Re: Going DEEP....
 

My number one concern is courtesy staging. As long as that is in effect then I don't care how anyone stages. I occasionally still run Pro ET where there is no courtesy staging rule and the other guy is deep staged before I am out of my burnout. I also preferred the pre-2007 rule where the word "Deep" had to be written on the window so everyone knew what was going on.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Joe you really need to deep stage?,I ve run you a few times and I DONT WANT YOU TO GO DEEP.According to the slip you hit the tree fine.lol Come on man!
Deep staging was voted down a few years ago.I don't care what you do in other lane .Deep staging becomes a controversy when some one gets beat .Deep guy jerked me! Then DEEP gets beat Hey I wasn't ready! With no deep staging there is no controversy. Why don't all the guys commenting and not racing chip in buy a Funny Car ..NHRA would welcome another playa!

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Deep Staging would be just fine, if we were using handicapped pro .400 tree.....now that would be fun....Red lights would go down by 85%, and blocking would be a non factor. Would speed up the day too a bit.

Eric

Re: Going DEEP....
 

I raced at Numidia a few times in October with my sons. Many people deep stage there in footbrake. And yes, they go up and get their top bulb knocked out right away. Not attacking anyone's position, but who gives a ****? It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are concerned with what the other guy is doing.

Numidia turns off autostart when someone is a deep stager, the starter actually has to do his job, but even if they didn't, who cares. Autostart activates when three bulbs are lit. If your opponent was already deep when you approach pre-stage, you still have all the time afforded by autostart once you light the pre-stage bulb.

I really don't get it. You worry about you, I'll worry about me...

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Got in to this deep bs when it was raging a few years ago in bracket racing.
I called and spoke to Bob Borckmeyer @ Compulink there is a way to modify the system but there was no reason to refine it further. Maple grove tested it, there were problems no other Compulink customers were interested in the DEEP modification and NHRA was already done with it. Compulink has no interest.
With Port-A-Tree growing their influence am sure they would incorporate DEEP in to their system, now go out and sell it to track owners them maybe NHRA will look at it again.
In my opinion the only way for a DEEP modification to work and be FAIR for all is stage lights must appear the same no matter the staging technique: Top Bulb = Pre-Stage; Top & Bottom Lit = Staged.
Anything else can throw off the other driver.

When getting in to bracket racing I never intended to deep stage although many of the better driver were doing it. Spoke to a track owner who explained staging and that deep was actually putting the that driver at a disadvantage because it is the his responsibility to get in first to stage deep.
That was great until starters began holding the tree for those going deep. I got burned down more than once with starters waving me in to pre-stage before deep opponent lit any light, then let my opponent burn up my converter @3200 rpms taking his sweet time getting in deep. This happened more than once at the same track same starter against the same driver!! BS

Now we have nine second cars that need to deep stage for consistency. Fine! Last time I ran Pro was told to not stage first against those going deep as there is and agreement to LET them get in deep or they would get upset and complain. BS

This is all fine and dandy for bracket racing if that's how they want to do it at their tracks, Stock is a regional and national series there needs to be consistent rules fair and agreeable to all.

Stock Eliminator is a challenge, a higher level of foot brake drag racing with limited rules if we want to race we have to step up or be happy with where we're at.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

According to your last statement Mr. Fletcher, this subject should come to an abrupt end. Between you and Perrone the smoke and mirrors of this subject has become clear.

I'll worry about me and you guys worry about me and my world is way more fun.

I worry about you and you worry about you and I'll watch you race the next round.

If I want to confuse someone, I'll roll in both lights and continue through, then back into the bulb. I'll then try to go red and hope you do to, but by a worst margin. While going down track I will veer over close to your lane suddenly (to get a closer look for decision making). just before I get to the finish line I will slam on the brakes to smoke my tires violently. Get to the end of the track, turn around and stop to dump some fluids out, wait for my friends so I can give them some lead that I accidentally found and then proceed past the scales and back into them as I some how forgot to weigh. I'll get into a discussion about the validity of my fuel, start complaining about everybody else, how they are illegal and a bunch of whiners. I'll go back to my pit area in the back forty and wait for the papers to be served for my drug & alcohol testing with a beer in hand.

And that was just on my first time trial.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA I have a slow car.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Umm, Ron it's time for your meds.

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Ron, what tracks do you race at? I gotta see this!!

I've seen a guy get real honked off over an official starter call and back over the tree before, but you might have that topped if you can pull this off.

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amen....

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Fredo(Frank).....Don't ever takes sides against da Family again...

Re: Going DEEP....
 

x2 what Fletcher said.

Even in Top ET/Super Pro, it seems that many people don't understand how timing systems work and are overly concerned about what's going on in the other lane. I was footbraking in Top back in October, and guys were freaking out over the "N" after my dial-in, which turns off CrossTalk for me if I am the faster car. It has absolutely zero effect on the car in the other lane, regardless of the dials. There was a lot of arm-waving and words with the race director. The guy refused to run me until they took the N off my window (which was irrelevant on that particular run, since he was the faster car). :rolleyes: smh...


Not if people actually had a basic understanding of how timing systems work. If you're running a deep stager, "top bulb out" is Staged. It's not hard. Then again, Division 1, in their infinite wisdom, forced people to take DEEP off their windows. Instead, they added time to the stage-to-start, which slows down every single pair. May not seem like much, but seconds turn into minutes, and minutes turn into hours when you have a big car count. I'm not a fan of having the timing system control whether or not a (pre)stage bulb is lit. Stage bulbs should be lit if something is blocking the beam, and not lit if there isn't. Refer to the extensive discussions we've had on here over the year about the "instant red" glitch in the system that they refuse to acknowledge exists.

Don't get on the converter until everyone is staged. Even with two shallow stagers, if you stage on the converter, the other guy can let you sit for 10 seconds.

$.02,

Re: Going DEEP....
 

^^^Dan...KNOWS

This^^^

Re: Going DEEP....
 

I am always very concerned about what the other guy is doing. How else would I have known my opponent crossed the centerline and was driving up my hindquarters at Etown? How would a driver know when to "get out of it" if their opponent is broken in the other lane or when to hit the brakes against someone who has given him or her a comfortable allotment of finish line stripe if they weren't concerned with what the other guy is doing? How else would we know when to fist pump and wave to the national event crowd on red light victories? yowza

Hey JOE ZOOM, "I can handle things! I'm smaht!!"

Re: Going DEEP....
 

-=sigh=- Situational awareness is completely different from "Errmerrgerd! He's DEEP STAGING! Whatever am I going to do?!?"

Context matters.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

I try to go deep every time i go in

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Michael
Selective copy and paste is a liberal tactic :rolleyes:

The extreme example I used had nothing to do with my staging style, some complain I take too long! The example was meant to convey the human factor: The starter giving the advantage to one racer not only by holding the tree but ordering the shallow racer to stage and LETTING the deep racer burn his opponent down. Adding extra time to Autostart was a good compromise but that's not enough apparently.

Many of us have studied and understand the timing system, there is nothing in there for deep staging other than the blue light.
I actually spoke to Compulink years ago they had no interest in this unless enough tracks want it and can get paid for their programming time no different than anyone else. We live in a capitalist system where businesses respond to their customers. Racers are not customers of timing system manufacturers if tracks want the deep modification they should ask for for and get it, only problem with that is most of the country is NO BOX is there even the demand?

Re: Going DEEP....
 

As far as I am concerned, nothing should change in the start procedure. No D's or N' on the window matter. The procedure for staging should not change on bit. If a guy wants to go deep he better be ready to do his thing, not affecting anything on the starting line. It should be if the top bulb goes out, it does not mean anything. Racer is staged, let's race.

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How many times do you bump it in before you go red Mickey?

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Seems like the bracket guys are having a winter season conniption fit - while trying to get an accommodation from their fellow racers. Looks like most don't race nhra so not sure whether they belong in this discussion. But there are others so lets continue on.

Removing the autostart is a lame idea that has no merit. And you cannot race your lane until both racers are fully staged. Until then both racers deal with events happening in the other lane. Finally this eyesore of a debate is what led to the downfall of deep staging in the first place. So I'm all for this little scam running all winter long and will chime in from time to time.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

So blocking should be illegal? Interesting.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Yes when a hot chick involved!

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Simple solution, .550 light. Then I'd have no reason to deep stage.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

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Call it blocking, blinding or whatever you want, YES, it should be illegal !!

We have a 3 amber tree for a reason, watch it and learn it.

If ya want a pro tree go 'super-stop' racing.

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Nice, Bernie
That'll keep this goin'...

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It depends on who im up against

Re: Going DEEP....
 

It must be a Yankee thing, lots of great bracket racers around here and hardly ever see anyone deep staging. Only time I ever see someone do it is when Beard has one of his Gazillion dollar bracket races that draws all them hitters from up north trying to get a piece of the pie.
But hey whatever floats your boat, I'm like the guy up here that has won more Wallys than everyone else combined that has replied to this thread, I could care less if the dude in the other lane stages the thing backwards.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Bernie, was it you who had a Miller Lite contraption taped to the side of a helmet at Vegas a few years ago? That thing looked like it was 15" long.

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Oh Bruce, that would be impossible to be me.
Anybody that knows me understands that I would have nothing to do with Miller Lite.

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That's probably why you chose Miller Lite. Lol. But I do remember the remnants of a beer carton taped/glued to your helmet for some kind of blinder and always wanted to ask you about it.

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MMmmmm, do you remember what lane I was in, what time of the day it was and where the sun was?

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Can't guarantee it but pretty sure you were in the left lane. Also think the blocker was on the right side of the helmet. Tell me about that darn contraption, did it help with the sun? I need something like that for the first round at Gainesville.

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Nobody told me about this poll or sent me a ballot. Since you seem to know a lot about this poll, how many racers voted on it? What were the percentages? I never saw any results. Maybe you can fill me in.

Yes, because we all know NHRA always makes solid, well thought out decisions.

And to the person who always raced to the line trying screw the deep stagers, karma always catches up. :)

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Hey Toby.......Thanks for your support.....Joe Mocci

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Toby, check with Jody. I'm sure he remembers because he was not happy with the outcome. But like many people said at the time, he still continues to win races. You coming back anytime soon?

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Gotta love these deep staging guys with selective memories. http://www.dragracingonline.com/goindeep/iv_5.html

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Toby - I remember the poll - but not all (actually any) of the details - or how I answered. if I remember correctly it might've been as far back 2000-2004 somewhere in there.
There have to be others who recall getting it.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

Well, no kidding, obviously I knew about the poll *AFTER* it happened. Like I said, nobody sent me a ballot or asked me if I wanted to vote on it. And I never saw any results printed anywhere, did you? Like how many racers were polled, what were the totals for and against. All I knew is they were outlawing it. Did any deep stagers get to vote on it???

I think the main reason most people didn't like deep staging was because most of the racers doing it at the time were good racers who won a lot, so sure, it was definitely causing a lot of problems for the racers in the opposing lane.

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Every Stock racer on the planet knew about it in advance, including you. You guys got a fair chance and lost by a ton.

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So, you're calling me a liar, eh? I guess it's pretty obvious why I don't post here much anymore. I'm out.

Re: Going DEEP....
 

I have a normal stocker and also a slow 13 to 14 second FWD stocker with 26" front tires. For me, deep staging the slow car is about the only way to cut a decent light leaving on the last yellow. I normally try to bump in deep without cutting off the top light.
From my perspective from both sides of the fence, I can't imagine what difference it makes to the driver of the car in the other lane.