Overweight Stockers
 

Ya know, I was having a discussion with somebody on another thread about Stock Racers adding weight to their cars to slow them down. Well, me being me I had to get out my trusty old 09 rulebook to have a looksee at weight. Now this is MY humble interpretation of MY black and white rule book (the only gray areas that I can find are in the pictures) but if I am classified as an A/SA car then my car MUST weigh between 8.00lbs. per HP and 8.50lbs. per HP or I'm not classified in the right class and should be DQed. In other words if my car scales at say 8.56 then I'm a B/SA car and should be classified as one. I can't go across at 7.92 and run A/SA so seeing as there is technically a minimum and maximun weight in the RULES why shouldn't it be enforced?
I do know that this was a bit of an issue at the Gainesville points race and after thinking about it I believe that the tech inspector was correct.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I agree. On the other hand, I've often wondered why it's done other than to a car with traction issues? It makes things more prone to breakage. Why not just take timing out? I had a former Stock National Champion show me how he slowed his down .40 by pulling out 25 degrees.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I was told at the Gainsville Points and Gatornationals that a car must fit the class when it crosses the scales. I was asked to spread the word that this would be enforced.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

What about over weight DRIVERS........LOL

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I can't speak for today's racers but in the past some racers would show up at a race and find some heavy hitter in their class and move down a class by adding the 100lbs the NHRA allows giving them a better chance in case they ended up in a heads up situation.

Jim

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Treesavoy, I'm not talking about adding weight to drop a class, I'm talking about running A/SA at B/SA weight to slow the car down.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy, I believe that you are correct. The rule book has the classes broken into half pound increments. It also states that weight can be added / removed to move to another class. Therefore its weight should comply with its class.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA being fat is OK

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy : I know you must be waiting for someone else to point this out, so
if the 1978-79 caddy is 400 lbs heavy in u/sa ,that would mean that it would be
illegal under this interpretation of the weight rule.
The very reason that myself and another AZ racer decided not to build one of
those cars. Just in case nhra decided to enforce their own rules. Combo gone!!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

At the Orlando pts the div 2 tech director ( Jim C) told racers that they must weight no more then the minimum for the next class up. Example if in you were running D/SA you could not weight more then the Minimum for E/SA with your combo. At the Gatornationls I went over the scales more then 150 pounds heavy and the div 2 tech director Jim C told me I would need to take 30 pounds out to make my car legal. After that run I went and talked to two of the national tech directors. They then told me that there was no such rule and I could run as heavy as I wanted to and not to worry about it.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

What if your car is 230 or so pounds over weight...nothing you can do about it as far as taking weight out unless you go through the car a gut it even more...i weigh the better part of 320 and the super stocker i drive is 230 over the min... but there is nothing more that can be done to reduce the weight in the class i run it in....also im not trying to run a class to hide this in the natural class for year model and motor....im taking the 165 allowed for the driver and ate it for breakfast and ridin with twins...lol

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

NHRA has a system for adjusting HP called the AHFS. The system is more difficult to apply due to sandbagging which can sometimes be attributed to running excess weight. Therefore, NHRA SHOULD mandate weight as defined within the parameters of the weight break, i.e., 9.00-9.49 equals C/S-A or SS/G-A, no more, no less.
I'd be willing to bet most, if not all vehicles with drivers can be run within those parameters given NHRA allows movement up or down a class.
I would encourage NHRA to enforce such a rule. It would help the AHFS work as designed.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I think what they are trying to do is make sure we don't have more than 100 lbs. of "removable" weight.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Rocky J, I used to know a Rocky J in Jersey, you wouldn't be him would you? In answer to your question, because the Caddy is a V/8 car and can't fit a lower class then U/SA becomes it's natural class so it would be a natural U/SA no matter what it weighs above 21.99. BUT in order for it to run T/SA it should have to break above 19.99.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Charlie, actually there is such a rule and whoever told you that is mistaken. It's right in their black and white rulebook under "Class Weight Breaks". Either they need to enforce their rules or reword the rulebook.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I agree. There's nothing in the rulebook, express or implied, which indicates that NHRA has a rule requiring racers to run within the 1/2 lb weight break range required for the class. The only wording in the rulebook re: maximum weight is that you can't have more than 100 lbs of "removable" ballast. So my guess is that the only way NHRA can really do anything about excess weight in a class car is if the racer shows up more than 100 lbs. different from one run to another. The theory being that you can't change more than 100 lbs if you only have 100 lbs. of "removable" ballast.

That being said, I'd hope that NHRA notices the trend of racers running significantly heavier than their minimum and doesn't allow it to become policy (if it's not too late already...). If NHRA wants to enforce this "rule" then they need to supplement the rulebook with some sort of unambiguous language.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Its very clear in the rule book

a/sa 8.00 to 8.49
b/sa 8.50 to 8.99.

That tells you exactaly where you need to be. Whats the confusion.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Are you serious? You're a big boy (tall wise) but you don't look that BIG. You carry it well!!

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Guess that Explaines why Brandon Runs M/CM. Cant get any heavier.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Actually Jared, it is expressed in black print on a white page under"Class Weight Breaks". By implying that there is a minimum weight I would guess that that is an implication of there being a maximum weight.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I have seen this rule enforced at a D-4 race. If a racer books a qualifying pass at more than 100 lbs. over the minimum, he cannot remove more than 100 lbs. less than that number regardless of his minimum weight.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy -- I think the only rule that applies is the one listed in the rulebook under Section 4.2 of the General Regulations that says 500lbs.is the maximum amount of permanent ballast allowed .Some readers of this thread are doing some wishful thinking that will never apply .

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Sorry Jack, I won't bite on that one. Unless I see a revision to the rulebook then I've got to say that it should be applied as written. The heading doesn't say "Class Suggestions" or "Class Interpretations" it says "Class Requirements". A requirement of a car running A/SA is that it weigh from 8.00 lbs. per HP to 8.49 lbs. per HP.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy -- Show me otherwise and make a believer out of me ...........if you enforced the rules as you want I'd bet at least 25 to 35 % of any Stocker field would be "pitched" ...........

OK-- that may be a little high but you get it ! ! !

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

This is what happens in D-2 you can not be heavier than the min. weight of the next lower class. You get a warning during time runs and if you dont remove it for elim. you get DQed. This is FACT boys I was told this by Jim C. and watched it happen.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Dead nuts on. Pretty simple.

Umm.... yeh? :rolleyes: Guess people need to put the proper class designation on their cars.

In the interest of full disclosure, I've done it too. The point is, I should *not* have been allowed to do it.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Denny-- If what you're saying is correct -- that makes Billy wrong by as much as several hundred lbs.

Michael -- At least you had the "kahonas" to admit you've done it.........

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Boy, talk about a liberal interpretation of the rulebook. The 100 lbs is supposed to pertain to the weight box and contents. That's why the bolts don't have to be welded.
A car with a stock gas tank can carry another 120 lbs or 20, depending on preference. Still legal to burn up fuel, isn't it?
What about spare tires/ That's another 50-60. Still legal ,as far as I know.
Somebody better get to work changing the rulebook, rather than making it up as they go along.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Billy -Not hijack your thread but I did a little checking in my "archives" and found that you were right about the '77 Seville not being in the books for more than thirty years -- I couldn't tell when it was added but as of 1988 in wasn't in the Official NHRA Classification Guide..........and here I thought you were looking at it even then ! ! But if you wanted to look the '75 Honda Civic was in along with the Hudson Hornet...........

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I have some books from 91,Ill check it tomorrow.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Jennie Craig????????????????????????????????????????

Ed F.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

At the end of the day its up to danny and that where I got my info on this topic. Danny trumps all div tech people end of story.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Jack
maybe I did not word it right, but Billy is RIGHT what I was trying to say is you must fit the class weight
ie. 8.00 to 8.49 and so on.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Maybe it's time for Danny to collect his pension, although the next national tech director might not be any better maybe it's worth a shot.This topic and a few other current issues may well be the beginning of the end for us unless someone in charge has the balls to tackle what ails us.
Bogus:
HP factors
AHFS
Suspensions
Add your own

Ed F.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

I don't really see a problem with someone carrying extra weight. I could really care less if someone is running their car a few hundred pounds heavier than their minimum; just as long as they are not under weight. Running the car heavy certainly will not make it faster. Why not run the car heavy in really good air so as to help not to hurt the combo for everyone else who doesn't have the luxury of racing in good air?

Instead of petitioning NHRA to keep tabs on "over-weighters", why not ask to lower the indexes a tenth or two? Wouldn't that be the most simple thing to do for us and NHRA? Just my two cents...


Ryan Becnel

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

"Are you serious? You're a big boy (tall wise) but you don't look that BIG. You carry it well!! "

yup...it used to be solid muscle back in my ole football days...lol...but yeah i do

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

the reason I was told for your car having to fit the class you are in, is say there are 7 c/sa, 5 b/sa and o a/sa and the slowest of the c/sa cars now enters a/sa to avoid a heads up race that might happen in elims. without changing anything but the letter on the window. People that work on there cars and are fast should understand that this is the only way class racing should be if we dont start some where it will only be a matter of time before there is no heads up or quaifing and it will be just an all run bracket race

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I agree as to the way the rule book reads. ie: between 8.00 - 8.500 as an example. However, that is not the way it has worked for years in S/SS. Last year I made a qualifying run behind the eventual #1 qualifier and heard the scale tech tell him he was 900lbs. heavy. At the end of qualifying he was 1.37 under. National tech and div. tech told me that was perfectly legal. Illegal would be below the minimum weigh on his sticker. I brought up what some are talking about the weight breaks in the rule book (which I agree with) and they laughed in my face. No grey areas..................you guys are right. The only thing black and white is the paper and the print.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

True,running a car heavy will not make it fast,but it will hide a car that is terrible under factored,which is what's causing all the commotion.A tenth or two wont affect the really fast cars,only borderline qualifiers and class winners near the .50 under zone.

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

So then what happens to cars like the portly cadillac? let it run heavy or make it extinct? If we outlaw it we are just doing what so many of you are saying NHRA is trying to do, get rid of the old iron...........

Re: Overweight Stockers
 

Ya - I can see it all now. The next thing we know NHRA will tie the AHFS system to weight. If you cross the scales and are 200 pounds heavy the slug gods will give you 5 horsepower.
Chuck