Index Changes
 

Well for all you Guys and Gals that have been interested in the Index changes for 2009, i have been informed that there will be no change in the index's or to the trigger, it all stays the same.

Re: Index Changes
 

anything else of interest for next year, woody?

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Woodro's right . I just got the e-mail that he did. This tells you all how much influence the SRAC has. We voted 6 to 1 to lower the indexes 2 tenths and leave the hp triggers where they are. As some of you know I voted against this. The larger point is that we as The SRAC have had very little if any meaningful input into what happens to Stock and Super Stock. It's almost like anything we vote for gets shot down because we are for it. This change passed the Stock- Super Stock committee and the div. directors committee before being canned by the rules committe in Glendora.

Greg

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As we here in WV say, "Its their coal mine."

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Woodro, Greg and all members of the committee: your efforts as a voice for the sportsman racer are still appreciated, regardless of the outcome on NHRA's end.

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Thank you for your efforts. We were afraid that would be the result. Again Thanks to Len Imbrogno who had that similar experience in his time at NHRA.

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I second that.

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Same here Greg.

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Woodrow, Jeff and all on the SRAC, I also declare my support and appreciation.

Woodrow, do you know who ultimately makes such decisions? I know there was a document published that describes the process, but such a document is like a corporate organizational chart - somebody's wish about how things are done. Personality and relationships carry the power.

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Woodro, What have you heard about intake & exhaust port volumes for stock, for 2009 ? Talk at noble points meet, not pouring intake & exhaust ports for 2009, Tom

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Dwight, it seems like there are about 4 committees, including the SRAC and no matter how the first 3 vote, seems like the final committee in Glendora has the say, and as Greg has pointed out, as of late anything we have brought to the table has been turn down. When i was appointed to the SRAC and attended the First meeting in Gainesville i was not aware of how this was going to work, and believe me, i don't think my counterparts did either. Looks like about 2 people run the show , from rules and policies down through Tech. As of now, a lot of us in the SRAC have put in a lot of work representing what the Racers desire,and i don't see any Future in the SRAC the way things are going! Maybe our opinion's were to strong for them! Believe me, you Guys were well represented, you may not of gotton some of the issues you asked for, but they were presented.

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Tom, they will not tell us anything and at this point and time, everything you hear is pure speculation!

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looks like thje same treatment len imbrogno got...
only you guys dont get paid !!!

i suggest a group "kiss our ***" and then disbanding would make you guys feel better.

thank you for your time and efforts... jack mccarthy

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..too many Chiefs, not enough Indians.

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If I were going to take a guess I'd go with Gracia and Light.Two fine upstanding backers of NHRA sportsman racing.With them two at the helm the Titanic would have never made it off the dock.

Ed F.

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Any news if we are racing quarter mile or 1000' next year? If 1000', I need to be shopping for some 7:17 gears!

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Woody, You know I appreciate all you and the SRAC have tried to do. I think we all knew this would be the outcome. Len had enough of it, I don't blame him! His head was bloody from hitting the brick wall daily. Thanks to you and the other members of the SRAC. Jim

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Randall, I had a racer call me last night after talking to the tech dept. in Glendora and they told him we were running 1/4 mile next year.

Greg

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Whats that old saying about city hall? You can't fight city hall or something like that! You guys tried and did you best, and when you stop beating your head against the wall it must fell really good! Thanks for trying. !!!!!!!!! John Lang

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If they are not going to pour heads in stock next year,why are they throwing guys out now for being a few ccs over the SS spec?

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To all the racers,

Woodro and Greg couldn't have stated it better. We have gone to bat and spent many hours debating issues to better the sport, but in most cases our requests have fallen on deaf ears. Most of us feel as if we wasted our time. The big dogs ensured us that we'd make a difference, but i don't see how. At this point, it would be my suggestion for anyone interested in seeing either lowered indexes or raised triggers to flood your division office, as well as the Glendora office, with emails, letters and phone calls.

I hate to burden the division offices with this stuff, but as a community we now need to band together and voice an opinion.

Thanks,

Evan

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Maybe the final call is left up to the big guys for just this reason. Car counts are down, Fuel cost are sky high, and people are droping out of class racing. But now we want to make it harder to be competitive, and over all increase the expenses of goin to the track. Thank god there was at least one division that put someone in the committe that has a clue what this rule change would have done! Thanks Glendora for not allowing this to take place! If were not goin to lower the trigger then I think the bottom trigger should change. Any run less then -.600 should get automatic hp back, Get those combos so it doesnt cost 25k to go 1.1 under! Id hate to know what it cost to get a car the will run 1.61 under! And dont give me the "hard work and long nights" speech on goin fast. Nothing makes a car go fast but money, or soft combos!

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Lyn - I couldn't agree with you more!!!! Or even a half cc small as was the case for us in KC!!

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It doesn't cost $25,000.00 to run a second under. Probably would if you have to hire everything done, but not if you know how to do things yourself.

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Stockracer,

The point of the matter is that we're not just talking about the elite, fast cars in Stock. The weak trigger affects many combinations, some not so fast. At just about any national event you can watch the top 33% of the field sandbag so as not to go 1.15 under. That is not racing.

The fact is, the NHRA has allowed many modifications over the last five (or so) years, but has not updated the AHFS in a favorable manner to "factor" in for the performance gains from said modifications. I don't think we need to shave the indexes and hurt the slow guys. Your suggestion is that the slow guys shouldn't have to work at all to get a hp reduction. That is plain wrong because all you would have is sandbagging. I mean come on. You are right in that it does take money to go fast, but it also takes money to have nice things in life. And for some, a fast Stocker is one nice thing. It is not a right. No one said racing Stock Eliminator should be easy or affordable for everyone.

I know that sounds rude, but it is the reality of life. I would like to live in a mansion and race Pro Stock, but I can't afford it. So, I have a modest home and race a class I can afford.

Evan

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Ed how much do you have in your motor?

Your not rude and I believe people should work for what they get. Sand bagging for the majority is not for hp factors. Maybe up where you have mineshaft air but in the normal racing condidtions you have to try to go 1.15 under! If your sandbaggin its trying to pick up a duck (go fast guys that cant dial there car), a break bye, or avoid a heads up! Sand bagging in almost all cases that I know of is only to best place your self on the ladder, I dont know anybody that can go 1.15 under that baggs to the bottom. And the last time I was at the track, and looked at the points, top 10 qual dont mean anything.

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I have a SS car, not a stocker. I built it myself. The places to spend it is where it counts. Heads, intake and valve train. Mine is only .030" over, with off-the-shelf JE 3 ring pistons, no lightening no trick mm rings, etc. I spent it on Dave layer heads, and the Hogan intake he reccomended. Cheap Scat rods, stock stroke crank, no small journals with spacer bearings, etc. Jesell rockers and PAC springs for reliability. A stocker would be a lot cheaper. Best I have gone is 1.05 under in 2400' air. Haven't been in better air and a good starting line too. I don't have big tires and a 4 link. There are a lot of a LOT faster cars out there than mine. Nobody that has seen my car will tell you it's high dollar. Still has the 1996 factory paint on it. And, yes I know I'm not fast. Can't seem to leave on time either. :-)

I see guys at Div 4 points races that can go more than 1.15 under, but sand bagging to the bottom of the ladder. I'm not smart enough to know why. Heck, if I can get on the SIDE of the ladder I want I'm lucky.

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So how much do you have in it? Your time, and what is your time worth? A stocker can run -.5 in superstock with the same combo. Besides the bs caddilac combo id say the lt1 is the softest combo in SS. Id venture to say it cost more to go -1.00 under in stock with your combo then in SS. But to be the fastest or have a shot at class, how much we talking? I know how much a complete stocker and a complete super stock motor small block/big block, pass the barn, and last, would cost. Priced and bought them all. Put your time and effort in a 350/255 and see how you fair doin it your self, Now if time means nothing then Im sure you could beat it and thrash it for a couple of years, but I like having my chance at winning!

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I think thats why the indexes remained the same. Alot of racers/sponsors voiced their opinion at the proper offices.

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So why don't they take all the data they've accumulated over the years, apply some science to it, and adjust all of the HP factors once and be done with it. Anything less, and the gaming of the system will continue.

"NHRA All Out" ;)

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As a stock eliminator racer for more then 30 years, I've seen alot of changes that doesn't make sense to the class. The original flavor of "STOCK" was stock and not modified stock. No after market parts like lite weight pistons, or Schubeck lifters that was not even thought if that part didn't belong to the car. If you wanted to put after market stuff into your car, you went to Super Stock. Some of the cars are more Super Stock then what they are supposed to be is "Stock". It's too late now to change the back to the old style stockers. Leave the indexes alone so that the people who have a stocker can still compete with the so called Stockers. I personally don't care if people want to go 2 seconds under, a $2.00 bottle of shoe polish evens everything up. It's a bracket race with expensive engines.
Casey Miles
248H E/S because of 4hp

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[QUOTE=stockracer;89753]So how much do you have in it? Your time, and what is your time worth?

I don't have any more time in it than some guys spend sitting around swilling beer and watching stick & ball games. It's my hobby, I enjoy working on it. I have never added up what I have in it. Maybe $10,000.00, not much more if any. I could do it cheaper next time. I could dupicate my whole car for what some guys spent buying their engines. It's nothing special, but it's better than the driver. <G>

> A stocker can run -.5 in superstock with the same combo. [QUOTE]

Which is exactly why I say SS the indexes are too soft. I know several Div 4 LT1 stockers that can run at least .5 under in SS. It's impressive how fast some of them are, especially considering how much extra weight they are carrying in stock.

Stock? Don't have one, so am not concerned with their indexes or anything else they do. I don't see anything "entry level" about it.

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So, Stockracer, do you race a 350-255 combo? If so, and you are looking for sympathy you are out of luck. That combo is one of the three most-beat-on combos in all of stock racing. If you want to find racers to agree with you that there is something unjust or evil about the fact that most people can't run 1.1 under with that engine, you won't find it here. There is also nothing unjust about the Caddy you referred to, or the LS1 being able to run fast easily. If you had been around in 1969, the 350-255 was in the same position. You gotta be savvy, smart and thick-skinned. This ain't no game for you if you want someone else to carry your baggage. "You pays yo' money an' you takes yo' choice."

Good post, Ed.

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Dwight,
That is why he is Ed 'Wright' because he is right ....

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Like Hedley Lamar said in Blazing Saddles "OOOH kinky,but I like it".That would be something.........

Ed F.

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Looks like the 396/375 guys can do it by their selfs the way they been running this year. With what looks like another 5 HP coming up at the end of the year, the Ford guys don't need to build a Chevy..... they get for free.

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Dont you think for one minute i wouldnt love to make the new indexes, i have all the data from 93 till now, so.............