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I'm still not seeing this as a way to bring young people to Stock and Super Stock. After a year of the new cars in Stock and Super Stock, how many are being fielded by young people new to the sport? None that I've seen. There are a few driven by the "'kids" of Stock or Super Stock racers, but those "kids" were likely to race in Stock or Super Stock anyway.

Face facts. Stock and Super Stock are not cheap. That is one of the big reasons why we don't have new young people in the classes in large numbers. Young people can't afford it. And just because you bring in "new" cars that are just as expensive as "old" cars does not mean young people will suddenly be able to afford them.

Take stock in reality. We are the bastard step children of NHRA. They don't REALLY want to save our classes. We're a heavy load on their tech department, especially at the track. Face it, we complain a lot (most often, with good reason). When we generate a decent car count, we take up a lot of space and a lot of time.

NHRA keeps us around because we pay entry fees and buy crew passes. They keep us around because we pay membership fees and certification fees. They keep us around because we pay competition license and number fees. They keep us around because they take the lion's share of the contingency money posted for us. They keep us around because they make a killing off of stuff we buy at the track. NHRA doesn't love us, they don't want us, they don't really care about us, and they certainly are not concerned with "saving us".

The "new" cars are here because NHRA can make an extra dollar or two (or more) from them. They're here because NHRA gets paid to have them here. NHRA isn't going to make rules, change rules, and make allowances for anything they aren't getting paid for, or saving money on. NHRA is not the "benevolent" "non profit" governing body it once was, long ago. It is a for profit corporation, and the board is driven by the bottom line and how they can improve it.

I just do not see a bunch of twenty something or thirty something "new" racers showing up in these "new" cars in droves, or in any real numbers, to race Stock and Super Stock.

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Stock is not necessarily the way to start Drag Racing, look at Don Garlits. Even with factory help he didn't even get in at Indy. He has really got to work as you guys say.

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[/I] I agree Alan. The stocker world as we know it will die. However i do see the NEW generation of cars still hanging around after all us older gens begin to retire or just hang it up due to fustration or other reasons. Then this class of stock will look almost like the 10 &1/2 tire class except with a few diff rules. Almost all of the stock classes will be heads up due to the classes they fit in today. The simple solution "would" have been create a class for these new "stock" cars,that would not discourage the older muscle cars to just give up due to not being competive. At the present situation it is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Just my opinion and nothing against the new cars except they are classed wrong. Old stock as we knew it is on its way out and that is very sad.

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Danny, the old style class racing will only die if we let NHRA kill it. Before NHRA kills itself.

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To address this part of your post - As I suggested before, why not make it easier on NHRA/IHRA stock tech? - the heads are already ported anyway, and the piston/pins are already light anyway. Why not whistle test for compression, P&G for cubic inches, and put an inspection cover on the pan to put a bore scope through to check the bottom end, seal em' and send 'em on their way?

Your racing against guys that have had their own blocks and manifolds cast, big bearing billet cams, relocated lifter bores, etc. Integrity in stock is looooooong gone.

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All of that is EXACTLY why Stock has become so prohibitively expensive. So, your solution is to make all of that legal, that way we can move on to something else that we can make legal because NHRA doesn't want to look for it? And that is your plan to "save" Stock? Seriously? You cannot "save" Stock by making Stock into something else.

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Actually the 2010 indexes are only around 0.1 faster than they were 17 years ago...thats .005 a year!
Then ofcourse is it too bad that the reason for at last lowering the indexes is to make the new cars shine!

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Alan, I hate to say it but todays young racers don't want the structure or comitment involved in running Stock or SS. I help out a bunch of kids at the local track and they just don't understand why I waste the time messing with stock stuff when I can buy so much "shiney" stuff and go so much faster. I'm not saying that they WON'T get it eventually but I doubt it.

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It's todays society and their desire for "instant gratification".

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What's your fix? - all that stuff and more is bogus anyway, I suggested what I did because the only way to stop it, is to let everyone have it.

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Myron, Billy, I agree with both of you. That is why I say the idea that the new cars are going to bring in newer younger Stock and Super Stock racers has zero basis in reality. New cars simply will not do it. And the way the new cars have been brought in to Stock and Super Stock will do far more to hasten the demise of the classes than they could ever do to "save" them.

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Billy, you are absolutely right. My best friend has an Outlaw Drag Radial mustang. He doesn't have the money to compete nationally but he'd got about 70k tied up in the car. It will run low 8's at well over 160. He doesn't understand class racing, and why we spend so much money to go "so slow" in his eyes. I could dig some 10.5 stuff, but only all motor with a stick shift, then it would be really fun.

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By that "logic", the only way to stop crimes is to allow everyone to commit them. Hardly a good idea.

NHRA is not going to "fix Stock, nor are they going to "save" Stock. Or Super Stock for that matter. If the classes are to be saved, it will be by the racers. Whether or not they want it bad enough remains to be seen. By what can be read here, the answer to that is "no".

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No, that's comparing apples to oranges - a crime could bring harm or even worse death to an individual. I'm talking about engine parts here, we'll have to agree to disagree, because the bogus parts have gone too far, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone to go back to the pre 1985 rulebook and have throw away all their "stock" parts and start over.

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Not really. The bogus parts harm the sport. Your solution is to make them legal and let everyone buy them. That is precisely why Stock is where it is today. In the past, every time a new part has been slipped in illegally, rather than stop it, NHRA has allowed it. Well, where has that gotten us?

Further, your "solution" is to make Stock even worse than it already is. And you call that "saving" Stock? How? If you make Stock even less Stock, how does that "save" Stock? It doesn't, it makes Stock into something else entirely.

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One thing that could be done is allow the earlier cars a ported head (realisticly they can't compare them anyway). The newer cars would have to run a untouched head The association could get heads to compare them to. I remember Gregg X getting a 428 ford head and bringing it with him. Looking for the "Canadaian" heads. He thought for sure a car in division one had them. He tore the car down and the head on the car was identical to the head Gregg brought.

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The bogus stuff is already in motors, and it ain't coming out. What I suggested makes it a lot easier to tech, and the associations won't consider stock as much of a "thorn in the side". Unless you can get a majority of stock racers to "turn back the clock", a whole new association with real "stock" rules is the only way to do what you want to do.

To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?

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Hey Art, if you're going to allow the earlier cars ported heads what do I get? Ported heads don't do me any good! Can I have my choice between a big superceded carb or nitrous?

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Many young drag racers don't understand S/SS racing, but there are thousands of young people competing in NMCA, NMRA, ADRL and other HEADS-UP associations where they have classes with structured rules and plenty of tech. The difference is that the racing is heads-up and the cars are much faster. For the cost of my Stocker I could be running 9s not low 11s and high 10s. They can purcahse new parts, not scrounge up old parts, not to mention that they get coverage on TV and in magazines.

If anyone thinks this type of racing is po-dunk, they should attend and you'd be amazed at the professionalism of the cars, teams and the overall show.

These associations make their racers into small-time heros, which is something NHRA or IHRA will never do because they have the Pros. Of course, none of those organizations would exist without the NHRA, which sanctions the tracks, helps with insurance and overall structure and overall promotion of our sport.

Evan

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To switch gears a little bit, but somewhat related - Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock now, why do you think that is?, and if you know, how are you going to fight something like that?[/QUOTE]

And where is this "updated" rule change for everyone to see??? :rolleyes:

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Most of the fast cars have been doing it for years anyway. Its already there.

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I finally told Greg, Marty, and NHRA how to identify a Canadian head when I worked for NHRA back in the very early 70's. No need to carry a head with you.

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Bob, the stock fuel tank deal won't bother me, because that's what I use anyway. However, after re-checking the NHRA rules, I'm feeling that AHRA just said that to abreviate the more spread out description that NHRA used for it's version of Street Equipment, and thus I expect them to be similar on that rule. If I'm wrong someone correct me, but all of the "HRA's" for the most part seem to be similar on the rules affecting our classes, with IHRA's acceptance of Crate motors being different?

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They'll still consider Stock a problem. They do not want to tech for Stock at all. You're still having them tech with your "solution" and they don't want to. So your "solution" still requires them to tech, which they do not want to do, and only serves to further dilute the class.

Nice pun on the clutchless deal. As to my thoughts on clutchless transmissions in Super Stock, I'm not really in favor of it, although I have a couple of older friends it will help. The truth is, we all know people are using clutch assisted transmissions like a clutchless box. How do you fight it? That goes back to the rest of the problem with NHRA.

I'm not looking to "turn back the clock", as nice as that might be. It probably is neither possible nor feasible, as things stand. But we can make an effort to stop the progression. If we don't, we might just as well pack it in now and go bracket racing. If you keep diluting it, we might just as well never open the hood anymore.

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The whole idea of "enhancements", and loosening of the rules starts when you are afraid to enforce the rules. Instead of a year off it has been the fashion to write a rule revision making the illegal parts legal. That is the sign of influence. (read that however you want).

The whole basis of S/SS has always been to take the rules and work within them to see how fast you can go. Not change the rules to pacify someone or some group who intimidates you.

Two "groups" have been solely responsible for this. Neither group can work on their own stuff enough to get under the index much less be fast. However, these two groups may have not been able to accomplish what they have if it weren't for the added support of the "hero worshipers" that think that anything their heros do is right.

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Your post hit the nail on the head with regards to why in my post #114 I wondered how our sadly departed NHRA founder "Mr. Wally Parks" would feel about this. Corporate greed has settled in, and unless something happens to make me feel otherwise (not likely), the days of our classes are being numbered, and our classes future with young lions such as Stock 608, and Dion, etc., are numbered.

I/we loyal (meager incomed Stock & Super Stock, if not all of us racers), sorely miss you WALLY....

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I am a 26 year old grad student, and like Mr. 55 Chevy, my (dad's) car had not seen the track in 17 years. After begging the old man for years and years he finally gave in and this was the first year we got it back out on my limited budget. I was ecstatic when I ran 11.teens on my 11.55 index (Still qualified way at the bottom of the pack). That was the best pass that car had ever seen and now I have an 11.25 index to deal with. Now I remember why dad had to quit racing back in the day and why I may have to quit already.

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Dont quit now, we need all those mustangs we can get on the track. Good luck. Kip Martin

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and...we need all the stick cars we can get on the track! :) ;)

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I agree I just got into racing last year I bought a new car and worked and spent my *** off to get 30 under and now I'm going bracket racing. I think nhra will have 5 or 19 less stockers and super stocker at every race in2010 who's got the money to build a faster engine and if your only running 30 under like me you can barely afford to race anyway anyone want to buy a stocker that can't run the number?

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you got it

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A witness told me it was 9.35 @ 142. And it was FORD testing for the next run of cars.