CLASS RACER FORUM

CLASS RACER FORUM (https://classracer.com/classforum/index.php)

- Stock and Super Stock (https://classracer.com/classforum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

- - stockers (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=77527)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625336)

I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars.

Can you give some examples? Are we talking items like wrong emblems, spoilers, fog lights or something like the wrong carb?

So what should happen when the class has been refactored by 100hp by people running illegal stuff? I'll tell you what happens... we end up with the same parts prohibited by the rulebook and passed through tech that everyone else runs so we can run competitively. Do they go back to the original factoring and stop the massaging or keep it as is and overlook the obvious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 625393)

That right there is the #1 issue.
The #2 issue would be getting the Tech Officials to all agree on the interpretation of an overly vague rule book.

Billy you're 100% correct, there will always be gray areas, I just think if the racers knew there was more of chance of getting looked at, it might tighten up the ones that might stray from the rules. And while they're being looked at, it gives the other racers time and opportunity to help keep people within the rules. I remember being torn at Indy and my competitor, who I had beaten followed my every move thru tear down and darn near inspected every part. Travis even asked me if I was okay letting him do that, I said sure, I got nothing to hide, but it sure makes you think twice about doing something outside the rules when one of your competitors looks at your stuff.

Bret Velde
2003 ??/SA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Swanson (Post 625396)

Can you give some examples? Are we talking items like wrong emblems, spoilers, fog lights or something like the wrong carb?

This is a slippery slope. I will keep my specific observations to myself, but again, these were items so bad that I honestly laughed out loud a few times. I am not the trim and emblem police, and while I agree those items should be correct per the combination of car claimed, they are not solely responsible for a tenth or two. I only noted items that would result in a performance gain.

Who is ultimately responsible for ensuring these cars are legal?

#1: Is it the racers that police themselves and call people out to the car owner/driver? (That’s a fun conversation)

#2: Or do you report illegal things to the proper NHRA official at the race?

#3: Both?

Some would not be comfortable with #1, but some certainly will when your exact combo is the one affected. #2 is fairly easy and could be done anonymously enough to not create conflict if so desired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 625391)

So, the sales pitch is that a company is going to profit by putting their logo on the shirts of tech guys that are hired specifically to go after racers that are anonymously accused of cheating? That sounds very promising!

If cars are so obviously wrong and you feel it is ruining class racing, how about pointing out the errors to the racer first? They may not even realize that their car is wrong. If they don't fix things, protest them. The original post doesn't sound like this would even require a tear down. I don't see things that are so obviously wrong taking a lot of time to police. What am I missing?

Putting logos on shirts of guys that are there to enforce the rules that NHRA puts in the rulebook, like they did years ago, to make a fair playing field for all competitors. That's why we race S/SS. If not, just build bracket cars, it would be whole lot less $$$. The only ones that wouldn't support it would be the cheaters. Why have rules and classes if not enforced? Like I said before it wouldn't be a huge amount $$$ compared to other sponsorships and business owners know you sponsor what you like to support and realize that advertising is an expense of doing business. Ever since my family took me to my first S/SS race in 1969 as a kid I fell love with these classes and it's amazing after over 50 years they still exist and still have a very strong following. Why let the lack of enforcing the rules dilute and ruin such a good thing. Just my $.02

Bret Velde
2003 ??/SA

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625336)

My two cents...

After many years of bracket racing, watching class racing from the other side of the fence, and helping several friends with their S/SS cars, I was finally able to put together my own (first) stock eliminator car. I stepped in deep, going right to A/SA with a 440 Six Pack Challenger. Most would say that's crazy, but I have gained a lot of knowledge over the years and have great support from many experienced class racers, so I felt that I could put something together that was decent. It has been a struggle to have the rulebook in one hand, a wrench on the other and put a car together that runs under the index. It should not be easy, but it should be possible - by the rules.

The double race (Sportsnats & LODRS) at National Trail Raceway this year was an eye-opener. With the message that Indy would not have class eliminations, it was clearly "the" race to be at because there was possibly no other opportunity to get that always sought after class win. WOW, what a field of cars... it drew the best cars from around the country and they put on a show. I was personally very observant of the Stock eliminators that were in attendance. I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars. If some racers are brazen enough to install those parts on their cars, knowing full well they are not legal...it makes you wonder what is inside the engine & trans? I am all for being creative and smart. Testing, testing and more testing of new parts, new settings, moving cams, moving weight, chassis settings... It becomes almost an obsession, and I really enjoy the challenge, but the rulebook is always in arms reach.

This should not be easy...class racing is special, and stock is the most difficult IMO. I have talked to so many people (mostly bracket racers) not familiar with stock and when you explain the rules, they just shake their heads and ask "how???" I love that reaction.

Some have said I'm naive, some have said "it's stock, and nothing is stock", some have said "they all cheat because they never get checked"

None of those statements is acceptable.

We have a rulebook, and the racers that choose to participate in class racing need to have the integrity to follow it. As soon as a racer knowingly makes the decision to put the rulebook aside, they become the problem. NHRA has a process to challenge other racers, and frankly I'm surprised it doesn't get used more often. If I had a fast class car (I don't) and someone paid the fee to have me torn down, I would consider it a compliment. In my eyes, to be fast, protested, and passing tear down, should earn a Wally!

I wish everyone the best, safe racing for all!

^^

Yep

Back in 2013-2015 when I was setting records and going thru all the teardowns, I occasionally took the T-Bird to local brackets.
Some were curious about the car after seeing the 4 cyl. Stocker run 11's and would stop by my pit area.

They had questions and after I explained what Stock Eliminator was about and all the restrictions and rules, and what I had to go thru after setting records, the typical response was " screw that....sounds like a lot of work "

My response : " Yes, and that is why very few people do it "

lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Perrone (Post 625395)

And the guy accuses people of Obvious cheating. Races .... a Pacer

James, Not so obvious to me..What am I missing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625400)

IMO ..we have a group of the most knowledgeable and experienced drivers and class car builders ever assembled right here
So if you're going to accuse people or a whole group of people of cheating, you should list these items here and let the group address them.
Otherwise your just wasting bandwidth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Davenport (Post 625334)

Not stealing the post, but I have seen cars lately on qualifying list that have moved 2 classes away from their shipping weight/factor...…..has the rule moving one class up or down been deleted ??? Maybe I missed the change or is this part of the new do it yourself mode ??? Just curious.

Rusty some cars like mine can move by changing the year model because of shipping weight difference. If I claim mine as a 91 it is a G H and I car or as a 92 it's a H I and J because of a small difference in shipping weight. Same car through and through but small difference in shipping weight.