Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Everyone said the same negative stuff when the 12.9 sec. street stock '98 LS1 e.f.i. Camaros and Firebirds arrived on the scene. IMO, they have been great for the stock and super stock classes, so why shouldn't the CJ's, gen 5 Camaros and Challengers be as well? We can't live in the '60's forever regarding this stuff....just my 2 cents.....Bring them (all the new iron) on...this upcoming season will tell alot. WJ

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Those 12.9 second street stock Firebird & Camaro's got put into a class of their own until the horsepower got sorted out. Remember the EFI classes? The best class racers in the country are in the high 9's. Now they have to run against factory cars running 9.20's that have not even been played with yet. Will we see the first 8 second "stock" pass this year? With the new AHFS rules, it will take 20 years for the any car but a DP to win AA or A at Indy.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

My .02 cents. The package cars are a great historical right now piece, likely to retain their value better than a any 6 banger conversion to stocker. It doesn't matter how quick the cars are, speed is just one component of winning.

In 2010 will I get more questions at the race track from fans re my 1970 challenger rt/se Xstocker bracket car, the dakota pilot truck stocker, or the drag pak? Which will be more fun to drive? To be determined....

Will people come to the track just to see the new cars? Stock/Superstock is in my mind a great car show of classic and modern american muscle. Its a Art show, history show, engineering show, etc. The hooter's girls would not hurt the pull though....

Saving stock? The entire stocker crowd is what drew me in, not just specific cars, but doing wheelies with rules. Best group of people out there.

"package" owners should try their hand at the IHRA too, that will help "save" stock.

Beard, you are 100% correct the street challenger would pull more people in, but the HP ratings and the weight of the cars is just too high to not only be competitive, but with the new indexes, just qualifying. Although if I get the time, IHRA pure stock might be possible, but factory help with the submission of data will be what is needed there.

The package cars do one thing as designed, they are the quickest route to the track for a stock car. It might be the only way for now, with the limited attention spans and interest levels of the modern crowd, and the apparent disinterest level by the factories in promoting their street chariots. Can't race what isn't in the guide......

Eric

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

If youre dumb enough to still be banging youre head aginst the wall, dont complain about it giving you a headache

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Our shop owns 2 factory race cars. One being a 64 Dodge Race Hemi Lightweight and the other is a 09 Challenger Drag Pak and we love them both. The 64 has lived its life as a bracket racer for over the past 20 years because of the cost's involved to be competive in class. For the past 6 years we've raced the 64 in Nastalgia Super Stock. Its like a blast from the past plus we can do it on a small budget and to me, there's nothing better than watching headsup old iron vs old iron in the same index. But times are a changing. The new Challenger has again sparked up much interest in the shop. A few guys are already planning on making a DP clone. For one reason, they weren't selected and second, the cost. You don't get much of a car for the money, but you get an oringinal. One person found a used high mileage 09 6 cyl Challenger for $12,000. He can now go to the local Dodge dealer and order any part that comes on the DP. We figure he can build a tune key clone for less than the price tag of what a DP costs to begin with. With a little blood, sweat and tears, he'll have him a nice bracket car and it'll be quick on the street and thats what most guys want anyways. A few years down the road the prices of used Challenger's will go down and hopefully the Mopar parts counter will be busy with guys buying parts so they can build them a street/strip/show car on an affordable budget. Too me, it'll be no different than the late 60's, early 70's. At least the younger crowd can now reconize the newer Mopar's, Ford's and Chevy's. It'll get their minds off the "ricer's" with their fart cans that can be tuned with a Play Station and that ain't no joke.

My feelings....There's 1320' in the 1/4. Use it all. I know of a National record holder, old school B/SA car that has been the 9's running it out the back door with its tongue hanging, but you'll never see him do it at an event. Maybe these new factory cars will bring out the best of the old. The beginning of this year should be somewhat exciting and probably very contraversal. Just my .02

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

So the people who have been racing stock, many for the past 30 years of more, should be punished to benefit a few people? People who have spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours working on their cars should have them become uncompetitive? I know, eventually they will become factored correctly, but the challengers only got 5 this year, the mustangs 14 I think. Now there are a lot more motors to factor correctly, and that won't happen in just one year, or even five. Call me crazy, but it makes sense to me that NHRA should do what's best for the majority of its members, the ones with old iron as you say.

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Well its good for you as a vendor too :) I dont know if I was your first Drag Pak part sale but I wont be the last....I told everyone I know...all 12 people :D

Your shipping was monster fast too.....

New sales and development, new customers....new fans and interest as youve seen first hand in your own shop....those are big parts of my "Idea"

Your lightweight was not a cheap car new either do you know what it cost new ? I cant remeber if you told me or that was someone else.

Im dying to see what happens when variable valve timing engines hit the track , and with direct injection...if theyre stroking over these cars, like in Jaws "I got a taxidermy man back home gonna have a heart attack when he seen what I brung him"

Oh....and I found an A1 guy that can custom make the billets and will sell just billet cores to have someone else grind....and will and CAN do custom VVT Cams.....

LSM outta Michigan , Steve Sr. Great guy.....did all that was promised and more on a real time crunch....amazing.

The second car we do will be a "clone" since well have a second combo, weve got 1 "original" and the other dosent matter.....almost bought a "rebuildable" on ebay last week for 5k....but too much shell damage.

Then again cars like Doug Duells have more RD and build in them than DP cars ordered, especially his...I can see his in 20 years having enough history to be as if not more valuable...

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Dont worry we wont take any pride in beating you either. Now, if the winning is done soley from a driver perspective then we will, but if its because our car is faster and youre not in a DP , then no, in a way well fell bad for you and Im serious, I dont know and cant speak for the other DP crews and teams, but to me beating an 98 Camaro is still like using a flamethrower to light a ciggarette in SOME cases...

Our New Hemi Racings goal is simple....to be one of the Quickest cars out there we are after.....those at present are ONLY other DP cars and the SCJ's thats it....I dont care if we are the fastest or quickest even against the SCJ's Id be suprised if that was even possible with them and a 4 liter huffer, Id like to be Competitive even if its in a losing position against them however....and maybe.....just maybe once nick one but good, what we DO care about is that we are by mid year one of the quickest of the DP cars....

Thats I guess why I really could care less if they do corrall the package cars off to their own pasture....dosent phase me at all, may in fact give us our own prime time as it were.....no issues or arguments here....

Its Stock Eliminator, no different than bikes...I consistently had one of the fastest bikes , best handling and all around set up but I SUCK as a rider, know it didnt care and still built the bikes year after year most years 2 sets...Im 220 and in GP250 thats like an elephant riding a schwinn....but still I did it....I enjoyed it. Still for the better part of 15 years I built them and rode them. I am certain there are a lot more of the "Silent" majority of Stockers out there that are the same. Has to be, or I will indeed find it dissapointing. But I know theyre out there, I get emails and calls from them every day, and not DP guys....funny thing is most are on this board but seldom post.

Im also under NO illusion as far as winning goes and , we will be beaten more than we win period.....And in MOST cases by non-package cars. Thats racing, thats life, but thats the hunt. I do not even know if its possible for us even with a top gun driver to win a National Event, there are a lot of things on the suspension side I dont know yet , Id like to believe it is, but its Stock Eliminator, sooooo many many factors come into play other than a "Quick Car" We know that too....also what I can promise is we will NEVER win a national event as a team if we dont participate at that level. So what happens if we run all year and never place or win a National ?? Nothing....we dont expect to. We HOPE to but those are 2 different things.

Hell I have never said we are going to go out and tear everyone and anyone up...dont care to...its kinda...well its kinda , IN SOME cases not all lopsided. BUT I also think that as many have said here people have more potential than they have had to tip their hand to...might be interesting.

But our goal is to be one of the best built running and tuned DP packages out there, dont know if we can, Guys like Coughlin and Garlits scare me with their contacts and resources, Irv Johns because of what hes already done and will only get better with, others like Duell as well....and then there are the "Unknowns" 3 of them scare me bad, but wont be ready till later in the year....they scare me because they too already know this engine, and when we ordered the car we were hoping we were one of the few who had our hands in one and those are the cars we are gunning after, the rest as you call them "the real stockers"....well they can actually hurt us more than help us...if we get complacant and just law of averages says they will be the danger in most eliminators.

By the mid of the year I hope to be "tuned" up enough to start running divisional stuff with the car, but Im not a "natural" at driving, Im pretty good at it when I do it repetitavley, but I wont have a chance to be running 2 or 3 times a week for months this year...its just not possible, I may get lucky but I may not.

2 years ago when I looked into and was starting this "journey" I was floored shocked and disheartened when I looked at some of the cars and packages put together over the years and "by the book" floored and pretty dismayed people were pulling the performance they were out of combos Ida guessed never had it in them....Running 10 with uncut heads on some of these cars in A and B, yeah right...but they were....my first thought was "Were gonna need a lot more power" to compete here....what people have done is amazing to me...and that is where I respect almost all the people who have put truly amazing cars together out of smog heads and low comp engines and other "junk" not in what they built but what they started with....amazing....

Cheers

Re: How the factory "Package" cars may save Stock
 

Hmmm...dont know if I agree or disagree, it happend to me before in bikes, exact same thing, I took it ok, I didnt have a choice, I adapted.

The funny thing is on the motor side I am applying everything I learned on small displacment engines for the last 20+ years, weve been using coatings for example for that long and then some, weve been doing other things for 1/20th a hp you on the car side have probably never seen....a few I told about a few items were like yeah yeah tell me more, at that point I capped it.

Punished no....not at all, but 30 year old cars...those are representive of Stock cars now ? Thats why I said, and someone else did what about a vintage break out. Vintage bikes drew MORE people than when we were mixed.

I know about the countless hours working on the cars....I am too....16hrs a day 7 days a week for more time cumulative that some other people EVER have have their hands on their car. EVERYTHING short of the cage....EVERYTHING has had my hands in on around, painted fitted checked...etc...so on that youll get no mercy here.

When I said its good for EVERYONE but the people with the old iron, I wasnt talking about the other teams / cars only, I was talking about the NHRA, the Vendors, the Manufactuers, the performance service compaines, and the fans......Once again, for everyone except the older packages....thats what I meant. New product development, new promotion, new fans....seems all good to me unless "Stockers" want to hang a sign on the door that says "Private Club Keep Out" and I dont thing thats the case for most people in stock, far from it, the outreach and the knowlege, the notes here, the phone calls here tell me most welcome us with open arms and tons of geniune help....

So Im excited.....it will be good...and dont worry about the 5 hp last year I plan for the full boat of 3.25% at Pomona, Pheonix and Gainesville each...if Im still able to make it and the car is capable :)