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Stock Eliminator is so diluted now, that it has lost some of it's interest for me.

I love cars that still look like cars that came of the showroom floor.

NOT looking forward to the day that the class becomes - - Stock Appearing Eliminator. Without consistent TECH at events that is where we are headed.

YES, I know that the cost of consistent, reliable tech inspections is OUT OF SIGHT. With all the cars that now run in the class, it would be nearly impossible to train the personnel needed and to have available all the info needed would be overwhelming. Plus NHRA doesn't really care.

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It depends. For example, if you wanted to run a 67 L-88 Corvette, the number is 50, and only 36 were officially sold. There are some cars that were never built, some factory race cars that a complete engine was never actually built. Go figure. Rules are for "little people".

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Tilt your head to the left a little and squint...
See...?
Looks just like a Turbo 400...

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Yeah but they were an option in FE equipped Bolivian mail trucks, a highly guarded secret. Only one year though...

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I noticed in rule book that you can not run a aluminum center section in the 9" rear end unless it cam from factory. meaning no mark william's Plus rule does not allow 12 bolt rears in that car. plus no aluminum or carbon fiber drive shafts unless available from factory. But i'm sure nhra will change this for that car just like they allow crate motors in copos

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No worries folks that BMW engine will be leaking oil like a sieve after a couple of races. We have a 328i, I know. 😵*💫

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Much like the LT1 powered Camaros and Firebirds (with Ford Pinto rack and pinion steering to boot!) that were allowed a year after the LS engine replaced the LT1 in production cars. As for the 500 minimum production number required to be eligible for Stock or S/S, guessing that went out the window about the same time that all the zero sold to the general public, "Paper" cars were allowed in. Like the factory COPO, Drag Pak Challengers, and Cobra Jet Mustangs were sold with engines, transmissions, and rearends that were totally different than what the showroom available street cars were available with. Plus at that time, the Thunderbolt, and several other combinations, had a power per weight ratio below 8.0, which at the time, was the highest allowed in Stock. So, again, to allow the "Paper" cars to play, the power to weight ratio requirements were changed to make room for the 7.99 and less cars that could run in Super Stock, now fit into Stock.

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Then just run slower than M. That's what I did. I was/am new to class racing so I entered in a spot that made sense. Wanna go faster? Nobody is stopping you but your own willingness to put up the money and time it takes to do so.

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This thread and the introduction of a new manufacturer has been very exciting and a great read! Semantics about this car's legality aside, it is awesome to see a new player in STK. I'm 25, and it is so great to see a real car that you can actually go out and buy that isn't a FS car be added to the guide. I sincerely hope this starts a trend of adding lots of new cars to the guide, imports and domestics from the year 2000 and beyond. some of you older guys have been racing STK for so long that you're used to being surrounded by the cars of your youth. Well this Supra and other imports like it are the cars of my youth. I'm happy Gump could bring just one of them to life and competition.

EDIT: That being said, both of my race cars are 1979 and 1980 models so I realize I'm not exactly practicing what I preach, but I enjoy the cars I have and look forward to seeing new ones too!

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Why not a Dana 60? Chevy trucks have them.

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Frank, in the early 80s GM offered a "Service Package" bolt-in rear (over-the-counter or warranty) for Camaros and Firebirds with the 305 HO and stick. The 7.5s just wouldn't stay together. This wasn't the "Australian rear" but a genuine bolt-in Dana 44! I've owned a few of them over the years.

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I hunted for one for years!

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the rules for Stock and Super Stock say AMERICAN MADE production cars? Or has that also been side lined by the bean counters in California?

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Well...I guess I was wrong. I just looked up the rules for Stock:

Reserved for 1955 or newer model-year factory-production
automobiles and some sports cars.

I believe it used to say AMERICAN MADE factory production automobiles.

And Super Stock:

Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-produced automobiles and sports cars.

I was unaware of the change.

In the words of Bufford T. Justice, what in the H*** is the world comin' to!?

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I sort of remember that, but my main takeaway is how bad things got back then. When the engineers actually designed something that couldn't handle a full-smogged 305 HO.

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I think you missed my point here. What is the ET cut off requiring a roll bar, quarter mile?
So, if a beginner wants to try Stock and he already owns a Fox body that is a natural L car, what do you propose that he should do with it?

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I am pretty sure it did at one time...

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Isn't there a rule about no truck rear ends...?
Thought I read that somewhere...
Besides the weight factor, probably better than a 9" except for ease of gear changes, may as well stick with the 12 bolt...

Now maybe a 9" housing with 12 bolt chunk...
I could do that...!
;),

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BWAHAHAHA, just spit my tea out!!

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He should put in a roll bar and belts, it's not that expensive. a nice set of rims and tires probably cost more!

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The point is the discrepancy between the rules for ET brackets & Stock. Why do you need SFI pants and a rollbar in an M stocker, but not a 12.XX bracket car? The competition in the other lane runs just as quickly in both classes...

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Mike, Expensive is a relative term here...

Building an FE Ford A& B car is not that expensive either. LOL

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Here at LVMS, I race my Valiant that runs 11.5 in both Pro and
Sportsman (Been Track Champ in both) with no roll bar/harness
or racing jacket and pants.

However, if I run my Aspen wagon Stocker on a 13.07 index in M/SA =
I must have a roll bar/harness and full Monkey Suit!

I think Yake makes a valid point!

In both Stock and Pro, I routinely run 8 and 9 Second race cars
regularly so any difference that way?

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To be honest, that was a thought that came to mind, U/SA and I can run an open face helmet and t shirt and factory seat belt, turn it into a crate motor car (I have all the parts except cam now) and I need all the stuff with time limits on it.

Actually, I got all the plans to build a t bucket and was going to race one of those at one time. The exact reason was the fact that if I run an open top t bucket, I need all the gear that expires every two years..how many passes will I make in two years, divide that by the cost to purchase and then the cost to recert....makes it really expensive per pass compared to a door car running the same ET.

I can get rearended by a 9 second competitor in either class....so....I agree, all ET breaks should be according to ET only and not class.

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We are live with Daren talking about the Toyota program.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1LPY97YcyA/

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Live at 8:30PM ET





Bret Velde
2003 I/SA

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An awesome interview with Daren about the Toyota Development,

https://youtu.be/H1UYIYep68w

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Oh no I get it for sure I have no issue with it . I was responding to someone else that was asking about putting a 9 inch in other GM cars but I think he deleted the response. Any idea when you will test it or has it been tested ?

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Yac, I see you're point and it is a valid one. I suspect they made the rules based on what cars could potentially go instead of what they actually do. That said, those cars in middling classes like K/L/M are rarely gonna run fast enough to need a roll bar and belts (11.5 et). That'd be 1.35 under for an M car. Not impossible but not probable.

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I realize now after trying to get just an ear from the Manufacture and NHRA to communicate these days.I attempted to get a V6 2008 and up Challenger in the books. No interest is the best I can figure. Are there any 2015 and up Camaros with a V6 in the books? I hope the Toyota is a hit with the fans in stock. Best of luck to you. Why it has to be for the rich only to use a new car is my heart burn.

Paul Haszlauer

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For those who came later>

Some time in the late 80's ,the roll bar rule for brackets was 11.99.
For Stockers, it was down thru J & K
Gen 3 305 cars started to get popular, the hp factors were pretty low, and some could run in the high 11's in L, M, N, etc.
Guys would show up for test and tune with no bar, by the Stock rules and the local bracket tech guys didn't know how to handle this. The bracket guys would complain because they needed a bar in the 11's.
NHRA, instead of using the ET as a guide, just jumped in and added L&M roll bars to the rule book .

Not long after, the bracket roll bar requirement went down to 11.49.
The 305's got hp added to where they could run F&G and run pretty close to, or in the 10's.
I brought up this inconsistency to Bruce, several years ago. He listened and said he would bring it up, but nothing ever happened with it.

So now we have M cars at Denver in the high 13's that require a roll bar but 11.50 bracket cars that don't.

I know we lost a few good class racers because of inconsistencies like this.
We probably lost a few beginners too. But does NHRA care,...Nah

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It's great that new stuff is getting added...but this. I did a little digging out of curiosity...and the cheapest used example I found was $34k with 90k miles. I guess you could go the Copart route...but you'd have to be careful watching for frame damage, parts availability, etc.

So, I'm not sure who's going to build one of these? I feel like it's going to be a one-off case. $34k could buy a pretty nice turn key car that doesn't need completely gone through.

And I agree on the roll bar requirements. I just put a full cage in a car last Summer, that might run 10.0's at best because of this. What this comes down to is laziness on the sanctioning body's behalf to police ET's. I don't see how it could be that hard to put a flag in the timing system if a car is only certified to 11.50, 10.00, 8.50 etc. and runs under that.

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The first proto build of the Drag Pak had a leaf spring suspension. That got thrown out for a rear suspension, framing and a very busy rollage that cost 20 times the labor to build and cost. Why, so the cars could go 7s. Sound inexpensive to me, right? I happen to have one I built all by myself. Labor intensive for the normal person with good skills.I have a stick Laying next to it. I haven't had the time to get back to the project. I have built 3-4 cars in the mean time. Those builds are late 60 cars. Easy peasy! Just need to make those straight again. Someone missed the stock term or at least stock is not 100,000.00 cars to start with.

Paul

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How hard/expensive is it to add a roll bar/cage to a Stocker ?

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I recommend going on sites like CoPart and look for a "flood car". I paid way under $$$ on my old LS1 Camaro and my 2019 Challenger. There is nothing on the wiring, brakes or fuel systems that you would use and the body may have been wet. but all the essential parts are there and do not have extensive body damage. Dig an old Camaro out of a field and you will have to replace all the body parts, much $$$ and 5 years in body shop hell. Just a suggestion. Dyno

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Piece of cake in a newer challenger..

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Good interview, Bobby, Gump.
There was an issue that was not covered but was brought up here. But, seeing I don't race with NHRA ,it's not up to me to police these matters.
The way I see it is that those issues that are a bit sketchy will be good to go by the time Indy comes around.
Once we see what class it falls in , I'm sure the other guys will be all over it. ;-)

Good luck with the Toyo, Gump. Nice job.

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Nice job, looks as though it needs carpet ….

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Trans problem solved as "corporate trans" and NHRA accepted adapters permitted per rule book under Stock/Trans.-- definitely a "paper one of car" in my opinion maybe belongs in SS but really pushing the rules here on Stock---FED 387