Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Darren - I do think you make a lot of good points and there should be long-term concern about the viability of performance-based S/SS racing. The reduction of class events to roughly 10% of NHRA national/divisional/open events next year and less than 5% of elimination rounds likely being head-to-head (pure guesstimation) sort of leaves qualifying as the primary vehicle for trying to run fast.

I don't have a solve, but for someone on the young side of the class racer bell curve (I'm 36 and 10 years into S/SS), would strongly push to have more class runoff frequency at divisional or national opens and reduce class count so there's more opportunity for heads-up racing. Associations like CCRA are fantastic and the vast majority of what we've run due to the people and fun factor, but there's still limitation on performance since it's essentially a dial-in program.

There's plenty of younger folks involved in drag racing, and while the participation % of the population is lower than it was 50 years ago, the absolute number is there it's just not active in S/SS or NHRA in general. With multiple other mediums available to race today, it's challenging to convince someone to spend $30K+ on a 11-second Stocker that requires extensive travel to primarily bracket race when they could run 160mph in a dragster or 10s in a Drag N' Drive car.

I love class racing because of the strive for performance and hope to stay involved for the impending future, but do think it's a long transition to pure bracket racing if we don't find more opportunity to generate sustainable head-to-head competition.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

JMHO Class racing and event qualifying at divisionals and nationals should be no ahfs. Give people chance to run cars to potential. Ahfs would be in eliminations only. Also class at national events and divisionals would have no combo class. If you had a single for class give out a wally. I mean most people are paying $300 or so entry at nationals and a little less at divisionals that is only fair. With that being said I know there is not a chance NHRA would accept that.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Mike, std teardown nowadays is pulling a head of your choice. I haven't seen a rod and piston pulled except for a protest. As others had said, if you were chosen for teardown, I am sure there would some willing to help. If you were in D1, I know you would have help if needed, including myself, and am sure every division there are those that would jump in.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I proposed what I think is an efficient system for keeping class at nationals where they belong. It's back a few pages.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Good luck making this happen. It would be nice, kinda like the "old days". You are dealing with the NHRA though.
I have been hoping for the old "Tom Compton" idea to come around again.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

0 years, but I just built my first stocker. Drove it for the very first time last week! It's slow and way down in the alphabet. I'm still learning how everything works frankly, I'm not even sure exactly what class it will be in as I haven't been able to weigh it yet. It's a rusty 4th generation Malibu though, I bought the car rolling and put a bone stock small block together for it that should be legal. Most likely not fast though.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Keep trying!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I am beside myself excited. First car I've ever built that was 100% mine start to finish, and I did almost all the work to finish it. I've already learned so much just by making myself repair wiring, plumbing, going through class racer info to get legal parts. It's been so awesome. I feel like I'm starting over in drag racing and it's so refreshing. Now, to figure out how to beat somebody with it :D

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Now not to "derail" this important thread again, why don't you start a "build" thread!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

agree :rolleyes:

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Billy, I STUMBLED on this feed by accident, but reading it REMINDED ne why I stopped racing stock in the old days, when you had the NOVA. I had been considering getting back into it again, but seeing all this stuff is still getting worse rather then getting better gave me a wake up call.THANKS

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Ya know Chuck, there are very few Racers making any money at this anymore but there are plenty of fine, intelligent, friendly people to be found in this sport (oops, hobby). The friendships and camaraderie that I have felt and seen over the years still makes dealing with the NHRA worth it!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

So If I catch up on my dues, I can join the club again?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Jump in the pool! The water's fine. But maybe don't start by jumping in the deep end!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

The shallow end of stock is deeper than expected, but is refreshing!!!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Brother tell me about it

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Many of my best friendships have been made with the racers at a drag strip

Whenever I go to a Divisional or a Stock/Super Stock combo race here in Div. 6 it is ALWAYS a great time. The conversation always starts with a handshake or hug. From there is goes to How are you doing and what have you been up to lately. More like a family reunion than just friends meeting up. Life is very good.

Best part for me, even though I haven't had race car for many years, is always the fun times and shared respect. I now call many people that I only knew of - part of MY DRAG RACING FAMILY.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Which is the deep end?
I would say it’s deep for any class to run near the top. We all have pretty much the same expenses. They may drop off a little for fewer cylinders and they may be a little higher for scarcity or collectible value. So I always say build something you like instead of something you think you can afford.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

This is very true. If I raced like I really want to race in Super Gas I'd need something that could go 9.90 at 170. Pretty sure you could build a bitchin' S/SS car for the same money. I can't afford either so its 9.90 at 139 for me :)

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

There is really no advantage in SG running high MPH. Its all about the package. Better tree and closer to the dial wins every time. Its a numbers game. Dial It, Cut it, drive it!!!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Or buy!

I think you should look in the guide to what best suits what you want to do/afford/etc. What you DON'T do is take a car you are emotionally attached to and try and make it a stocker!! (ask how I know, lol!!)

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

You’ve got that right, search for a good rolling or running car. Starting from scratch you end up spending ridiculous amounts of money. I spent what I consider to be quite a lot but I still haven’t reached the deep end yet.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Dawson, ask my class competitor here on the west coast Bill O'Connor, I would be the first one to jump in and ask if you needed help in a flash if you were getting torn down or broke, or needed a tool or part I have, don't have or even think I could get my hands on, am a night owl and can be up all night and still race the next day.

He broke first Q-pass on Class racing day, and I found him offered to help him remove his transaxle, go to my storage for spares I knew I had, chase whatever we could find at trans shops, salvage yards, or auto parts stores just so he may be able to race on Sunday (I knew we could not get it done between 8:30 AM- Noon for Class but was still more than willing w/ my and his tools and to work all night if need be).

This last Sunday a Racer (from Bakersfield), needed a gear puller set not for his race car, but broke the column shifter on his ramp truck also race at, and his towed travel trailer. He had to be off the property by 10:00 AM Monday and it was 11:00 AM Sunday, I knew I did not have my tear down Crate with my specialty teardown tools in my pit space as it was a bracket week, but did have it 10 miles away from the track in my storage unit... zero hesitation and no racer in need announced I requested my wife go get it for him as I raced the next round of Spt/Pro, arranged a fellow Racer only running Spt to get it from her, and get it to him ASAP. At end of day I stopped by his pit, checked w/him, did it work, did he still need it? (He could mail it to me if he still needed it), he had it fixed and would shift into gear by then, and was on final reassembly, all I asked is he take 1 minute to personally thank my wife as she made the run. He did and was very thankful. Then I asked if he needed anything else or any help further.

We are family, of course if you needed tear down help lotsa people will offer. I would be first in that Line brother.

I will tell you 1 more thing. True that I had my machine shop assemble my new Ross Pistons, pins, rings, and crank in my freshly balanced shortblock. I was there for every step. But I took that home and did all other final assembly step and along the way acted like it was a reassembly after a teardown, going as far as to make up coat hanger header hangers I carry in a used paper towel tube so it makes a future teardown quicker I may or not someday face. Pics on my phone. Marks on all pulley's, sprockets, belts for fast and accurate timing realignment, the engine was installed w/ a degree wheel attached to it at TDC and an old timing belt cinched tight and clamped to keep all the sprockets in alignment so when the head gasket and head is set in place the decreeing of the cam takes minutes, final button up is fast, but done right. Make a plan, follow it through.

Jon Irving was amazed when the night before we left for Bakersfield in 2023 I said I was going to change the cam at his Dad's shop outside in the yard....I was less than a 2 hr job taking my time and dialing it in correctly and accurately and I could easily do the same in an hr or less. But I wanted to win a class race! It is an overhead cam though, a lot easier.

You can do it, practice it when not racing. I just took the time to assemble the car and engine myself so I can do it anywhere now. Mine is easier than most but I can have the head on the table and a Rotating assembly in your hand in probably an hour if you or someone helps me lift the head off of the block. Reassembled in less than 3. But, I carry all the tools and gaskets I need save my engine hoist. But my hatchback is full when it gets to the track. And there is a large pile in my pit space too! Ring compressor, puller set, tap/die set, spring compressor, torque wrenches, spare parts, degree wheel, spacer, pointer, and dial indicator, adj. solid lifter, lightweight springs, plus all the specific tools to pull the valve cover and perform the cam dialing in or cam lift measurements are all together in their specific boxes inside 1 milk crate and 1 plastic container and 2 tool trays contain every tool I used on the car over 18 months of prepping that car to race.

In other words I prepared well. Someday it may happen, but rest assured I earn a Wally or I win check... I wanna keep it! And you need help and I'm on the premises you have help brother!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I may be a rare breed though as I have a very low maintenance Stocker because I prepared it well, so I also crew for Scott McClay on his Comp C/ED entry because I get bored just making 1 or 2 passes a day. I need to stay busy at the track and you cannot run 1 of those cars alone. He needs the help. And I learn new skills.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

They must not run A windage tray

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Ya know Mike, I've had to think about how to respond to this for a couple of days. There's a few reasons why we all race what we race. When I first started racing I raced what I had. When I realized that I could make money doing this (50 years ago), I started racing with better equipment. It was dependable equipment that suited me and I could count on.
As much as I have liked all of my cars over the years, what they all come down to is that they are/were all just tools to do the job at hand.
Having worked on cars for my entire life, I can tell you that there are people who need to have the best Snap-on tools to do a job and there are people who can get the same job done with tools from Harbor Freight.

Just one more thing, I (me personally) will not cut up nice cars anymore.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

CGL, I typed that message before I ever made a hit in the car at the beginning of this year. My knowledge has grown and so has my circle of friends. At this point, between what I know and the friends I have, I believe I could pull something like that off now.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I believe you can also Dawson, and that last bit, the last pass I made Sunday I waited at least 5 Mins between water box and stage beams for my competitor stuck behind the ready line with his family crew all scrambling to get his car to fire (while the starter was pointing to his left wrist asking if I wanted to put him on the clock),as I said no...I want to race the man. If starter had ordered the staging I would have reluctantly, and I have not had a competition single since an alone in class pass at Englishtown, NJ in May 1995.

If I wanted to win races alone I would stay home. I list that race, but we raced side by side at finish line. I don't know anyone that wants fewer cars.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Make money doing this? I got that straightened out after the first year running super street in the mid 80’s. I think my partner and I earned $75.00 after 2 or 3 years of trying. LOL But we built the car for $8,000 towed on an open trailer and slept on cots or the back of my truck. We learned real quick only a handful of people back then could make a little money racing. Today very few if any can cover their travel expenses. I look at it more as a therapy from life’s pressures. Sort of like fishing or hunting were you spend a great deal for the same thing you could buy at the store for pennies compared to the cost you have invested.
I wouldn’t cut up nice cars either and I built mine with an eye on being able to return it to the street. (Helps the value in my mind) maybe that’s why I’m having trouble getting the 30” radials on there. :)

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I NEVER had delusions @ making money in stock...just wanted to go for the fun of it....I'm that guy you want in the other lane....run for fun

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Me too brother!!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Correct, just a scraper.