Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

If we could put yall in your own classes, we would. You have FX cars. That's where they belong. It's the only easy and fair solution. Btw, when we bought our old 396/375, it would run .50 under. 5 years and a ton of work and money later, we are close to 1.00, but we can't touch any new car even with NOS. See the problem here? I dont want to play the sandbag game you want to force on us. Id rather see who can make their fairly rated combo go faster. I only 34, and what I love about stock is the old muscle cars. It's like going to a car show where they put them on the back bumper. New cars have put such a bad taste in my mouth, I chose to support Toyota and Nissan for my family cars. People outside of racing ask me all the time about what car they should get. I guess because I'm a car guy. I haven't steared them towards the big 3 in 5 years. It's my own little protest. I'd say that's counterproductive to the factories trying to sell cars.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Since you seem to have a total handle on it, you fix it. Here are a couple of facts for you to work with. The new cars are not going away. NHRA has no interest on what is posted here. Some sort of representative thought process from a person or committee might get a look. Just my vain attempt to help as I have done since the 90's. And as I finally found out after several years of the SRA days, everyone is only interested in their own combo and has no interest in the majority of racers. So, you fix it. Tech@NHRA.com is where your plans should go. I'm sure they will welcome it with open arms.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

I know you have help fix a bunch of stuff that wasn't completely right. I'm pretty sure everyone does. Doesn't mean that you are not way off base here. But you not wanting to do anything that messes with your car is clear proof that what you said is true. You don't even want to go in your own class knowing you have a clear advantage over everyone in your current class. You would rather all of us change everything in stock that has been here forever. It's weird

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

I guess there are still at least 21 folks that actually give a s#$t!

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=44794

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Since you've been involved in helping improve stock since the 90's, did you have your opinion taken into consideration when the LT1 hit and you were driving your old iron? Were you wanting them in their own class back then? What's so different now other than the script is flipped and now you have the completely unfair advantage?

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Already have.
Of course I haven't seen one response or comment..Pro or con.

I've seen complex formulas..

I've seen massive changes to the class structure.

Makes you wonder what the heck is the real motivation is here for some folks..

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Well now that you mention that, I am thinking about buying it back. The combo has new aluminum heads and 10 less hp. My mistake, it is down 15 HP and the new aluminum heads are plus 5 which is a bargain. 135 lbs less than when I raced it. Wow, that is down to what my DP weighs in SS, and that old 440-6 made more power and a lot more torque. Watch for coming attractions.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Booooooooom goes the dynamite!

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

You should bring it back. I know the people I bring to the races would much rather watch it run than some car they see on the road 50 times every day. Problem being, even if you gave it back HP and it landed in the class your current car is in, it would still get destroyed heads up.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Not sure but I dont beleive that it was ever stated that new cars weren't faster than any old car. I believe that the case but if you get the older cars to where they can push the new cars to take hits wont it even up the field? Why is such a sin to have the new cars in stock? Lets see its 2014 why would anyone not want to see todays latest and greatest in what was started for present day drag racing? It has to be a mixed field for it keep the sport going. But hey I'm only 33yrs old and love to see new muscle cars put them on the back bumper and still run 150mph!:D

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

All it takes is somewhat realistic hp factors for the new cars. They won't "have to add weight and break parts", they move up to the classes they belonged in to begin with.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Old vs New has nothing to do with it. It's fair vs unfair. Just so happens ALL the new cars are unfairly rated by at least 15%

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

The solution is simple. A through F FX classes for cars that were made in 2008 and later without a vin number and motor combinations that were not in street cars. 1lb weight breaks, sticks and autos together, or not. They could stay in stock eliminator, but they could not beat up on the older cars in class or heads up. As for the Factory Stock race at Indy, that needs to be it's own race and have nothing to do with stock eliminator

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

^^^ this.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Would you be OK with this for all Stock classes?


How about the Hemi deal?


Who would put up the extra money for all this new stuff?

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

What money? We got more in 1990 than we do now. The Hemi cars in Super Stock can get horsepower, plus they have one of the toughest indexes in SS.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Back when the LT-1 cars were kicking our butts, (cost me a div. championship) the only people that were complaining about them were the people in their class and were getting beat heads up. Nobody else cared.
I think the new cars are neat, but they aren't stock eliminator cars. Like everyone has stated, put them in there own class and problem solved. What still cracks me up today is the fact that the rule book states "no porting or polishing of cylinder heads". All the new cars have CNC'ed cylinder heads. The manufactures just simply ignored all the rules in stock eliminator and built them how they wanted. Where NHRA really messed up is not telling them if that's the engines you want to run that's fine, but they are going to be superstock cars.
While I am at it, I begged for years for a weight break or three speed trans for the 67 and 68 camaro's with a small block 295/350. Since the 69-70 camaro with 295/350 could run a three speed trans. Always fell on deaf ears, till Chrysler didn't put a three speed in the guide for the drag Pak and GM and Ford did. All the new drag Pak owners cried and got a three speed rule change. No one cared until it affected the new cars.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

If everyone ran their car like this gentleman this thread wouldn't be necessary.


2 3695 E/S Luke Ubelhor, Bristow IN, '09 Challenger 10.103 11.65 -1.547

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

That's an interesting take on it. And it's hard to argue with. Other than some might take it as you saying new car owners arnt gentlemen.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Interesting, the 09 and 10 dragpaks came with either 6 speed stick or 5 speed auto..So I don't think any whining came from the first 150 cars...this must have been the 11 viper powered flat hood dragpaks.

I prefer to run my dragpak in superstock where it can be a decent car and fit, even when teenagers are running it. Stock is clogged with a crapload of very fast A cars, mostly camaros, a few vetttes and old Max Wedge iron. And a warmer track doesn't hurt a wide car a bit.

Many good suggestions posted, but I agree with Jeff, a bit too complicated for easy NHRA use.

Eric

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

There is nothing at all complicated about cars that were never production street cars having an "FX" added to their class designation to separate them from cars that were production street cars. It is the most simple, effective, and efficient solution, requiring the least amount of work, and the fewest changes. That's a fact, plain and simple.

It may not be what NHRA wants to hear, it may not be what NHRA and the OE manufacturers want to see done. That does not change the fact that reclassifying the factory race cars that were never legal for the street is the most simple, least expensive, most efficient, and most effective way to resolve the problem. It harms absolutely no one.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Ed, Luke is a very nice guy. That car of his has a 5.7 Hemi that before Indy was rated at 305hp. The automatic is rated at 421. Keith Lynch could of gone 9.80 in A/SA with one. Luke won't be hurt a bit.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Well, I started with a simple yes/no and expected comments before I moved on to something else constructive. But I apparently started with Genesis 1:1 "Let there be Light" and we have now moved to complete explanation of the total meaning according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I never knew we had so many Theology Students here. We flew right through the Old Testament and so far haven't begat anything. Sorry I have no Jewish, Arabian, Heathen, or Atheist sayings. I will work on that. But I have never been politically correct. Why don't somebody start a poll? Yes/No. No drama instead of Know Drama. I would but that is over my grade level.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

11 pages of discussion about Indy and the fact remains that the number 1 qualifier was almost one second further under the index than ANYONE else in a 1986 Chevy Pick Up Truck.You have to love Stock Eliminator.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

^^^^^ LOL. good one Mr. Jeff

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Indeed...!!!! Love to see it #1 again indy 15.
Very possible....

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Maybe this guy can figure it out?

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

If the auto version is already rated at 421, how does the 6.4 (added to the guide 8-19) get rated at 380? (probably going to run 9.80 at C/SA)

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Mike, it is dead stock, plastic intake & all, and 400 heavier than all DP's, 500 than some, other than the V10 DP. Body also dead stock. NHRA asked for showroom models, and the specs were provided. That car can be bought, vin number, title, license, off the showroom. All three showroom models are in the book, all dead stock. They are waiting for Ford & Chevy for the same.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

lol !!!!!

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

The street car versions of performance cars are cnc ported. The Mustang Boss 302 and many Corvette models have cnc heads right from the factory. Having that in Stock isn't a surprise.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

I agree and disagree with some on all of this, but I have drove some under factored and drove some over factored horsepower race cars in what little time I have race stock and super stock cars and been on the top of the qualifying sheet and been a alternate to. Where I think nhra went wrong was putting fuel injection and carb cars together awhile ago to get away of so many classes. When you get down to it no matter if you have FI, Supercharge, or Carbs we are fill ins just look at the schedule change at indy because of the weather for the pros nhra could care less what we all complain about on here. Is that going to stop me from racing no I love it to much! The 1 thing that people need to remember is this world is driven by money and right now the car companies are making money by saleing these cars so that what is driving this. Also I can say is no matter if I had the money to buy a new copo or dodge or ford I can honestly say I would not because I like the old cars and driving them. just my 2 cents

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Regarding 1lbs breaks....The cars in the fastest classes have to move up to 250lbs with half pound breaks when they change class, a full pound is too much. Maybe making the steps, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1.5, 2, and having roughly 200lbs steps for all of Stock. Combining stick/auto could condense classes even more. If there were fewer classes, there would be more heads up runs and maybe more sponsors interested in paying for class racing.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

The first drag paks came with a glide only, and were classified that way. The three speed rule was changed so they could run a three speed in the factory Shootout.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

It is interesting that some complain about horsepower rating when the entire HP rating system in out of whack..... As an example....our Super Stock car is rated at 356 HP....yet it produces over 300 HP more on the dyno (and still slow).....similar for our stocker. So, it is my best guess, that a 396/375 stocker is around 630 HP on the dyno, but rated ......what?

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Other than the intake doesn't it spec about the same? Same heads as 5.7 SS, same cam (within .011) bigger valves, same throttle bore, it is down a little on compression but it has 50 more cubes!
I'm still slowly building my Ford, but with a small valve 428 I'll be classed the same. I can't see the Ford running anywhere close to the 6.4 if the 5.7 can go 10.10 in E.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

Once again, after 12 pages of the same stuff, re-read Chuck Rayburn's idea on the first page. That is the answer (mine too). A few letter changes and they can be "FX","FI" or any other designation NHRA wants as long as they are not racing "heads up" with the older cars. In the event that NHRA does nothing to reclassify these cars and the "heads up" beatings continue (which they will in the current format), you all should start thinking about other ways to stay competitive (i.e.- lower the horsepower ratings on the older carbureted cars if they are forced to remain in their current classes.) I can't wait to see these very same posts in 10 years (if this stuff still exists) when the DP, CJ and COPO guys are complaining about the (then to be) new cars having too much voltage and making 1100 hp (and hooking) because they have bigger batteries and a 512 bit torque management processor with a 960 hz refresh rate.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

The older cars are at least getting that benefit as well. Its called Edelbrock Aluminum Heads (NHRA legal/approved).

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

It's a minimum 10HP penalty for the Edelbrock/GM head on a big block Chevy in Stock Eliminator. And as an example, the fastest 427/425 69 Camaros in the country, owned by the Sorenson Brothers, and Bobby DeArmond, have iron heads. I'm not at all convinced that the Edelbrock/GM head has done anything for the 427/425 we run. If we go back to the 427/425, it will probably have a set of Jimmy Bridges cast iron heads on it. That head seems to work for the 396/375 though.

Re: Stock Suggestion # 1
 

I thought taking 3 tenths off the indexes was supposed to fix everything? Fell for that one hook, line, and sinker didn't we?