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-   -   How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS? (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=32264)

RULER 03-22-2011 06:54 PM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
If you think there have not been letters sent to NHRA about these new cars, then you have been living under a rock, the point was made perfectly they don't belong in stock, these cars should be in super/stock. There not production cars!!!!!! Next time push your rock aside and pay attention.

novassdude 03-22-2011 07:02 PM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
I did question them on how the 4.6L 3V got the HP rating it did. This is the response I got from Bruce.


Let me give you some info on the Ford 281 CID 4.6L 3 valve engine as it relates to the NHRA. NHRA Stock eliminator racers are Limited to Model,engine combinations that are accepted/approved by the Technical Services Dept. This is done via an extensive

TI ( Techincal Information ) form. That is each engine component is evaluated and approved.

Ford 2008 4.6L engines approved for use in the Cobra Jets.

300/281 CJ coupe

325/281 CJ Bullitt

430/281 CJ Roush Stage 3 coupe

510/281 CJ P51 coupe



All of these engnes are pretty much the same: IE 2@57 MM throttle body,dish piston, 2@1.340 and 1@ 1.500 valves,

Same cylinder head # RF3L3E-6040 K.

Ford 2010 4.6L engine approved for use in the Cobra Jet.

235/281 CJ coupe. Same engine except throttle body. 2@62.5MM.

None of the above combinations have been or are currently being used in Stock Eliminator.

Ford has no plans to submit any combination for the 2011 season.

There will be Cobra Jets in 2012, but no 4.6L engines only the 330 and 302.



Bruce Bachelder

The answer I got makes no sense to me Basically he says it is the same as the 300hp version with bigger throttle bodys. Yet it is 65 hp less.
I sent a follow up asking how it could be less with the bigger throttle body but as of yet I did not get a responce to that question.
He has been very prompt in answering question.

Chad Rhodes 03-22-2011 07:03 PM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Downing (Post 247842)
I am not here to try and rub anyone the wrong way but, If you really think ford is pumping NHRA up with a bunch of money to make these cars dominate in Stk and SS then I have some swamp, uh I mean prime lake front property to sell to you. Ford Corporate does not give a **** if they dominate they care about all the amount of advertisement they get. That is why they are the official vehicle of NHRA. Ford Racing tells the people that talk to NHRA what the HP ratings should be then NHRA puts them in the book. This has been argued about for over a year, and it always just fizzles out and dies without anyone doing anything about it. If everyone that gets on here and bitches spent their time writing letters to NHRA and being proactive then maybe something would change, and if it didn't at least you could say you tried. To me it just seems that ya'll need something to complain about and if these cars weren't around it would be something else.
You're as lost as last year's Easter Eggs huh?

Patrick Downing 03-22-2011 07:41 PM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes (Post 247856)
You're as lost as last year's Easter Eggs huh?
Yes chad. I must be lost. Would you please fill me in on how the world of NHRA works?

P.S. you guys are all lost because this combo was in SS last year! I believe Mr. Wolfe ran it a handful times.

BlueOval Ralph 03-23-2011 07:12 AM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Danny has given him a answer therfre he can not speak, don't forget he's Danny's Parriot (Poly want a cracker)


Quote:
Originally Posted by novassdude (Post 247855)
I did question them on how the 4.6L 3V got the HP rating it did. This is the response I got from Bruce.


Let me give you some info on the Ford 281 CID 4.6L 3 valve engine as it relates to the NHRA. NHRA Stock eliminator racers are Limited to Model,engine combinations that are accepted/approved by the Technical Services Dept. This is done via an extensive

TI ( Techincal Information ) form. That is each engine component is evaluated and approved.

Ford 2008 4.6L engines approved for use in the Cobra Jets.

300/281 CJ coupe

325/281 CJ Bullitt

430/281 CJ Roush Stage 3 coupe

510/281 CJ P51 coupe



All of these engnes are pretty much the same: IE 2@57 MM throttle body,dish piston, 2@1.340 and 1@ 1.500 valves,

Same cylinder head # RF3L3E-6040 K.

Ford 2010 4.6L engine approved for use in the Cobra Jet.

235/281 CJ coupe. Same engine except throttle body. 2@62.5MM.

None of the above combinations have been or are currently being used in Stock Eliminator.

Ford has no plans to submit any combination for the 2011 season.

There will be Cobra Jets in 2012, but no 4.6L engines only the 330 and 302.



Bruce Bachelder

The answer I got makes no sense to me Basically he says it is the same as the 300hp version with bigger throttle bodys. Yet it is 65 hp less.
I sent a follow up asking how it could be less with the bigger throttle body but as of yet I did not get a responce to that question.
He has been very prompt in answering question.

novassdude 03-23-2011 11:24 AM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Downing (Post 247865)
Yes chad. I must be lost. Would you please fill me in on how the world of NHRA works?

P.S. you guys are all lost because this combo was in SS last year! I believe Mr. Wolfe ran it a handful times.
And that is where it belongs in SS or maybe comp.

Marvin Robinson 03-23-2011 11:37 AM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim kaekel (Post 247542)
if you are wondering how this can happen, just look at which vehicle is the official vehicle of the nhra?

X2
x3

Marvin Robinson 03-23-2011 11:44 AM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan roehrich (Post 247719)
the cars you speak of were put in super stock, not stock eliminator. You've illustrated perfectly the point i've been making for about 3 years now. Thanks. The basic premise of stock eliminator is, or actually, was, that the cars legal for the class were originally street legal production cars. That was the entire point of the class, not having one off trick purpose built race cars in the class. That's why they put those hemi darts and cudas in super stock from day one, and why the rest of these factory race cars belong in super stock.

And in allowing those cars in stock eliminator, nhra has completely changed the character and premise of the class, and effectively rendered everything else obsolete. Now they can and will allow any manufacturer that they want to add a new paper combination whenever they want. Because they do not have to produce the cars anymore, they just have to add paper to a catalog. They can create, on paper, a new combination any time they want. It's a completely unsustainable business model that is directly contrary to the best interests of the class.
x2

MikeFicacci 03-23-2011 11:46 AM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
I just don't see the argument that the younger crowd can relate to these cars and therefore have interested in Stock Eliminator. Kid X goes to the Summernationals and sees new Mustangs running crazy fast then goes to his nearest dealer and purchased a Mustang GT 5.0....but wait, the 5.0 isn't an approved car. Sorry kid, call Ford Racing and shell out $85,000 for a car you can't even legally drive down the street. Worst part is, the 5.0 at 412 horsepower would be a very competitive combo but Ford will put a large dome on the piston and bigger cam and rate it at less. So kid X is still screwed because he's building a brand new motor for his new car. There are no "kids" getting into our game with these new cars and the $100,000 price tag they have. Plain and simple.

CycloneFE 03-23-2011 12:00 PM
Re: How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?
 
Mike,

I think Jeff Teuton is a "big kid", he acts like it, and seems to be enjoying it. Good for him.


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