Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Man. I never realized this would get so much ink. My point is that aftermarket seats that are stock appearing or close to stock appearing should be an option. Contrary to what Evan said these seats that I've seen appear to be much better than the 30- 40 year old seats we are using. They have welded tubular steel frames, the seat tracks have locks on both sides and do not have the slop in the mechanizims that old seats do. I confess that I bought the procar seats for Andrew's car when I was building it. Since then I put my 70 seats in Andrew's car and found some 71 seats for my car. At the time the rule book said stock type seats. I took that to mean a seat that looked similar to a stock seat and operated like a stock seat. As most of you know after a thread on here discussing this subject appeared the rule book was changed to indicate the correct year and model seats.

On another thread on this forum one of the guys who have built a bunch of the new challengers say that they have aftermarket seats. I guess that's okay since they are aftermarket cars. I think the weight difference is not a big thing. If you build your car the right way you are going to be able to put plenty of ballast in the trunk, plus the seats I'm talking about are only 10 to 15 pounds lighter than a stock seat. Oh one other thing pre 67 cars don't even have a latch to keep the back from going forward. To me this is a common sense issue, you can buy the pro car seats for about 200 bucks a piece, they are covered in black vinyl, can be bought with or without a head rest, and they offer high backs or low backs. To re do a set of 70 Camaro seats you first have to find some and since they are a one year only deal that's getting harder and harder to do. After you pay someone 400 to 500 dollars for some wore out piece of crap, then you have to buy new foam and covers which are about $600. So you've got about $1000 invested already then you have to pay an upholsterer $500 to re-cover them. $1500 compared to around $400. I realize that not all seats would be this costly but this was our deal. The thing is you get a better seat for about a third of the price a very few people would even recognize that they weren't the original seats.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Greg, should we send that to the powers for a look? Can't hurt. I know I had to keep an eye on my seats in my 69 Six Pack, course the 300 lbs in it didn't help. I think we changed the seat tracks and used very large washers on the floor. And there should not be any changing seats in the DP cars. The 09's came with dark gray Viper seats cause they have the slots for the belts & harnesses. The 10's I don't know, but I will find out. I have a couple.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I feel the rules should allow replacement of the seats with OEM seats manufactured on 1999 or later, or an aftermarket seat OEM look-a-like seat that meets the J2287 or J2896 SAE specs. These later seats meet the latest SAE impact and load design requirements, although my preference would be 1999 or later because this is when SAE implemented more stringent specs for auto manufacturers. European manufacturers have more stringent seat specs when compared to US made cars.

The first seat spec, J879, was established in 1968. Prior to 1968, there were no specific specs for seats other than those established by the OEM's.

This is a good article that may enlighten you to this issue:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/CARS/rules/cras.../deflrep1.html

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I'm no more worried that these Porsche seats will fold as I would a Kirkey. I guess if one were worried about that, place a strap across the seat back and weld some attachment points across the cross-bar of the roll bar.

Mickey, the side bolsters are not as prevalent where your hips are. The belts fit across the seat in this location nicely. I don't have a picture and the car is some 75 miles away. Porsche's are nice 150+ MPH cars as are many USA made cars. Looking at SSdiv6 post it appears 1999 and newer would be a good choice.

Don Morris,
Out of habit I constantly pick up the last printed rulebook I have and it's from 2009 (actually the one I quoted was from 2008). I have to get in the habit to throw out the printed material and go to NHRA's web site for the updates. Yes, you are correct, the rule has been amended to year / model claimed. They finally got that clarified.
I can't imagine any tech official not allowing a formed CM tubing that the seat would bolt to and that tubing could be welded or even bolted to the floor. It would be a much safer / secure mount. NHRA states "Driver’s seat tracks may be bolted down" - that's a great rule. However, as far as I know, all factory seat tracks are bolted down from the factory.

Still nobody from the safety brigade has seconded the motion for air bags....

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

"I can't imagine any tech official not allowing a formed CM tubing that the seat would bolt to and that tubing could be welded or even bolted to the floor. It would be a much safer / secure mount. NHRA states "Driver’s seat tracks may be bolted down" - that's a great rule. However, as far as I know, all factory seat tracks are bolted down from the factory."

Jeff, there's no tellin' what that means, the way some of the rules and regs are written.
I think they may be trying to say that you can fix the adjusters so they don't slide.

I wonder how many of the "pro" group that are worried about their seats, have welded the adjusters or drilled them for a grade 8 bolt or two.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I like to see the Stocker's look Stock, each step takes us further away from "Stock" but we are already on that path.

I bet there is not one of you that has to run a bench seat like I do ('64 Max). if you guys get to change to an after market seat it really doesn't drastically change the look but what about us that race cars that only came with bench seats? Nobody makes an after market bench seat!

To put after market buckets would be safer but would completely change to look of the car, certainly a perplexing problem.

JimR

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

So lets see... When I wreck my car and my mother has to wipe my *** again and feed me.. I can always say my stocker "looked" stock! I can only shake my head at the stupid things people say!!

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Well, for what it is worth, a lot of the cars, maybe the majority, have a roll bar, or roll cage, a safety harness, an aftermarket shifter, a cluster of aftermarket gauges, a shift light, and a huge aftermarket tach. With the exception of the new factory races cars, few, if any of the cars came with those items. Aftermarket wheels, and wheelie bars on the fast cars change their look on the outside. Is a seat, not a TIG welded trick aluminum seat, but something reasonably stock appearing, really that big a problem?

I agree entirely that the creeping incremental additions for more and more performance enhancing parts is a problem, and needs to be stopped. But is it wise to apply that thought process to safety as well?

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I'm with you Alan & Greg...."IF" you want to use them you can dosen't say you would have to....hell my old V/SA Nova had the stock gas tank in it when I sold it back in 2007! you know what's funny in dad's V/SA old 4-door car @ most tracks he dose not even have to wear a helmet...but in "stock" he has to have a helmet & jacket....I would have thought the seat would have come before the jacket....as the car runs 84mph (on a good pass)that being said people will bitch no matter what they do/don't do sooooo on we go!

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

No response on securing the seat back to the roll cage / bar cross bar yet? Is it too simple?
All you would need is a 2" wide nylon webbing with a pair of metal ends on each end. Both with bolt holes in them. Something like the crotch strap found on your 5-point harness. Simpson or somebody could make them for you tomorrow afternoon.
Place tabs on the cross bar, one on each side of the seat set at a distance to allow a tight fit of the webbing against the seat back. Somebody will no doubt have an idea on making the webbing adjustable for tension. Your already supposed to have a method of securing the seat back to the roll bar, this just enforces it.
Confirm or petition with NHRA that you can replace the seat adjuster track with a pair of CM stands which the seat is bolted to and the stands are welded or bolted to the floor with appropriate bracing under the floor as in a roll bar installation. A chassis shop will have less than 2 hours into this.