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-   -   Wagon Train (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=51893)

Andrew Hill 02-20-2014 12:59 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 421463)
Absolutely the right way to fix things!
Just wish it worked a little quicker, 4 years and 53 hp later, still going 1.20 under at Columbus on the brakes.

Harry 6674 02-20-2014 01:12 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
All this would be so easy for NHRA to fix. Follow NASCARs lead and put the cars on a chassis Dyno at the track. Maybe have a $1000.00 protest fee and pull the protested car off the scale and on the dyno. What ever the numbers are that's it. Wouldn't that work?

Ed Wright 02-20-2014 01:48 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry 6674 (Post 421467)
All this would be so easy for NHRA to fix. Follow NASCARs lead and put the cars on a chassis Dyno at the track. Maybe have a $1000.00 protest fee and pull the protested car off the scale and on the dyno. What ever the numbers are that's it. Wouldn't that work?
That would do it, just have to make sure restrictor plates and throttle stops were gone and, and all barrels connected. Need to stop them on the return road after class run offs, so they could not be detuned.

Ed Wright 02-20-2014 01:50 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hill (Post 421456)
An illustration of an "Advanced HP rating" and a guide on how to fix one:

"The horsepower rating for 09-10 Dodge Drag Pak entries with the 360 cubic inch engine and a factory rating of 275 currently rated at 328..."

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT----ET---Speed
4909 Dempsey Pendarvis 4171 Greg Hill
C3 ****WINNER**** 0.191 10.486 123.43 0.028 10.705 121.91
E/SA Index: 11.70 (+/-): -1.214 E/SA Index: 11.70 (+/-): -0.995
Prior rounds:
C2 (T Miller ) 0.188 10.728 120.00 (C Marshall ) 0.065 10.982 103.73
C1 (B Kastle ) 0.268 10.928 116.78 (D Walcott ) 0.074 11.485 91.29
Qualified: #34 10.928 NS #48 10.992 NS

"...has been increased by eleven horsepower, to 339 horsepower; for Stock Eliminator.

NHRA's 2013 Automatic Horsepower Factoring System outlines that any run of 1.20-second or more under the index will receive an immediate index decrease or horsepower increase. These changes are effective Sep. 24, 2013."
And, in Super Stock it is still 275 hp, four less than an LT1.

GUMP 02-20-2014 02:02 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry 6674 (Post 421467)
All this would be so easy for NHRA to fix. Follow NASCARs lead and put the cars on a chassis Dyno at the track. Maybe have a $1000.00 protest fee and pull the protested car off the scale and on the dyno. What ever the numbers are that's it. Wouldn't that work?
No. There are too many ways to cheat the system. The only way that I see to equalize things would be to force changes during heads-up races.

I do not fault the factories for trying to get any advantage they can with their new models. That is the way that it has always been played. The NHRA has some responsibility to keep it from being stupid, but there has to be an incentive for the factories to stay involved. There is no way that thirty years of advancement should be equalized with the stroke of a pen.

DonatoEng 02-20-2014 02:19 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Jeff, you sure know how to beat a hornets nest.

Unless someone was personally involved in all of the negotiations at the manufacturers (Mopar, Ford, and GM) and with NHRA to get these programs approved how can you point fingers at who came up with what.
If NHRA can not believe the OEM's then who would everyone be happy with submitting all of the required data for every vehicle in Stk / SS ?

Would everyone be happy if NHRA put all of the current and future engine combinations in a simulation program, at 110% efficiency, and spit out a HP number for everyone, I think not.

Ed Wright 02-20-2014 03:01 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Anybody with the slightest knowledge of engine building could look at the specs for many, compared to other engines at the same power level and know something is way wrong.
Likely they don't have the time to read all of them, and trust the mfgrs. Evidently usually the best approach.

Ed Wright 02-20-2014 03:03 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 421476)
No. There are too many ways to cheat the system. The only way that I see to equalize things would be to force changes during heads-up races.

I do not fault the factories for trying to get any advantage they can with their new models. That is the way that it has always been played. The NHRA has some responsibility to keep it from being stupid, but there has to be an incentive for the factories to stay involved. There is no way that thirty years of advancement should be equalized with the stroke of a pen.
What "advancement"? HP is HP. Makes no difference if it is a 1964 or 2014.

GUMP 02-20-2014 03:49 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 421491)
What "advancement"? HP is HP. Makes no difference if it is a 1964 or 2014.
There have been huge technological advancements over that time period. Each generation has had it's run and shouldn't expect to stay at the top forever. I remember when everyone hated your beloved LT1 for it's unfair advantage over the older combinations. This has always been the way. Note that we are often reminded of past irregularities when Billy or one of those other old dogs discovers a new "dime rocket".

Andrew Hill 02-20-2014 04:13 PM
Re: Wagon Train
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 421494)
There have been huge technological advancements over that time period. Each generation has had it's run and shouldn't expect to stay at the top forever. I remember when everyone hated your beloved LT1 for it's unfair advantage over the older combinations. This has always been the way. Note that we are often reminded of past irregularities when Billy or one of those other old dogs discovers a new "dime rocket".
The whole point of the hp rating system is to put cars in classes with equal contenders. "Advancements" are not a new thing. My 350 with a Holley and aluminum manifold is more "advanced" than a 350 with a Quadrajet and cast iron manifold, so it is rated higher. Pretty simple concept.


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