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While the thread about "Crate Engines" is very intertainning (has been for me....lol) why dont some of you expend the same kind of energy in trying to figure out ways to increase the pay outs, and/or better conditions (round money, win and runner up, sheduling, pitting, tear downs, classes, stick vs auto,etc.). Maybe you could talk Alex into putting on another U.S. CLASS NATIONALS ??? Or several of them across the country. THAT was without a doubt the best race I ever went to. Maybe some who were there will remember it. Maybe the timing was wrong when it came about but it DID make NHRA and IHRA sit up and pay attention at the time. East vs West. North vs South. NO @&%* Pro cars to oil down the track. All the banter back and forth wont change the way racers feel about one class or another. Some like blueberry and some like strawberry. NHRA has thier way and IHRA has thier way....face it. Take your pick. I personally like ALL of it. The sportsman classes are just a filler for the Pro's and a convienant way to squeeze money from everyone in both associations and they couldnt care less about you. All of the record keeping, specs. tear downs, etc. are a drain on manpower and cost them money. If these bracket races can put on a race and pay what they pay out then so could the racing associations and/or circuit type race for sportsman racers. Yeah the presteage of winning the Nationals wont be there but I personally would rather win some good money instead a kick in the ***. It takes a lot of money to run these cars every year and wouldnt it be nice to at least break even once in awhile? Comments are welcome......lol.

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Terry,
That thread, and dozens like it, are exactly why there are no big money races, and no respect from the sanctioning bodies. But then, being a couple decades older than me, with the attending experience, you knew that, didn't you. :cool:

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I doubt that threads like these really have anything to do with pay outs. They dont respect the sportsman racers anyway even 20-30 years ago. Its because everyone keeps going to thier races and paying out the butt for memberships, entry fee's, and paying for the salaries of the over paid people in charge in the "IVORY" tower.

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Terry,
The point was, as obviously proven out in that thread, and others like it, is that class racers will not band together and stick to it, to promote their own best interests. That thread, by itself, of course, ignores the issues of payouts, tear downs, pits, entry fees, contingency awards, and most other issues.

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I agree with you 100%.....Most (not all) have thier own agendas. Its been that way even before the use of home computers and this racers site. The U.S. CLASS NATIONALS that Alex put on will sadly most likely be a one time happening. With the economy the way it is there will be less and less money going back to the racers. Only the rich with large egos will survive.

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US Class Nationals: Best race I ever attended also. Was greeted and thanked for coming as I entered the gate and again thanked for attending when leaving. Hot as hell and sandy pits made me think that there would be marginal traction. Wrong! Redman kept the starting line hooking all through qualifying and elims. If a car turned a tire, racing was shut down and the starting line prepped. Rans were within .002 on 60 thru qualifying, class, quick 32 and elims on 6 customers cars. Air was terrible as temps were over 100 degrees thru the whole weekend. On Thursday the head of tech came to trailers and did a very thorough tech inspection for those who arrived early. Down time was practically non existant as cars were going down the track from opening to curfew. Spectators were there in good numbers Fri.Sat.Sun. blankets and picnic lunches spread out all over the hillside on the far side of the track. Payouts were good and logical (as in parts that S/SS racers actually use). Most contingency sponsors had at least one rep there. The several I spoke with were more than pleased at the success of the event. Racers I spoke with over the weekend were pleased and surprised by the attendance. The lanes and pairing was accomplished in a logical and timely fashion because people that had actually raced were handling those duties. I was surprised at the lack of attendance of the traveling pros considering the payout, but maybe there was another race somewhere? I was surprised that some tech officials that were asked to participate were told by their bosses to decline. I was surprised that all time runs and elims started according to schedule due to the number of cars entered and being a first time for the US Class Nationals. Apparantly people that have actally raced in competition know how to run a race and conduct business. I'm sure that everything behind the scenes wasn't perfect and I'm sure that everyone was not 100% satisfied but the majority seemed to be having a great time and seemed to be in a racing frame of mind.

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UH.....that was me.....I thought I was going to die from the heat but we wanted to make sure everyone had the chance to get in every time run as possable instead of waiting in a long tech line.

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I'm not understanding why everyone says '...NHRA should do this or IHRA should do that...'.
Why hasn't someone thought '...Gee, why can't we do that..'. Why does a US Class Nationals or Class Nationals or some form of, have to be an NHRA event? Get a promoter and some sponsors and make it happen. Maybe some of the Srac members like Woodro and a couple good tech guys like yourself, Terry, (not that I'm volunteering you guys.lol) could tech and supervise teardown.

Class runoffs, NHRA rules. Heck, the Hemi cars are a show in themselves. A/stick was a hit at Indy.
Throw in a Top Stock or Top SS and you would have quite a show. It's not like there aren't enough class cars out there to make a great field.

Am I the only one to see what Ron Christianson did with a bunch of bracket cars?

______________________

Andy Stone 1102 B/S 1112 SS/C

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Alan,
You are right about the banding together. Most racers have a selfish agenda and they might not even be able to admit it.They own a car they know.
Agenda: They have a car worth money and are afraid someone will change the overall rules just enough to put them at a disadvantage or make them change their class of competition or make a change which changes the importance of their beliefs about Drag Racing in the sportsman group.(arent the rules moving all the time anyway)
1)Manufacturers money or postings : as number of classes goes up (or stays HIGH like now) Too much $ to post for all class winners on a product if cars only buy a product one time and make it last for several seasons.Most want it to go to a racer not NHRA so with large posting some is lost to the NHRA pool.
2) As long as the racer gets to have a massive number of class choices and combinations this will not change.BYE runs still get contingency. If not the racers would move to a contested class on their own.
3) With no draw for a crowd of spectators ,stands are empty for bracket racing of CLASS cars at points meets and Nationals. No exposure of product names for advertising. Less important use of money than Dragster ad or magazines.
4) Sportsman racing has gone from racing a smaller number of classes with Names for the winners (Because of publicity and spectator knowledge) to dilution of the racing which decrease some class win importance or publicity since it is rarely done or minimally seen.
5) Due to the results of trying to get more entrants and pay less advertising NHRA has convinced themselves Sportsman racing is a Participant sport. Make a class for everything it is only Dial in anyway.The more classes accepted in the gate the more entry money. Result not many in a class so limit class racing at the event. ( the viscious circle)
That pools the cash and limits the people who deserve to split the pot of money into one elimination.
5)Fix it? it can be done but uncomfortable and unpopular to think of the things needed.
I doubt over 10-20 guys on this site would accept the changes even if they thought it would work.Agendas!

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Andy....it was done several years ago by Alex Denysenko and NOT by NHRA or IHRA. It was a killer race. Maybe it could happen again....who knows?

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I agree, I think the time is right for another class nat'ls. nhra rules would eliminate the ihra class cars, who in my opinion should be included , after all they would have some different classes and therefor be entitled to class runoffs as well. This could be accomplished with more action and less speculation. I would be willing to help out , anyone else?

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Dick,
I'm not so sure a lot needs to change so much in Stock and Super Stock.If anything,they need to raise the event quotas.This is the current entry list stats for Pomona.

02/05/2009 - 02/08/2009 - Kragen O'Reilly NHRA Winternationals

Category Quota Entries % Full
Top Fuel Dragster 24 7 29.2%

Fuel Funny Car 24 11 45.8%

Pro Stock 26 17 65.4%

Top Alcohol Dragster 24 19 79.2%

Top Alcohol Funny Car 24 24 100.0%

Competition Eliminator 50 15 30.0%

Super Stock 80 80 100.0%

Stock Eliminator 80 82 102.5%

Super Gas 130 112 86.2%

Event Total 462 367 79.4%

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You are correct.A BIG SS/S race that combines NHRA/IHRA cars could probably draw huge fields if the payouts were good and it was an all run field.The U.S.Class Nationals had 187 Stockers for the first round.A ladder was still created.

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Jim and Jim with the S/SS Association have a good thing going. I only see it getting bigger. We had alot of fun in Gainesville @ the Super Chevy show. It paid out good and almost everybody entered won something.

One problem I do see though is alot of your S/SS guys will not race outside of the NHRA/IHRA. They have to much money in their cars to "bracket race" them is one excuse I have heard. I wonder how many S/SS guys would show up for a $10,000 to win race with a good payback?

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Maybe we will get the chance to see later this year? Sad to say though a lot wont come to something like that because they wont earn any "GRADING POINTS".

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Crisco , If you need anything from the N.C east coast ,let me know. Sounds like you got something on your mind. Jim , I will see you in Fla in about 3 weeks .

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Who me? I'm always thinking about something.

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442
The fact the field is full is important. Still interested. Plenty of cars who want to attend and race.
Are they running class? of the 80 cars in either S or SS how many would be bye runs or unfilled classes with the number of classes currently available. How many people would be attracted to watch the bye runs. They will be there to see Class Racing requiring at least 2 cars. Thats the part they would enjoy. Yes there are die hards who understand, and appreciate the Class cars and enjoy the dial in eliminator.
(No I am not proposing this but) What if there were10 classes of Stock or 10 classes of SS and it happened that each had 8 cars to run off in Class? Do you think the appeal at all levels of spectator, racer and sponsor could be improved? I DO. Then on to eliminator with the added PRIDE of having won class and contingency(because more sponsors could afford to pay winners of classes)
Thanks.

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I think the originator of this thread has a very good point, does it really matter to most of the racers that they are competing at an N or an I race? I hear alot about so called agendas, not quite sure what is meant by that other than the desire to win which I think most all racers have. I'm sure there are some people out there that are concerned with protecting their class, that's fine but really WHY DO WE RACE? For the money,for the trophy or for the self satisfaction of making a vehicle do something that no one else can? Myself I could care less if the race were put on by Oprah it's the competition and the desire to make it better that keeps me going. Face it what other sport reqires so much effort and expense and returns so little? I think a independently run series would be great I can hardly read a thread post that someone isn't going on about how badly they feel their being treated by N or I, so why keep going? what is it about racing that makes us go to a race where we know we're going to leave feeling we were wronged? Plain and simple I think for most it's the competition, what else could make us keep going back just to be "slapped around by the santioning bodies? I know there are some people on this message board that would have the contacts and desire to put something like a "Class Nationals" together I'm not one of them, I would however offer my support to it. If everyone would just check their ego's we are basically very expensive bracket racers. Wish someone would put as much effort into providing a viable solution to what appears to be a universal complaint " no respect, low payout, ran as filler ect." than to just keep repeating what the problem is. Joe

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Joe,
you are correct, the ssssa was formed due to those concerns, there are also many other associations with the exact same values. It is up to the racers to support these organizations. there will always be people who would find something to complain about no matter what. life is too short to be unhappy and miserable at what someone feels is not right, Either adjust things and enjoy it or get out, Most racers want to have fun again going to the races. When I started out it was a blast , then it got to the point where it owned me and it was like a job and I thought if I didnt race , then they would cancel the race if I didnt showup. Low and behold business stopped me from racing for a couple of years, when I returned I enjoyed it more than ever . The stock/superstock racers are truly the heroes of our sport and deserve to be the attraction and not the filler, It is very refreshing to hear fans come up to the ssssa officers and tell us what a great time they had watching s/ss battle it out. Many times i've been told how really nice and cordial the s/ss racers are. So lets all band together and keep the class racing fun for everyone.

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Were it a financially viable, we would have had perpetual US Class Nationals. Alex did a wonderful service to the best of his ability and by his own public admission....didnt pocket tons of cash. No it wasnt perfect, and yes the second year I am sure he would have done some things differently. Overall it was a remarkable success.

I didnt see any other philanthropist pick up the financial ball like Alex. There are tons of guys out there with more financial resources than Alex, where are they? If Alex would have made a ton of money it would have continued and the pundits told to go *&)* themselves. This is the way of capitalism as we know socialism doesnt work! No matter how successful, there is always a pundit willing to evicerate you.

Until innovation or concerted marketing in our sport occurs, we have what currently exists. I personally believe we should market ourselves, and do heads up racing ourselves. Who else is going to do it if we dont?

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I do understand that bsically all things are fueled by money, that being said would'nt you rather give a yearly fee to an organization that more catered to your needs? I mean we don't think twice about sending a check to N or I yearly that money of course goes toward their operating expenses. The problem I see is their more interested in operating for the pro's the show or what ever you want to call it. I've been involved with several local "series" over the years and for the most part the all failed due to lack of racers support or the indifference of some of the local track owners. The UMTR is still going and has a reasonable amount of races and some good turn outs, this is just one that comes to mind. As with anything there are going to be some people who are unhappy with this or that but it seems to me we already have that problem. Making everyone happy is impossible and should not be the basis of any organization pleasing the majority is the most desired resultI would like to hear from some people who have good ideas as how something like this could be done.Joe

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I don't have the resources to do it, unless it were done with pre-entries, and I hate that idea. There's a lot that I could do to help someone on such an event, along the lines of design & printing, though. Compiling contingency sponsors for the race would be the biggest and toughest chore, I think -- as well as being a necessary component.

But let's just say there was to be a race... what are we looking at in terms of a date and venue?

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Micheal, you coming to imokollee?

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Yessir! Maybe we'll get some "free time" to sit down and **** chat about such things...