Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

From 1957 thru 1961 Chevy had a automatic called the TURBOGLIDE ,most of you probably don/t remember this I had one in my 1957 Chevy Belair. It looked like a Aluminum Powerglide with one important differince it was a 3 SPEED automatic. That means any of you racers in Stock who have a 1960 or 1961 Chevy can legally use a Tubo 200 or turbo 350 LEGALLY ,,!!!!! I guess you have to be over 50 years old to remember it but the transmission guys surely should be able to confirm it, anyway just a gift of info fo the 1960 to 1961 racers It has to be a very small group but hope this helps you out Jack McCarthy..

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

I am old enough to remember it, I always thought it was more of a single speed "Dynaflow" type tranmission. If I remember correctly the gear selector said P-N-D-Gr. The last position was "Gear Reduction" for engine brakiing.

No being a GM guy I'll vote for allowing a direct drive out of a sprint car. :-)

Fortunately for the GM guys I have now shared my total knowledge of the subject.

Bill

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

wikipedia TURBOGLIDE it explains that it is a 3 speed and how it works , guess your no old enough yet? LOL

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

You must have SNOOZED thru the last discussion on this.....

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...ght=turboglide

Mr. Dedman is in the hospital and can't post right now.....GET WELL MR.BILL !!!!

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Also the Dynaflo trns was a 2 speed and had the first swtch pitch torque convertor, I worked at ROSSI transmissions in the early 70's and we had customer with a 1957 buick Jr. Stocker that used his horn ring to actuate the stall and lock-up in the convertor.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Ohhhhhh, nevermind don,t race on my computer i'm at the track. Just tried to help a racer out.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Terrific idea but I'll believe it when I see it in writing from the NHRA...........and yes, I'm old enough to remember these transmissions .

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Ohhhhhh lighten up, I have had a drag race car a lot longer than I have had a computer LOL...

Is there a symbol for tongue in cheek?

If NHRA will let Jack run a three speed more power to him.

Bill Lamb

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

discussed at length with travis / lang
NO :(

also discussed 3 speed overdriven trans... which is a 6 speed
NO :(

also discussed why im the ONLY 283 not allowed the 459 intake
NO :(

they dont like me... im a slow dinosaur they are trying to make me extinct :(

captain jack

and thanks for your votes guys

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

They bought in super stock before the three speed rule might check with Danny

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

The first guy to threaten to sue (discrimination) NHRA over this issue will likely be the first one to gain legal status for this deal.

Voluminous, legitimate, technical info exists to validate claims that it's REALLY a 3 speed. I don't believe NHRA would want to go to court to fight it (especially,since it can't make them any money!)

Remember the Ford C4/FE motor bellhousing flap?

'nuff sed.

Never saw a Dynaflow with a LOCKUP converter.... but, that is probably just my swiss cheese brain at work,

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

the Dynaflo of which I refering wasn't a mechanical clutch I just mean't that the turbine fins returned back to the regular position and worked like a normal convertor. The Turboglide was listed as a option for $50 over the powerglides.Although the Turboglide enternal workings are more similar to the Jetaway hydramatics, or 4speed Hydros using planetaries instead of bands and clutches, it still was 3 speed auto trans. If you put the shift lever in the GR posistion and left the starting line it would launch just like those old Hydros and Pontiac Jetaways for the first 10 feet HANG ON but once you moved the lever to Drive you had no control over the UPSHIFT. .....NHRA allowed those C-6 with 904 internals and C-4 replacement of cast iron cruisamatics, and Mopars used the same 904 stuff in the 727, If they disallow the GM guys the use of the Jeep 904 with the chevy bellhousing, because of the corporate rule all these years, why now with the Superstock Rule on 3 Speeds can they still discriminate a actual documented reality trans even for such a small number of guys who would really benefit from this ..IT MAKE NO SENSE, but common sense isn't THE NHRA'S strong point. You know its who you know not what is correct.Mopar and Ford has always paid to get the advantage over GM...the Shelby Mustangs were just allowed ,nobody ever had that combination running before NOW ITS LEGAL SURPRISE Ford went into there archive and low an behold poof SPECIFICATION on the lost arc. Now we proof that a TURBOGLIDE was available with documentation everywhere and its NOT LEGAL, come on Danny, Travis, Lang or whoever GET of the dime.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

I'm sure, if it were possible to put 904 guts in a Turboglide case and someone marketed them for $5,000, it would be legal.

As mentioned previously the 57 SB cars had the Turboglide available. I've seen plenty of them.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Capt. Jack,
You will Never be Extinct, your like an Old Truck Driver when you think your too Old You Just Get A New Peter/built Alan

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

'66, '67, '68 325 hp 396 Chevelle's had either a P/G or a Turbo 400 trans.
NHRA does not recognize any of those cars with a 2 speed auto transmission even though there were many of them out there. Len Imbrogno told me himself that he had one.
I don't know why anyone would want to use a Powerglide if he could use a 3 speed, but thats the way NHRA sees it! I think any car that was available with a Turboglide should be allowed to use a 3 speed automatic transmission.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

. I know from 53 (!) years of experience that NHRA avoids, like the plague, attempting to justify their position on something like this issue, but if Travis,,who sometimes posts here, could explain the NHRA's reason for disallowing Turboglides as 3-speeds, it could save a kot of people a lot of wrangling.

The planetaryy gearsets in the Turboglide have ratios that closely approximate first and second gears in a TH350/400. Third is a direct drive, like the conventional Turbohydros,

That adds up to three, in my book.

Thanks, Mr. Cim., for your input. The 396 Chevelle story is very interesting.... and, telling

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Turboglide cranks had a slightly larger pilot hole in the crank then all the others. When I was younger I built a 57 283 up that had a turboglide crank and a stock pilot bearing was too small for the hole in the crank. I had to have one made that fit. The crank later broke in half at 7000, maybe a weaker crank maybe just blew up.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

The chevelles info I believe is not correct. I can say fairly for certain the 396 engine option required the turbo 400 option for an auto trans in 67 and 68. Not sure about the 66. I worked at a GM dealership in the late 60's and had access to the order forms. From my recolection a powerglide was not an option in 67 or 68 in the 396 chevelles.
My 2 Cents

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Powerglide were legal for 396 Chevelles in 1966, Danny Gracia had a station wagon with one in it

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Bill

Man, I'm glad to see you back out here - hope you're on the mend.

So what is the big deal with not allowing the intechange of these two transmissions? I'll spare everyone the list (partial list because none of us know the whole list) of bogus stuff they have accepted. This doesn't seem like a big stretch.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Thanks for the kind wods, Bruce!!!! It's nice to be back.

I feel there's nothhing remotely "bogus" about this deall. It has simply been overlooked for too many years. Everyone seems to agree that it's a 3 speed transmission except the NHRA Tech Dept.
Maybe it's because you can't feel the gear changes, I dunno...
speed (Metric 200?) although they could have come with a 3 speed, originally (Turboglide.)

Time to rectify
To me, the "big deal" is that, for example, you can legally use a 904 behind a 340 (a never-b uilt OEM application), while the Turboglide (3 speed) claim for cars like- Cap' Jackk's 283 wagon are denied the opportuunity to swap to an alternative 3 this long-standing injustice,,,

Justt my 2 cents....

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Thanks for the kind wods, Bruce!!!! It's nice to be back.

I feel there's nothhing remotely "bogus" about this deall. It has simply been overlooked for too many years. Everyone seems to agree that it's a 3 speed transmission except the NHRA Tech Dept.
Maybe it's because you can't feel the gear changes, I dunno...
Not allowed a swap to a 3 speed (Metric 200?) although they could have come with a 3 speed, originally (Turboglide.)


To me, the "big deal" is, for example, 340 Dusters are allowed a 904 (a never-b uilt OEM application), while the Turboglide (3 speed) claim for cars like- Cap' Jackk's 283 wagon are denied the opportuunity to swap to an alternative 3 speed. Time to rectify this long-standing injustice,,,

Justt my 2 cents....

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Bill,

Bogus is the word for many of the parts that have been accepted. My point is this transmission swap deserves serious consideration by nhra.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Well, if I'm wrong about this I'm blind. I personally have seen and rode in all three year models that I mentioned in my earlier post with Powerglides behind a 396-325 in a Chevelle. I have 2 buddies that bought new SS Chevelles in '68, one of them was a Turbo, the other was a Powerglide. Oh, and I also worked at a GM dealership in the late 60's.

Jim Cimarolli

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Am i missing something.Did not nhra pass 3 speeds in all powerglide cars or was that just for super stock.
thanks....clarence
I also had a friend that had a p/g in a 396 66 chevell.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Nothing against this deal but why are we continous trying to change stuff thats been one way almost "forever" or atleast a very long time?Individuals gain but the class loose in my opinion,it's the HP factors that should make it work,not "new found" parts.(AHFS is another subject) I guess this should be another thread (or poll) too.

p.s. if this deal and others like it comes along..should they have unmolested HP in those cases that has been changed since they never was run like that in NHRA before?

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Good morning, PA,

This issue is a little different than most, I believe. There are a few issues that make it so. In the first place, this is not a question of something being new. It's actually something that's so old that it's laughable. i remember that transmission well. I even had one in a '58 Nomad for a while. It was so bad in terms of performance and durability that a cast iron 'Glide was a step up. I suspect that the reason it's not in the Guide is because it was so bad that it was never considered and would never have been considered had not a combination of other liberalized rules opened the back door to making it an advantage. When the rule allowing the substitution of ANY OEM 3-speed transmission to replace an ORIGINAL 3-speed was slipped into the books (probably on the grounds of expediency and preserving the creases in the clothing of diligent tech inspectors) this is one issue that became a "no-brainer." An unintended "no-brainer" but one nevertheless.

In the second place, I believe that you can count the number of 1960 and '61 Chevies competing in Stock Eliminator today on one finger. That could possibly be an exaggeration but I don't think so. Even if the substitution of a modern 3-speed transmission in those models were to be authorized, I doubt that there will be a mad rush on the part of racers to construct a herd of Brookwood wagons or Impala hardtops. It wouldn't put them into the position of dominating Stock Eliminator. In fact, they wouldn't likely dominate the classes in which they run. For example, U/SA is already populated with cars that have more "legislated advantages" than could ever be dreamed up for the Brookwood.

In the third place, if it did become a huge advantage, what could it possibly harm? What if Jack McCarthy qualified in the Top Ten at Indy? Would the earth stop turning? If he insisted on flaunting his newly found dominance excessively, would he not be subject to the terms of AHFS? Would not the "system" correct itself in the same way that it has corrected combinations like the LS1, the 6-Pack GTX, and the aluminum-headed big blocks?

At the end of the day (and that will come sooner rather than later for a lot of us old donkeys), this is not much more than a fun topic because allowing the lone 1960 Chevrolet Brookwood wagon to benefit from the same rules as a 1967 Camaro that now has a Metric 200 in place of it's power-sucking T400 is simply the right thing to do. It isn't a back-door, politically inspired, 40 year after-the-fact, file cabinet discovery. It's the result of a rule that was changed by the Organization fifteen years ago for whatever reason, that opened a door that no one anticipated, and is being stonewalled, apparently because racers introduced it instead of the Organization.

I think it's cool!

Highest regards,

c

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Chuck...i was not against this specific deal...as you say it's a nobrainer..just that stuff/specs gets changed after a looooong time...i think it feeds the "i want some too" mentality.. should probably just put what i said in another thread! CYA Chuck!!

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

geez guys... my heartfelt thanks for all of the support... and i will petition NHRA again for the three speed... hell i might just show up at indy with one :) ... that statement ought to get me a good tech inspection !

i admit the last time it was discussed (late 1980's) i was told it was like the olds/buick hydramatic with the switch pitch convertor... but mr holder assures me it has two gearsets plus direct drive so i agree it is a no-brainer... however we are dealing with NHRA tech which also fits the no-brains description.

anyway rest assured a letter to garcia/lang/wesley and travis is in the email today...

captain jack

p.s. chuck 1. - technically i claim "Kingswood 9 pass" 2. some guy is building a 60- vette... so that would make two 3. - your right i still would be chasing Bob Shaw's killer fuelie caddy

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Jack,

Have you checked any of the old Chilton Books for verification of this transmission?

Many years ago, I worked in a little two bay shop. We had some of those old Chilton books, and my memory may be failing me, but I seem to remember seeing one of those old Dinosaurs in one of those books. A big old dark green book with lots of greasy finger prints.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

i have a 1960 motors manual...
the author of this post has documents...

i sent email asking for immediate approval :)

jack

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

This link will take you to a complete overhaul manual and also description of the operation of the transmission.

http://cogpro.com/chapters/B-Turboglide/index.htm

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Logged in as bill dedman Title:


Message:
Chuck,
You said it all, and eloquently, as usual. Wish I had your way with words....

Cap'n Jack,
Glad to hear you're up to fighting the good fight.... That wagon is gonna LOVE that deep 1st gear!!!!!!!!!!!

GOOD LUCK!

Bill

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Jack, I stand corrected! I should have done my homework on the Kingswood/Brookwood name plate rather than relying on an increasingly shaky memory. By the way, I've owned a bunch of early Vettes, some with PG transmissions and I'm pretty sure that the TG trans was never offered in that platform. Therefore, we'll still be able to count the cars on one finger. Now, let's decide which finger it will be.....

PA, I wasn't leaning on you. We go back waaay to far for that, right?

Bill D., I sent you a PM last night. Did it get through?

c

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Chuck,
Please email me at Billdedman@hotmail.com.

I don't know how to access PM's in this forum, sadly... (So old to be so ignorant...)

Sorry for the inconvenience...
Bill

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

well it has been a week since i sent :

Travis Miller / Wesley Roberson / Bruce Bachelder / Bob Lang / Danny Gracia the Email requesting an immediate rules interpretation regarding this issue... still not a single reply

whats up guys cat got your tongue ?

is this a DARE to show up at indy with one ??

captain jack

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Show up and tell them that you just bought the car and the seller said it was legal, LOL.

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Jack,

Start calling the tech guys!!!!!!!!

I've got a couple of spare 200's. You want me to bring one to BG? Hell, I think I have a converter that might work. How much does the wagon have to weigh?

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

I can't believe you finally said that !! :-)

Re: Powerglide Out Turbo 200 In Jack "the Captain" McCarthy
 

Kelley,
What's YOUR excuse?????????????