifying as reported on Drag Race Central, the Q1 sheet lists Hal as running 10.159 in the #1 position. That couldn't have been the run to which the report refers to as 1.408 under the sea level since, if my admittedly suspect math skills haven't failed at a critical point, it would have required -1.150 to hit the -1.40 trigger. That run was not disqualified or it wouldn't have appeared on the sheet.

The Q3 run came fairly late in the day and Dave forwarded the "rumor" of the water draining incident just before 2:30 so it seems likely that the incident didn't occur on the Q3 pass. Allowing for the cockamamie time stamps on message board postings, that leaves only the Q2 run as the most probable point in question unless the run sequence and timing on DRC is erroneous.

Having already run a recorded time less than .01 slower than -1.40 on Q1, to have come back and run even faster (and tripped the trigger) on Q2 would have been either a deliberate effort to hit their own combination with a hefty penalty or the result of complete brain fade. I'm not all that well-acquainted with the brothers but I've watched them in this sport for over ten years and they don't seem to make too many mistakes when it comes to sabotaging their own program and they've had plenty of chances to do so.

Unquestionably, with the cutbacks and trimming of NHRA oversight of Stock Eliminator there are sometimes lapses in supervision of racers at the end of a run. At last year's Autolite Nationals there were "rumors" that a racer had pulled out of line and skipped the scales in order to avoid taking credit for a run that was more than -1.15 and that happened at a national event! At a Divisional, anything could have been expected to have happened.

Clearly, more information is needed. If Hal was DQ'd on a run, which run was it? If he wasn't DQ'd on any run, then there was no verifiable incident of intentional weight removal to avoid being charged with a violation of AHFS and the "rumor" is exactly that, a "rumor." It shouldn't be all that difficult to review the run sheets and pinpoint the offending run. If he was DQ'd on any run, then the run sheet should present clear evidence. In Division 7, run sheets can be bought at the Racers for Christ booth. Are run sheets available in Boise? When there is evidence, let the stoning begin.

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Bob, I "ASSUME" the run that was to light and did not count towards Q was a 10.148. Anyone know for sure?

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

As of this moment there are two Q3 lists on DRC. The one posted at 5:54 PM shows -10.148 while the one posted at 6:18 PM shows -1.159. Things must have been happening pretty fast during those "24" minutes. Jack Bauer must have been on the job? (Apologies to Kiefer Sutherland)

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

Chuck
I have a copy of the 5:54 pm run sheet from DRC showing the 10.148 run. You know my sources are reliable and you probably know who they are. Looks like NHRA is trying to cover this up. To many people witnessed the water draining incidentincluding the scale operator. I am going to try to post the run sheet from DRC. I am not real good with the computer so we will see if I can do it.

Dave

Re: Sorenson 1.408 under at Boise
 

This thread sounds like a political debate.No body wants to answer the question.It's more like
American Idol,a popularity contest.
I wasn't there but it seems like alot of people saw them drop the water from the car,which by the laws of physics means lightening the car.If that isn't a rules infraction then Tom Compton is the second coming of Christ.
Doesn't anyone in this sport with a name ever do anything wrong????????????????????????????????

Ed F.