DQ for "icing"?
 

Interesting description. Anyone know what the story was? Icing in itself is ok, so what was it?

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
6791 Tom Gaynor 77 John McGann
E1 ****WINNER**** -0.038 10.826 121.89 0.006 10.712 121.30
D/SA Dial: 11.85 (+/-): -1.024 D/SA Dial: 11.85 (+/-): -1.138
Qualified: #38 10.942 -0.908 #3 10.724 -1.126

Heads up! John McGann wins on a red light. Gaynor was reinstated because McGann was DQ'ed for icing.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Maybe it was still there at the scales? Aren't you supposed to remove ice in the staging lanes due to the possibility of leaking on the track?

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Jim,

Isn't that a hockey term? The guys from Phoenix and California don't have much experience with that sport.

A trackside reporter tells me that he spilled ice on the track.

c

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Heard on the live feed that he left a trail of ice cubes down the track on the run that stoped the race for clean up .No fine but don,t get to play anymore.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Good one.....but still...you have the Coyotes,ducks and kings in those area's ....LOL

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

I suppose they ought to consider officially allowing "dry ice".

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

I wondered if it was a hockey referee call or maybe the car was decorated like a cake. :)

So I emailed an informed source and he says that ice did land on the track and they pulled the car over on the return road.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

I was guessing he got to the top end and only had cake left, and the tech guys would only eat it with icing...lol

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

At Indy the white Camaro From Cal. B/SA had CO2 pellets on the intake, not ice.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Dry ice, one stocker K/SA at Indy 2007 had dry ice on intake be for he ran in class runs offs and tech made him tear down, because of the dry ice, he was not on the list to tear down before that.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

I understand. I have seen it. I don't dispute the person getting tossed for leaking and all that, but I guess, I wonder if there is any legitimate reason not to allow dry ice in lieu of the obvious cluster it is to remove the ice and water before a heads up run. I am one of those people franticaally trying to get all of the water off of the engine too. I could see it as a legit rule change. Maybe no one has asked?

I have seen the dry ice many times, I see loads of it at Indy. I would use it too if they would let it out of the closet. LOL.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

The white Camaro from California will be hard one to beat in B/SA..even though he is in A now...hmm

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

dry ice is very dangerous

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Hey Vic, please elaborate, there could be some very good reason for not allowing it, but outside of keeping it off of bare skin and not loading up the cockpit of a plane with it, I can't think of what the issue is. Help me out. I use it sometimes in my cooler to keep my food cold over the weekend and I didn't see any skull and crossbones on it. I have seen some pretty stern warnings on cigarette wrappers and NHRA loved that. LOL

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

go to google and put in dry ice dangerous

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

This reminds me of what the great Jim Marshall told me once at the Sports Nats in Ohio. " Back east we bring our horse power for racing and ICE for our beer :) . One of the funniest lines I ever heard. I don't drink much,so I use most of it on the car. That sounds like a judgement call that NHRA uses. I bet there are a few racers that they would let that slide for, not for most though.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

At Maple Grove last year I was lightly admonished for having ice bags on the engine in the staging lanes. The reason being they do not want residual water leaking all over the track. And now that I've thought about it, while watching some friends go through heads-up or record runs, they've done their cool-down just outside of the staging lanes and had someone help them wipe the car down.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Jim is a very smart man.....:confused:

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Vic, this is what I found. Maybe NHRA has a specific concern. I will ask. Not a big deal since I am used to the wet ice routine, but it certainly makes me wonder. It sure seems to me that as racers, we are handling stuff a lot more dangerous than this. On a personal note, I did get my beer too close to my dry ice once and it froze up. That wasn't dangerous, but it was a tragedy. :)

What is Dry Ice?
A copy of the What is Dry Ice? brochure is available in Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF, 369KB, 2pg).

Dry ice is solidified carbon dioxide. When dry ice melts, it turns into carbon dioxide gas. Carbon dioxide gas is always present in the environment, but in low concentrations. It is colorless and odorless.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Safely Using Dry Ice
Carbon dioxide gas is heavier than air, and therefore, it can pool in basements or other low areas.

When transporting dry ice, always keep vehicle windows open to bring in fresh air.

The quantity of dry ice used in a regular storage freezer or refrigerator is unlikely to produce carbon dioxide gas in sufficient quantity to cause a health problem. Dry ice can readily be used to keep foods cool in those types of containers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there any special precautions I should take when using dry ice?
There are a number of important precautions to take when handling dry ice:

Dry ice is much colder than regular ice, and can burn the skin similar to frostbite. You should wear insulated gloves when handling it. Wear safety glasses and a face shield if you are cutting or chipping it.
Keep dry ice out of the reach of children.
Never eat or swallow dry ice.
Avoid inhaling carbon dioxide gas.
Can I actually suffocate from dry ice?
Dry ice can be a very serious hazard in a small space that isn't well-ventilated. As dry ice melts, it turns into carbon dioxide gas. In a small space, this gas can build up. If enough carbon dioxide gas is present, a person can become unconscious, and in some cases, die.

Can I use dry ice in a walk-in cooler or freezer?
It is very dangerous to use dry ice in a walk-in freezer, cooler, closed truck bed, or other small space with poor ventilation. A large amount of dry ice in a walk-in cooler or freezer can produce a great deal of carbon dioxide, which can possibly be fatal to someone entering that space.

What are signs of being exposed to too much carbon dioxide?
Symptoms of overexposure to carbon dioxide include headache and difficulty breathing, and with greater exposure, nausea and vomiting.

What are some tips for using dry ice to keep foods cool?
Order dry ice in the form and size in which it will be used. It can be difficult and dangerous to cut.
Store dry ice in a container that allows some leakage. If unvented, carbon dioxide gas can build up pressure inside a jar or container as dry ice melts.
How much dry ice will I need?
The quantity of dry ice you will need to maintain temperature in a storage freezer or refrigerator will vary. Some basic tips for using dry ice to cool foods are:

In a Refrigerator:
A home-style refrigerator may use about 10 pounds of dry ice per day.
Dry ice may freeze items, so place foods that may become damaged by freezing as far from dry ice as possible.
Place ice on the bottom of a household type unit. Place newspaper or other materials as insulation on glass shelves to prevent the shelves from cracking.
Keep liquids tightly covered so they do not become carbonated as the refrigerator fills with carbon dioxide.
In a Freezer:
A chest freezer may use 40 to 50 pounds of dry ice per day, placed on top of the food.
A home-style refrigerator/freezer combination unit.
A unit with the freezer on bottom may use 15 to 25 pounds per day, placed on top of food.
A unit with the freezer on top may use 20 to 30 pounds per day, placed on top of and surrounding food.
A unit with a side by side freezer may use 30 to 40 pounds per day, placed on top of and surrounding food.
How do I dispose of dry ice?
Because dry ice can cause carbon dioxide gas to accumulate and build up pressure, do not dispose of dry ice in a sewer, garbage disposal, garbage chute, etc.
Allow leftover dry ice to melt and turn into gas in a well-ventilated area.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

13 hours of drinking in the backwoods of Vermont and I thought it was called "before" making a run. Ah, what the hell do I know....

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

The last official word by NHRA on this was:

NHRA tech department reminder on manifold cooling

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07/06/2004

The NHRA Technical department has noticed a number of Stock competitors spraying intake manifolds with an aerosol can, more specifically computer cleaner, which can reduce the temperature of the manifold to 62 degrees.

The 2004 NHRA Rulebook, on page 192 states that any method of artificially cooling or heating is prohibited: "Cool cans, wet towels, ice, etc., are permitted in Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street, and E.T. classes. Wet towels, rags, ice, etc., must be removed before the vehicle leaves the staging area. Ambient-temperature air only; cooling or otherwise changing of the intake air is prohibited."

The use of these cleaning products is in violation of the NHRA Rulebook, thus ice and wet towels are acceptable forms of cooling, spraying of intake with any artificial spray or coolant is prohibited.




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Nothing has changed since then. Dry ice on the intake is legal. It may be frowned upon, but it's legal.

The one that really gets me is the practice of the west coast racers spraying there radiator, engine, hood, firewall, and air cleaner with ice water, right before a run, and not drying it off. I guess the constant cold, wet mist helps ET huh?

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Thanks for revisiting that. I ws told "dry ice" was not legal, but your clarification would lead me to believe otherwise. I will check into it with NHRA. I remember that some guys were really frosting intakes for awhile with the aerosol cans. Worked good too. Thanks. Good discussion for an otherwise boring day. I wish we were ready to race, but then I remember all of the work I need to be doing to the car! Better get back to work on it.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Dry Ice, Aerosol cans of air, N2O, Any form of cooling your engine/trans, artifitially with any sort of chemical is not only unstable, but deemed illegal by NHRA. I always thought the main reason was the residual gasses left in the engine bay, these gasses would get sucked up in the first couple hundred feet of a run where all the ET is made up. Cold rags, Conventional ice, or a fan, all leave no chemical residue.

I know I used to use a bottle of N2o to cool my converter when we ran comp many years ago.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

The rule, as found in the revisions and in the rule book, states that ice is legal. It does not state wet or dry ice, simply ice and icing are legal.

Dry ice is nothing more than frozen CO2. And CO2 is used in everything from fountain drinks to welding. CO2 is inert. When dry ice boils, the frozen CO2 turns back into a gas, but it is still inert. There is no residue left behind. The fact is humans exhale CO2 every day.

The reason spray cans are illegal is because most of them use a propellant that is not inert. And they do leave behind a residue, most generaly a CFC of some kind.

There can be no performance advantage if somehow there was a large build up of CO2 under the hood and it
got drawn into the engine. As stated, it's inert. It would simply take up space that oxygen and fuel would normally take up.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

It was a Joke, lighten up :)

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Yes I know.......I was just kidding :D

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

As coowner of the offending car I think it's time to explain what happenend in this embarrasing scenario.John[aka]Wes and I take full responsibility for "icing" the race track.Plain and simple 1 of 5 sandwich size bags with ice in it was overlooked in the rush and frenzy that occurs in the lanes before a heads up race.It was hiding under the air cleaner base by the distributor.From where I was standing on the starting line it sure looked more like 10 lbs of ice because there were ice cubes to 330ft.Embarassing to say the least to out run your competition and be DQ'd for an easily preventable mistake.So be careful make sure you buy the " ZIP" lock bags and don't let this happen to you.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Hi Larry,

We used ice and poured cold water through the engine at Indy. Please do not respond for us. Thank you for the consideration. See you at the races.

Jimmy DeFrank

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

What's unfortunate is one guy drops some ice cubes on the track and get's DQ'd and another drops a header collector which hits the 330' photocell and doesn't get DQ'd; all at the same race! :mad:

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Can dry ice pellets be dumped into a radiator? At Indy, I saw something a bit odd. During Stock class eliminations, I saw a racer dump what appeared to be ice into his radiator, but then saw him "fishing" out pieces of plastic that were floating around in the tank, almost like "pellets" that may have been packed in plastic.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Dry ice boils when immersed in water. Great effects for a band, not so good for a race car.
Years ago we ran alcohol in the cool can and added dry ice.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Art Leong, What happens when you put dry ice in the fuel cell?

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

I would'nt doubt that art has tried that but you better make sure that the vent is working really good

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Artie;
Stop giving away all the good stuff for free.Start charging for the info.

Ed

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Jimmy, its always great to see you you at the races, hope to see you before Indy.
I know what I saw!

Larry

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

This practice of cold water and ice has been going on for many years, I can remember first starting out in the early 80's with a friend of mine at E-Town. He did the same prior to his Record runs, or class elim. back then they ment someting. Today a class win in some classes is still a great achievment, but others only have to race themselves, where is the fun in that.

I can understand being DQ'd for this, realisticly you should be DQ'd for dropping anything on the racing surface, water, fuel, headers, whatever... I have seen alot of cars that somehow get past tech and on thier first run of the day drop **** out of the car. Water from ice has got to be the easiest thing to cleanup...

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

I did that back in the late '60s, early '70s. Found out I had moisture in my fuel once when the fuel in the cool can line line froze on the way to the staging lanes. Kinda embarasing. Sure made for some cold fuel.

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

There is most likely a safety angle to this. If you don't keep it in check people could get hurt. Last year running Jr stock at Atco, I had some water get under my rear tires and about the 330' mark my car made a quick right turn and got on 2 wheels. No body was hurt and nothing was damaged, ( Except my shorts :) ) but water came out of my cool can because ice kept a part of the lid from sealing. The same thing could happen from a bag of ice, or water. I bet that never happens again to that guy that got dq'ed. Just my 2 cents..

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Maybe I missed it at the time of the ruling, in regards to prohibiting the computer keyboard spray, but was there a reason given for it being outlawed? I would think one would want to use it, if only for the fact that it could get stray water droplets/ice cubes out of hard to reach places, bolt holes, etc?

Re: DQ for "icing"?
 

Mikey, it has CFCs that are not too environmentally friendly.The stuff really cools things down and if you touch the manifold if someone got a little nuts(nah,drag racers wouldn't do something stupid like that)you would get the same result as touching dry ice.

Ed

Instead of removing the water it would probably freeze it.Going down the track it could return back to liquid and cause problems down track.I think NHRA is correct in their ruling to ban the spray and to also ban dry ice.I forgot the price but someone i know who used dry ice said the price was high and it's not available everywhere.