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Ed,
Bret has nothing to offer this debate. He's just clowning around cuz he has no facts and wishes to be a pest. Its fun to read his posts. Don't take him seriously.

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Bruce do you run SS? Because the men you are chatting with both do. So i would have to say that yea Bret has a lot to offer to the debate. I also believe that years of racing would imply that he has some fact to what he is saying. Now I know not everyone has been racing since day 1 like some of you but hey whos counting years at this point.

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Sorry. I thought you were the gentleman that drives the white Mustang. My ignorance.

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The new cars impact both Stock and Super Stock. For that reason it is an open debate for all who race in those categories. And so far Bret has only offered comical posts and nothing of substance. I'm sure you can understand that.

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I'm sure you can understand it as well, as I get a chuckle everytime I'm read your post as well.

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"I'm" get a chuckle out of your posts as well

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Is that like lol? It's Mardi Gras down here. Yall should come. Cold Beverages and beads and trinkets. Somewhere we lost the Native Americans, Europeans decented people, concerts, Rod Stweart and other famous Americans and Non Americans. LOL

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Not trying to rattle cages here and yes I am just a bracket racer but is it really so outrageous in these times to contemplate the idea of eliminating heads ups in eliminations? Wouldn't that level the playing field while probably also upping car counts because I would be willing to bet there are more than a few low budget stock and super stock guys who don't race as often as they would like to because their cars are just not fast enough. Have the dick swinging contests in class run offs and make everybody have a dial in and a chance no matter who they are running . I fully respect and understand the idea of wanting to make your stuff run faster than everybody else when everybody is playing by the same set of rules but that doesn't appear to be the case. Look at Dempsey pendarvis run against someone that was posted earlier. He cut a .191 and just ran the other guy down. I'd be willing to bet you he didn't even look at the tree. He probably just staged and waited for the other guy to leave. That's not fair racing . Not bashing the new cars or owners. They are beautiful but they need to be factored correctly or priced correctly so that everyone can afford one. Gene schmaltz jr. 4928

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Wow, late to the party for this one. So, guess I can quit working on my Mustang now and give it to the wife for a street car? She's mad I was gonna make a race out of it, LOL!

On the bright side, minimal budget for a new car is what, $250K to run the fast classes? So, maybe we can run the slow classes for $125-50K? That ought to bring a bunch of new cars to the track pretty quick.

I need to go back to work.

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There is a solution to your thought Gene, it is called Super Pro Bracket. Not everyone can afford that either though.

If there was no other place to race without running heads up, I might understand, but there are plenty of places to run a budget car. Many associations on here and elsewhere have great races that are low key and some don't do heads up runs. There has to be a venue for at least some heads up races. There are few as it is now. Not everyone should expect to be able to go to a National and win class, just because they want to.

We don't have a new soft car and sure don't have the funds to go out and buy the latest new hot thing. We do however, sacrifice and plan to gain the parts necessary and test our car so that, at times, we have a shot at being competitive.

All NHRA needs to do is to do even a decent job a parity, so that everyone can compete and feel that they can have a chance if they make the right choices.

This does not apply only to the old car factor vs. New cars. Look at the tears being shed over the supercar classes. Most of those racers have spent six figures as a starting point.
If you pull heads up runs out of the equation, the performance part of the equation drops away. There are thousands of those races that exist already, we sure don't need another one. We just need to fix this process.

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I get where you and every other guy who is a fan of the heads up deal is coming from Jim. I would imagine that guys w pre 2008 cars don't take a week off of work and drive hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles to go to a national event just to win class and outrun somebody heads up. How many times have one of these new cars just been straight up outrun by an old car? If someone wants to say well heads ups are rare that's because guys w slow cars play the ladder game to avoid them. Why not have s/ss combo races w no hp factor? Run whatever you want. Call it the dick swinging nationals. There probably wouldn't be 10 old cars on the property. With nhra being the sinking ship that it is they ain't gonna do nothing to piss off the big 3 so them and their underrated cars ain't going nowhere. The 4th or 5th rd of a nat event that you took time off of work to go to and probably spent a couple grand to get to, is not the time you wanna see one of those guys come rolling by you at the 330 mark whopping all the way down the track. Now some of y'all look at that as a challenge but c'mon. Without horsepower being taken away the old cars can't compete, in a heads up anyway. Gene schmaltz jr. 4928

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NHRA 2014 Rule Book

Page one, second sentence: "Keys to the success have been NHRA'S focus on racer participation at all levels and providing venues to race (here comes the important part) with rules designed to provide fair competition and to enhance safety."

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Larry, don't you know it's crying to expect a fair and level playing field.

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The real answer to all this debating about "hp", "new cars", etc. is so simple that most of you will never agree with...run off dial in...no heads up runs in class. By adopting this rule change you have just made my Max Wedge competitive with all the new "factory" cars...period!


Start throwing your spears and arrows.

JimR

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Jim, that's bracket racing. You can do that at your local track on most every weekend. One of the reasons I race stock is the challenge of building a class car to run faster than my competition. When the sanctioning body deliberately gives your competitors huge advantages in horsepower rating, all the while their mission statement talks about fair competition a lot of us who have lots of time and money invested are going to raise hell.

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Well stated....that statement says it all and it's a fact, not an opinion.

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The greatest irony of this whole thread is the complaints are all about the HP ratings that NHRA put on the NEW cars that everybody KNEW were coming. NHRA has historically always factored NEW cars soft. How do ya think it feels to guys like Capt. Jack and I when a 25/35/40 year old combo that didn't even exist as far as NHRA is concerned just pops up in the guide with a HP factor that it would have never had if it was put in the guide as a new car! Or a combo that has existed for years just manages to circumvent NHRAs own AHFS system and gets a 20% HP reduction in one shot!
HEY BUDDY!!!!!!! Don't bother circling the wagons, we've already been scalped!!!

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Greg, I knew the reference to bracket racing would be the first objection and I can't disagree but if you have shoe polish on your window...you're bracket racing! The other alternative is to run off National Records and we've tried that and it didn't work.

We are not going to get a fair shake from the NHRA, it's not their priority and we've flogged the Max Wedge's, 427" Camaro"s and Ford's to the Nth degree...there's no more hp left to find while the new cars are full of potential. So, how do I become competitive with the new cars that are in my same class and can run about a second faster?

The new cars are here and they ain't going away and without taking the body off the frame I can't be competitive BUT if I could keep my dial in going into a class race I could be competitive.........just thinking!

JimR

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????

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My goal now is whenever I have a heads up or class race with one of them is to make them run fast enough to get horsepower.

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Respect!

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Gump, do the 396 and 350 Copo cars have to run the 12 bolt or can they run the Ford 9"?

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They come factory with the "corporate" 9".

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C'mon, say it...... a FORD 9".

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It's kinda hard for GM guys to use the F word. LOL!

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Me too. If I hop mine up, and leave on time (I'm old), in decent ( not mine shaft) I can make one have to run in, or very close to, HP on Tues territory to win that round.

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That sounds like a much better plan! I have a lot more respect for a guy who does something about an issue.

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Can't do it! The best you will get out of me is a Strange 9" !!

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Oh oh, I'm building my Ford with a Strange 9", does that mean I have a Chevy rear end?

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Oh here we go......
9" rear
top loader 4 spd
dist in the front
equally spaced intake ports
firing order

C'mon join in, let's play "what else has chev copied off of ford but the fan bois won't admit"?

There's more but I don't want to say them all...cam plate instead of a button...see, it's easy!

Who's next?


(they didn't copy ford on the gov money, they copied dodge on that one hehehe)

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I see the Bow Tie folks dumped the 450 inch motor? I'm hearing all kinds of rumors, but I don't want to promote any tainted information. Pretty reliable sources though. I'm sure the Shadow knows. Now is the Shadow gonna speak up?

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Jeff the big 3 had a pow wow at Pomona and they agreed to limit the cubic in to 445 including overbore to be able to run the factory showdown

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When's the last time f... Won a national event in pro stock ��

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The low comp 63 Max Wedge went from 415 to 405 to 415 to 409 in 50 years. The big 3 were pretty close before the new cars. There isn't a single 63 Max in the country that's a threat to any record or heads up win, those who run them only do so because they love them. It's all politics.

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DRCE based DRAG RACE CLEVELAND ENGINE :eek:

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So, it's not based on the BBC, which was around before the Cleveland?
Maybe there was Clevelands in '64/'65, and I just had not seen one.
Were you racing, or even around then? LOL

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Can you insert the 9" 12 bolt conversion pumpkin in these and use the GM gears?
Or does it come that way?
Or must you use the Ford design pumpkin?

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Don't be bitter or we'll sic a Glidden on ya. LOL! Ford's won enough PS in both HRA's, now we're just letting ya catch up. (What's the only ps to never lose a race in it's complete racing career? (hint, it had ford on the front and rymed with hairmont. Bwahahaha)

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Chebby invented it, ford perfected it.

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Yeah. That's the ticket. LOL