65 Biscayne
 

I just acquired a 65 Biscayne with a 12 bolt/4 spd., and a complete 1965 396/375 hp motor not original for the car. Car is originally 230 6 cyl. 3 speed floor shift.
My question is....what class/classes would it fit into with the 396? Is it feaseable? or should I go the 283/327 route? I have a 1966 283-2 barrel motor also.
I'm a bracket racer, and am about thinking about trying something different. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Go to the NHRA website, under the "rules" tab at the top of the page, you'll get a drop down menu that shows the "Stock Car Classification Guide". The guide will give you the basic information about the car and the engines/transmissions available, the curb weights, the HP factors, and what the class factor is. The classes start with AA, which is 7.5 pounds per HP, and each lower class is 0.5 pounds more per HP, so A is 8.0, B is 8.5, and so on. At 9.11 pounds per HP, the Stock Car Classification Guide shows the 1965 Biscayne 396/425 (the 1965 396 is factory rated at 425, not 375, but NHRA rates it at 385HP with iron heads) to be a natural C/S car. It cannot run the 396 with an automatic transmission, by the way. It could possibly run B/S or D/S with the 396 as well. It's a fairly heavy car, I'm not sure how quick it would be, or how hard on parts. But the thing would be way cool.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Thanks Alan, I have alot of researching ahead of me. The car is in a million pieces, but new quarters, floors are already done. When I first saw it, I thought this would make a pretty cool stocker with the B/B 396 and 4 speed, but hard on parts will probably be an understatement. I also have 65-66 396 325 h.p heads that have been in my basement for years that are from my first car back in 1985; 66 SS 396/325 Impala H/T. The car was such a basket case, the motor was all that was worth keeping at the time.
Knowing what you know...what would you do with it?

Thanks Again...Bob Sanders

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Another Joisey boy ran that combo with a great deal of success many, many years ago. Does anybody know if Bill Izikowski(Spelling?) is still around?

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Don,
Bill's car was a 66 427/425 out of Duffy's in Red Bank. Very successfull. Runner up to Bortman for World Champ. Last I heard he was a service manager for a Chevy dealer somewhere in "Joisey".

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Back in the mid 70`s, a friend ran a 65 Biscayne in SS/KA with some sucess, using a 325HP 396 Turbo 400. Later he put the running gear in a 65 Impala wagon for SS/OA, which ran really well. I don`t know how well this combo would work in Stock however. I believe that the 65 396 "Big Car" was the first to use the Turbo 400 trans.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

i ran a 65 impala wagon 396-325 in k/s and k/sa YEARS ago...before aftermarket parts were ok... went through a ton of T-10's and eventually broke lower control arm mounts off of frame (had to be factory then)

but it was fun !!

fits o & p /.sa with 283... cheap date, and i have a few parts :)

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Changed my mind already.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

The 325 horse puts me at a natural I/SA it appears. I have a couple questions that are not clear.
NHRA has a Holley carb# issued, and also transmission choice is not clear. My 66 396/325 had a th400 and Quadrajet. Is the Holley a replacent for the 4GC Rochester? and they did not put a Powerglide behind the 396 big cars did they?

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Knowing what I know (and maybe that ain't much) I'd probably see if I couldn't get it light enough to go B/S.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

I guess I could explain myself since I gave an answer. The way I'm figuring it, the 396-375 is a well developed combination. You have most of the parts. You could go to Arnold Greene, Mike Heintz, Darrell Wikle, Adger Smith, or Gary McGlasson with the parts you have and come away with a competitive engine. If you get to B weight, it shouldn't be any harder on parts than a B/S Camaro, and Kevin Helms does real well with one. Yes, the 396-375 is on the expensive side, but probably NOT more expensive than a 396-325. And likely to be easier to make more competitive.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

TimQuigley ran a killer 66 Biscayne in O and P stick with a 283 4 speed. It was a great car! The 250 hp 327 looks good too. Go for the Jerico!

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...ndyquigley.jpg

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

I was friends with Bill Izykowski when he raced a 427/425 Biscayne in B/S on 7" slicks. I sat in the passenger seat while we did burnouts one day for fun! Low 12's at the time. The long wheelbase helped as the cars were often a little sideways leaving the line. The shorter wheelbase cars like a Chevy II were even more of a handfull with a 396 on those same 7" tires.....

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Thanks for all the replies. The stick would certainly be a blast, and probably save some $$$ when compared to building a lightweight th400 and converter set-ups. You really think I could get it down to B weight? Shipping weight is 3400# and change.
Nice picture....same color as my old 66 SS. Anybody figure out what the Holley carb# is all about fot the 325 combo? I only remember Holley on 425 h.p stuff.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Getting to the bottom of B, 3442#, would be VERY tough, but might be possible, though pretty expensive. Everything would have to be light, chrome moly cage, aftermarket brakes, small fuel cell, ultra light wheels , etc. You'd need to weigh it like it is first, to see where you're at. If you set the engine and a transmission in the car and take it to the scales as it sits, and it weighs 3800#, then I doubt you could get it down. It's been forever since I weighed one of the big cars.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

The 65 Bicayne/Belair, is competitive with 282-220 HP, in O/SA, or P/SA, (O/S, or P/S), but that's about it. Kevin Fogerty Sr., campaigns an Impala with a 283-220 HP, in P/SA, and Q/SA,and is very successfull. If you wish to restore it, as a 396/325 HP, I have a pair of correct casting cylinder heads in excellent condition. They also make a nice Nostalgia Superstock car. Good luck.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

I will take that advice and have it weighed with the rally wheels that are on it now, and keep my fingers crossed; I'll post the results in a couple weeks. I already figured on lightweight front brakes and Bogarts or something like that.
Thanks for the offer Mr Warehime, I already have a set of 702's for the 325/396. I may need an intake though. The intake that comes with it is the Aluminum GM intake. What year did they start that intake?
I figured if it's not feaseable to make a competitive big block stocker, N/SS would be an option, as well as the new 12.0 index class that's become real popular lately. Atco gets on average 30 cars for that class.
You have all been a great help...Thanks Again!

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

forget the holley... the qjet is bigger / faster... but if you insist on it i have the holley and intake

good luck
captain

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Thanks for the info. What size was the Holley? 780?
Is that signature a little ribbing to my screen name, or have you always been The Captain?
I will probably need both the intake and carb, and any other help you may be willing to offer.
This is all new territory to me, but will probably be alot of fun.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

The Holley on the 396-325hp is a 600cfm carb. The Qjet is by far the best choice of the two carb-manifold choices. The intake is cast iron for both the Holley and Rochester carbs.

The '65 big car is not available with a 396-375hp engine. That was a Chevelle only combination. The full sized car and the Corvette were available with the 396-425hp engine that shares much the same specifications as the later 396-375hp engines, including the NHRA power rating. The '65 engine has slightly less camshaft lift (497/503 vs 520/520) than the later engines, so that must be taken into consideration.

You need to go here:
http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/engin...ts/CHEV-65.rtf

Get familiar with all those specifications because that will answer a lot of your questions.

You will not be able to get the car to 3442 lbs with an iron head big block and a driver.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

If Dwight says you can't make minimum weight with an iron head engine, I'd bet he is correct. Now, the flip side to that is that you can use the aluminum replacement head (fund the purchase by selling your iron heads, you can likely get twice the cost of a set of aluminum castings for your iron castings), take the 10HP penalty (85# in B/S) and lose about 60# off the front. The question will be whether the slight loss of lift as compared to the later cam will hurt much.

The truth is, with the rules as they stand, you'd honestly be a LOT better off to sell the whole 396/375 4 speed combo that you have to a person who needs it to restore a car. Then go buy an old 2 bolt main 454 block, a steel 396/427 crank, a set of 401 heads, and a 359 intake. Is that in line with the original intent and spirit of Stock Eliminator? No, not by a long shot. However, I've seen the heads go for near enough to buy a new set of complete 401 heads from a top name builder. Think what a complete engine with matching casting dates would bring! You could easily get near half way to the price of a complete engine from a good builder ($12K to $18K depending on who builds it and how much you want).

Now, I'm sure there'll be someone along shortly to cry out "sacrilege", "blasphemer", or "he's the anti-Christ". But you asked how to best build your car, and not how to build an old school car. It is not at all uncommon to see an engine/transmission combo like yours, provided the casting numbers and date codes match up, bring well over $10K from a restoration buyer who needs what you have. And you're actually doing the restoration crowd, and maybe the rest of us too, a favor by NOT building a race engine out of parts that could be used to restore a car to close to original. As well as helping your budget and getting the most competitive piece for your money.

In the end, it is your car, they are your parts, and it is your money, make yourself happy. Good luck to you.

Re: 65 Biscayne
 

Dwight/Alan...Thanks again. I will have a busy weekend spreading it all out on the floor and checking #'s.
If I can swing the 425 with the aftermarket alloy heads, wow what a fun car that would make. Almost bulletproof too. I'm going to build it somehow, even if it ends up as a small block combo and stash away the 396 stuff for another day. If the dates match, and it's worth that kind of $$$$, It would make sense to sell it.