Stock seat clarification please
 

I don't think I have ever seen this in a stocker---but very common in a super stocker---are "Kirkey" type lightweight racing seats legal in stock eliminator......any suggestions on a lighter seat ??? PLEASE NO DIET OR WEIGHT WATCHING SUGGESTIONS !!!!

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

In Stock the seats must be same as year/model claimed. That's one of the things that some of us believe needs to be changed for the sake do safety. No way a 30 year old seat with no lateral support is as safe as a proper racing seat.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

UPHOLSTERY
Must have full factory-type upholstery for year/model claimed,
including factory-type floor mats or carpet, door panels and
headliner, and front and rear seats. Interior gutting prohibited.
Driver’s seat tracks may be bolted down. Sun visors optional. Rear
seat may be removed when roll bar is installed; area must be
carpeted or upholstered equivalent to factory specifications (no
bare paneling). See General Regulations 6:2.


so no

and you should read this too.

HOW TO USE THIS RULEBOOK
The NHRA Rulebook provides guidelines and minimum standards
for the construction and operation of vehicles used in NHRA
Championship Drag Racing and at member-track events. It is the
responsibility of the participant to be familiar with the contents of
this Rulebook and to comply with its requirements. Do not leave it
up to track officials to catch all potential rule compliance problems.
That responsibility rests first and foremost with YOU — the
participant.
Additional safety equipment or safety-enhancing equipment is
always permitted and the levels of safety equipment stated in
this Rulebook are minimum prescribed levels for a particular
type of competition and do not prohibit the individual racer
from using additional safety equipment. Participants are
encouraged to investigate the utility of additional safety
devices for your type of competition. In disputed cases,
whether an item of equipment is safety-enhancing or
performance-enhancing will be determined by NHRA in
NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion.
On the other hand, as to performance equipment, it is the
general rule that unless optional performance equipment or
performance-related modification is specifically permitted by
this Rulebook, it is prohibited. All model, engine, or equipment
changes or modifications not specifically addressed in this
Rulebook must be submitted in writing to NHRA for
consideration prior to competition. Approval will be granted or
denied in NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion. The applicant
will be notified of approval or rejection in writing from NHRA
headquarters in Glendora, Calif.
Additionally, any type of vehicle not specifically defined in this
Rulebook, other official NHRA Rulebooks, or other official
NHRA supplements is prohibited for use in competition or
exhibition.
Throughout this Rulebook, a number of references are made
for particular products to meet certain specifications (i.e., SFI
Specs, Snell, DOT, etc.). It is important to realize that these
products are manufactured to meet certain specifications, and
upon completion, the manufacturer labels the product as
meeting that spec. Therefore, except as outlined under SFI
requirements, any change to the product voids that
certification.
Under no circumstances may any certified product be modified,
altered, or in any way vary from the “as manufactured”
condition. Such a practice is in violation of the SFI, Snell, DOT,
etc. program, voids such certification and therefore will not be
accepted by NHRA.
xv
xvi
NOTICE: It is the responsibility of the participant,
not NHRA or any track, to ensure that all safety
equipment is approved and is correctly installed,
worn, maintained, and used.
Unauthorized cars, parts, and/or equipment will not be
considered approved by reason of having passed through
technical inspection at any time, or any number of times.
Moreover, having passed through technical inspection at any
time, or any number of times, is not a defense to a violation
found on further inspection.
The Rulebook divides these guidelines and standards for the
construction and operation of vehicles into two basic groups:
Requirements & Specifications: The minimum standards that
differentiate the various categories of competition vehicles.
General Regulations: Guidelines that concentrate on specific
areas of construction or operation of a vehicle. Many guidelines
in the Rulebook are applicable to many or all categories.
General Regulations provides a central location for the
description of those guidelines.
Both Requirements & Specifications and General Regulations are
further divided into 11 subcategories: 1-Engine, 2-Drivetrain,
3-Brakes & Suspension, 4-Frame, 5-Tires & Wheels, 6-Interior,
7-Body, 8-Electrical, 9-Support Group, 10-Driver, and 11-General.
In many instances, the Requirements & Specifications for a
particular class will reference a General Regulations section. For
example, in Section 4A, Liquid Overflow, the paragraph ends with
the sentence “See General Regulations 1:7.” By turning to General
Regulations, Section 1:7, Liquid Overflow, you will find additional
information about mounting the overflow container and routing the
overflow hoses. Because this information applies to virtually all
categories, it would be repetitive to reprint it in each individual
category’s Requirements & Specifications. It is, nonetheless,
important information to the competitor and/or builder. (An index of
General Regulations is at the beginning of that section.)
Conversely, General Regulations may refer the reader back to
Requirements & Specifications by stating “See Class
Requirements.” The majority of minimum standards found in the
Rulebook are based on the performance level of the vehicle.
However, certain categories classed by cubic inch to weight or
horsepower to weight have additional rules and regulations that
limit the parameters within which a particular performance level
may be reached. For example, Section 7:4, Firewall, General
Regulations describes the minimum standards for construction of a
firewall or bulkhead separating the driver from the engine
compartment. Section 7:4 also states “See Class Requirements.” If
you were considering building a Stock vehicle and turn to Firewall in
the Stock section, the Rulebook states “Alterations prohibited
unless expressly permitted in this section. Firewall coverings
prohibited.” This, then, negates construction of a minimum firewall
by requiring the original, unaltered OEM firewall. Before deciding
which standards are applicable to your vehicle, Class Requirements
AND General Regulations must both be considered.
Another key to understanding the NHRA Rulebook is
that certain classes “build” from another.
When the Rulebook states “Requirements and Specifications for
… are the same as those for ...” you must read the referenced
section first. For example, before reading Section 4B, Advanced
E.T., one must first understand Section 4A, Super Pro, Pro,
Sportsman. Before reading the Super Gas section, one must first
read the Super Street section. If a particular requirement is
mentioned in the Super Street section and not in the Super Gas
section, then the requirement is the same in both categories.
If after reading the Rulebook you still have questions, consult page xiv for
hours and phone numbers where tech personnel may be reached. These
phone lines are extremely busy, so prepare your questions in advance.
Remember, it is your responsibility to follow the
standards in this Rulebook that pertain to your vehicle.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

There have been a good number of threads here on Class Racer about what's a legal seat in Stock eliminator. Right now, according to the rules, the only seat legal is the one that the vehicle came with, or an optional seat(s) available as an sport interior upgrade. Other than a possible weight advantage, an aftermarket seat would obviously be much safer, but so far the rules haven't been changed to better protect us! Be thankful the Camaro came with bucket seats and not a non-adjustable bench seat!

Lew

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

There you have it sports fans! The REAL reason for wanting aftermarket seats in Stock.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

BS, the REAL reason is safety....I've been around a fair number of road courses as well as driven some pretty fast door cars and dragsters....a racing seat provides a real sense of security. Granted, a secondary consideration is the fact you could theoretically move a bit more weight to the rear but if you can't hook a stocker without resorting to that then you've got other issues in play.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Where does Super Stock get the green flag on kirkey type seats ???

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

UPHOLSTERY
Must have full factory-type upholstery, including factory-type floor
mats or carpet, door panels, and headliner, and front and rear
seats. Interior gutting prohibited. Driver’s seat tracks may be bolted
down. Sun visors optional. Rear seat may be removed when roll bar
or roll cage is installed; area must be carpeted or upholstered
equivalent to factory specifications (no bare paneling). Full-size
aftermarket front seats permitted; must be upholstered and
supported. See General Regulations 6:2.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Search for "stock seats" and threads like this one will pop up:
http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...ht=stock+seats

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Stock appearing racing seats should be a no brainer! The problem is changing the minds of the people with no brains. Two year harnesses but no safety seats? Really? This *IS* a safety issue! Jim

.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Is having to run factory seats really such a safety concern for some people? I always thought that the 5 point safety harness was what kept the driver in position, not the seat. Silly me.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

what kind of seats are in the new factory race cars?

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

you can slide around on a old bench seat and whack your side on that big old bar that runs down the left side of your car,it would be nice have my ***** in a tight seat when/if thing go wrong.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

You sir are a perfect example of the type of person I was speaking of in my previous post! Thanks for your post. You actually would prefer your 26 year old stock seat made for comfort over a racing seat made for crash survival? I bet you don't think you really need a helmet either. To bad they won't let you wear that chrome WW2 German motorcycle helmet you think looks so cool! Jim


.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Secondary impacts (i.e. rollovers) are a valid concern if the stock seat has become broken beneath you. I'd be glad to carry more weight if I could mount a good racing seat.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I have the feeling that a lot of people here won't be satisfied until they turn Stock Eliminator into an 8-10 second No Box bracket.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I dont think slamming Rory was nice when he asked a simple question that you did not even answer his question. I doudt if you know Rory being about 3000 miles between Florida and BC Canada. So here is the answer. If in a crash your car backs into a wall the seat belts do not hold you the seat does if the seat breaks and folds up you will end up in the back of your flopping around inside your car. Some body on this forum had this happen to them cant remember who, was it Mr Beard? The person that this happen to them please chime in, it should help clear up why people want after market seats.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I agree with you on square lobe cams, roller rockers, etc. but anything that enhances safety just makes sense.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

ask woodro about that

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I think Rusty needs to lay off the ribs and brunswick stew.......

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I guess my factory 26 year old seats were good enough to pass whatever crash impact standards were in place when my Mustang was new. The seat frames and tracks are all steel, and held together with fairly sturdy brackets and fasteners. I do have "race" seats in my bracket car, somehow I doubt that the 4 threaded mounting inserts molded into the seat base are as strong as the factory stuff. I think the "race" seat agenda for most people is for weight savings, at least in my opinion. Personally, I wish Stock was more like it was at least 15 or 20 more years ago, no lightweight race brakes, wheelie bars, aftermarket aluminum heads, etc. I was one of the (few?) who was actually hoping NHRA was going to be pulling pistons and rods, and weighing them, as well pouring heads for runner volume, funny how so many people claimed to have "untouched, origional factory castings that were bigger than the SUPER STOCK specs'!
I know that I am not alone in thinking that Stock Eliminator has gone way, way, too leinient will the rules and the "enhanchments" some vocal racers have been claiming they need to be competetive with the "Brand X, Y, Z" cars. I never met "Farmer" Dismuke, but he certainly sounds like the kind of guy that strived to keep the STOCK in Stock Eliminator. Too bad his hard line on the rulebook has been so erroded over the years. Sometimes It seems that Stock is headed to become nothing more than a small tire bracket class, without a hood scoop. I don`t think thats a good thing, do you? Also, since you are so worried about crashing, I`m sure that all your bumper hardware, door guard beams, and undercarrige bracing still intact, right?

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

The SCCA allows ANY race car even low speed showroom stock autocross classes to use a racing seat.............................of course they actually have their racers interests at heart too.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Percentage wise, out of all the drag strip passes in a year, how many Stock Eliminator cars actually crash? You can't compare road racing or any other motorsport so that argument for light weight seats doesn't wash. I agree with Rory in that all the allowed "safety" and other improvements have long ago taken "Stock" out of Stock Class racing. I still thnk there is something wrong with a system that lets a Stock car cross over into Super Stock and still be a legitimate qualifier. Seems like one and the same car to me.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

That was brutal Kenny......I ask for it......!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

With all the new cars going even faster, in lighter classes, I will guarantee the rate of on track incidents is going to go up sharply.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

and the comparison to SCCA was not to road racing but to Solo II autocross. That's one car on the track, in a set of cones, usually not exceeding 100mph. The see it fit to allow race seats because if they did not, and someone were injured in a method that could have been prevented, they feel that they would be responsible for it.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I missed the subject on the post last year......thanks for the reply.........I don't know how they let super stock have it and not stock but I will not have a heart attack over it.....the worse thing to ever happen to stock and super stock racing was when they let head cheaters push them into the ported head rule in super stock.......it is happening now in stock all over again so we might as well join them if you can't beat them. It is only money.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

It only take one crash and a good seat could be the difference in saving a life.Some of those older cars are going 130mph + and old seat are not made for those speeds.

ps I'm not crying wolf.better safe than dead

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

exactly

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Right on Dartman....and with time to replace my helmet I got the SA rated full face version. Seeing Bill Riddle's demon ( Ken Etter's crash at Fontana) in person was the key reason for taking all the variables out that I can. Folks who assume a G car (and slower) can't get in a horrific accident need to review that one.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Verifiable data? They said the same thing when the Hemi Cudas and Darts started running over 130. History has proven otherwise.

History also suggests that when the rules start allowing modifications to systems that the auto manufacturers spent millions to engineer to provide safe cars, people screw up and cause more accidents than the equipment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safe racing. Just don't "OSHA" yourself into making claims that are based on rationalized fear-based emotions rather than on the real world. How many people have been killed by three-year old seat belts? How many five-year old scattershields have failed?

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

If the belts were left out in the sun all the time, with rain and salt air, they would eventually lose strength. Yet, the racing organizations with the kind of cars that are left out don't seem to require frequent replacements. As for bell housings, I guess metal evaporates off of them so fast that they will fail after 5 years, lol.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

A racing seat would be better thats common sense and it is no advantage in performance, NHRA should allow them if you want them, only the driver seat, if you dont Dont. Did they teach common sense in school?

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Guys, I've modified plenty of stock seats to where they would still pass tech.
I've taken every other spring out of back seats to lighten then , and I've cut a slot into a driver's high back bucket for a Y- harness to pass through, then padded the slot and had it re-upholstered.
I've welded the adjusters and even the hinge up and I've braced up the seat brackets under the floor board.
I never had a problem needing to get anything approved...Never asked.

So, I would say;
A ,
If you're afraid to race with stock seat, modify it yourself. Of course, they might end up HEAVIER.
Or B,
Get yourself a slower car. You don't see Jody Lang on here complaining about his seats, do you?

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

I sure hope they don't end up requiring aftermarket seats...I just spent $1300 getting my factory seat re-upholstered !!!

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Dang it guys, nobody is complaining about stock seats or suggesting that NHRA would do anything more than allow aftermarket seats (and I'm not talking $69 buckets with four inserts barely stuck in the bottom). Some of us are just saying it would be a safety improvement if done correctly and it should be optional....just like many other provisions...you don't have to have a full cage in lower classes but you sure see them and nobody moans how it's undermining the "spirit of stock". You've all seen some of the bars running way inside the A pillar...look stock? Nope.

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Not trying to be a *****,but were does it say you can modify your sit.Driver’s seat tracks may be bolted down but you can't do any other modification or it would say you can,so you are not allowed the pull spring to make it lighter


UPHOLSTERY
Must have full factory-type upholstery for year/model claimed,
including factory-type floor mats or carpet, door panels and
headliner, and front and rear seats. Interior gutting prohibited.
Driver’s seat tracks may be bolted down. Sun visors optional. Rear
seat may be removed when roll bar is installed; area must be
carpeted or upholstered equivalent to factory specifications (no
bare paneling). See General Regulations 6:2.

just because it doesn't say you can't doesn't mean you can.


but maybe under this for safety I'm not sure

HOW TO USE THIS RULEBOOK
The NHRA Rulebook provides guidelines and minimum standards
for the construction and operation of vehicles used in NHRA
Championship Drag Racing and at member-track events. It is the
responsibility of the participant to be familiar with the contents of
this Rulebook and to comply with its requirements. Do not leave it
up to track officials to catch all potential rule compliance problems.
That responsibility rests first and foremost with YOU — the
participant.
Additional safety equipment or safety-enhancing equipment is
always permitted and the levels of safety equipment stated in
this Rulebook are minimum prescribed levels for a particular
type of competition and do not prohibit the individual racer
from using additional safety equipment. Participants are
encouraged to investigate the utility of additional safety
devices for your type of competition. In disputed cases,
whether an item of equipment is safety-enhancing or
performance-enhancing will be determined by NHRA in
NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion.
On the other hand, as to performance equipment, it is the
general rule that unless optional performance equipment or
performance-related modification is specifically permitted by
this Rulebook, it is prohibited. All model, engine, or equipment
changes or modifications not specifically addressed in this
Rulebook must be submitted in writing to NHRA for
consideration prior to competition. Approval will be granted or
denied in NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion. The applicant
will be notified of approval or rejection in writing from NHRA
headquarters in Glendora, Calif.


BTW I've done the same mods as you to my own seat.even with the springs

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

What he said!

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

Additional safety equipment or safety-enhancing equipment is
always permitted and the levels of safety equipment stated in
this Rulebook are minimum prescribed levels for a particular
type of competition and do not prohibit the individual racer
from using additional safety equipment. Participants are
encouraged to investigate the utility of additional safety
devices for your type of competition. In disputed cases,
whether an item of equipment is safety-enhancing or
performance-enhancing will be determined by NHRA in
NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion.

The problem with a big number of racers is they have never opened the rule book up and would rather jump on the internet for advice than make a decision on their own. If one were to read the rule above, you would understand what Mark Y. is suggesting is allowable. He is, however, taking a chance that one NHRA tech official may not agree with the safety modifications and could be subject to discipline. However, I'd bet there aint ONE tech official that would do so.
The bottom line: "safety" is bantered about as code word for "performance".

Re: Stock seat clarification please
 

And the "new cars" which are most likely to go real fast... do have proper seats. You wont see a bench seat in my Drag Pak.

You will see a Viper seat in mine, and aftermarket viper type seats in later Drap Paks.

And as I read it, the rule says "Stock Appearing" seat.

But, get ready for this, I absolutely do agree that the older cars need better seats for safetly..

David
The New Hemi Guy