Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

When time permits, I'm definitely going to look into locking my seat in place, ie: taking the slide track function out. I rolled up to the lanes for round # whatever at Chicago earlier this year and got out of the car. When I went back by the driver's door, I noticed that the seat was significantly closer to the steering wheel than it was when I got out. A piece that locks the track in a given position had broken and the seat was free to just flop back and forth, although the springs kept it biased forwards.

I was able to make the run, as I'm tall and push the seat all the way back. Had a shorter, un-named friend of mine been driving, we would have had a problem...LOL...

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Chad,

Do the shipping weights for these new cars include the discarded A/C units and cruise control, etc.? (I bet the 69-71 ish weights are for a stripped down car.)

What NHRA did not do was reflect the weight reduction of items such as aluminum brakes and things. The easiest way to eliminate the seat weight advantage is going back to every car must be nose heavy. (Anyone recall when that was lifted from the rule book?) It would eliminate all the trick stuff advantage. Does a guy with a 1970 six cylinder Maverick really need $3,000 of aluminum brake pieces to stop? No, but he does to run with the others in his class if they loose the weight there.

I could never understand how NHRA and IHRA let guys race without fire jackets or pants. If your V/SA car is hit by an A/S car and pinned to the wall, don't the flames burn you too while you cannot get out?

Look at some of the early Top Stock images. The A/B/C Stock Eliminator guys had jackets while the Top Stock guys had short sleeve shirts. For those of you not wearing fire resistant pants, I'm going to help at the hospital again this weekend, come along with me and see if those bozo nylon pants help you at all. We won't even get into back/neck injuries...

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Hey Dan would that little guy be SB?? LOL.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Several years ago I welded tabs on the two sliding sections of each track and ran a bolt through the tabs to lock the seat. If the seat has to move, remove the bolt on each track.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I've been saying it for years, But it's a sad State of affairs when someone has to get killed to change the safety rules. I know of very few racers that will complain when they update the rules to make his car safer.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Steve, evidently you missed the guys complaining about being forced to wear real pants in Stock, as opposed to putting sweat pants or pajama pants on over shorts. Not all of them, but plenty of them. I wish it was unusual to have racers complain about safety improvements, but that has never really been the case.

Motorsports is continually in that sad state of affairs, at least half of our safety rules are written in blood, it has been that way for as long as I've been following motorsports. It is rare when it is different.

I can certainly see why people would be unhappy with the idea of ultra trick lightweight expensive aluminum fabricated seats in Stock Eliminator. Given the fact that there are a lot of truly purpose built race cars in Stock that can add or remove enough weight to legally run three classes I'm not sure I buy the issue about being able to move weight. However, those sheet metal seats do look very out of place in a Stock Eliminator car.

There is probably a way to reach a "happy medium", with something like a fully upholstered and cushioned aftermarket racing seat with an actual frame and springs, as opposed to the sheet metal fabricated seats with a layer of material on them.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

The progression of safety issues in Stock and SS have, as Alan said, have come via blood, major incident or by stubborn individuals like Bob Mazzolini who put a dual master cylinder in his Max Wedge car and dared them to say anything.

How stock is stock? Will the NHRA let me do away with the required bench seat in my '64 Plymouth for non-stock bucket seats. Will the NHRA make a deal with a seat maker and therefore control the price of the seats. I know some of you will ask me how much I'm willing to spend to possibly save my life but I can't spend $2,500.00 for a pair of seats at this point.

Does the spectator (those few that watch) care about what seats are in Stockers? What performance advantage do safer seats give me?

Lastly, is this really a problem that needs to be addressed or (as usual) are we beating a dead horse here?

JimR

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Like i said before if they pass the rule to allow a racing seat let it be up to the driver if he or she wants one then everybody can be happy.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Jim, look at my initial post. The seats I bought for my son's car looked a lot like stock seats cost around $220 each and were much better made than the old stock seats. For me to find a pair of 1970 Camaro seats, buy new foam, new springs, new covers and pay someone to upholster them would be around $1500. I would not favor allowing racing seats like the Kirkeys because they look nothing like stock seats. The procar seats I bought have tubular steel frames with steel springs and two locks on the sliders. The seat backs lock much more securely than any of the old stock seats.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

i NEVER go for allowing any new aftermarket parts in stock > however in a rare case i think i agree with greg... IF IT IS STOCK APPEARING and weighs within 10% of the seat it replaced i think i could agree !

jack

greg we are not worried about andrew... its your big ***** we think might break a seat :)

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

That's cold, Jack. :D

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I might get trashed on this one…however, I am looking at this subject from a safety perspective based on many documented incidents that have taken place on racers such as Woodrow, Dan Fletcher and others.

On my spare time, I did some research on many of the SAE papers written as regards to crashworthiness and design of automotive seats. In addition, I talked to some of the seat engineers, including the on-site Recaro engineer that happens to have an automotive seat design background.

Summarizing all the research and discussions with the engineers, I believe that due to the performance of the cars in Stock class, NHRA should change the rule to allow either the replacement of seats with OEM seat from cars built 1982 or later. They should also allow the used of some seats that have an OEM “Stock Appearing” configuration for the year used aftermarket seats from a limited group of companies such as Recaro, Corbeau and Procar.

What I mean by “Stock Appearing”, is if the OEM seats reclined, the replacement seats must also recline. OEM seats and mounting frames built after 1982 meet more rigid design requirements for frontal and side impact than earlier specifications and the mounting and in addition, use a seat back brace.

He was surprised there is not a specific requirement for the use of a seat back brace. He also went to a database and shared a list of present and past OEM cars with seats designed and built by Recaro that may be found on wrecking yards. The list is as follows:

• Audi: Sport Quattro, S3, A4, S4, RS2, RS4, A6, S6, RS6, TT, R8
• BMW: Mini
• BMW: 2002Tii, E30 M3, E34 M5
• Cadillac: 2009 CTS-V
• Chevrolet: Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe
• Dodge: Dodge Magnum R/T, Viper, All SRT Models
• Fiat: Coupe Limited Edition, Turbo Plus
• Ford: Escort GT, Ford Focus SVT, 2000 Mustang SVT Cobra R, 1979 Mustang Pace Car, 1980 Cobra
• Honda: Accord Type-R, Civic Type-R, del Sol, Integra Type-R, NSX, Odyssey, S2000
• Jaguar: XK8/XKR
• Lancia: Lancia
• Mazda: MX-3, MX-5, RX-7, RX-8
• Mercedes-Benz: 190E, 500E,
• Mitsubishi: Lancer Evolution, Mirage
• Nissan: Nissan 300ZX
• Pontiac: Trans Am (Recaro Model)
• Porsche: 911, 911 GT2, 911 GT3, 914, 944, 928, Cayman
• SAAB: 900R 1996
• Saturn: Ion
• Subaru: Impreza STi
• Toyota: Supra, MR2
• Volkswagen: Polo, New Beetle, Golf, GTI

In addition, their main competitor in the automotive business is Lear Siegler. He said the Lear Siegler seats can be found in many of the 1982 and later GM F-Body cars, Buick T-Type and Grand Nationals, early Mustang SVO’s and Cobra Models. The Lear Siegler seats also meet or exceed the SAE specifications.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

ouch !

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Jack, that's kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

SSDiv6 it's good to see someone using their brain to decide on aftermarket seats.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I am for keeping stock seats in stock.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

For safety reasons, I would like to see the option to use a later model OEM seat, or aftermarket stock appearing seat with a seat back brace.

I recall the OEM seat on a 1977 model GM Stock eliminator failing during a launch due to the reclining mechanism failing. The reclining mechanism was locked with bolts after the failure. Eventually the seat frame fatigued and failed again. This particular car was converted to a race car since new and never saw the street. Still, the seat frame and mechanism failed. Just imagine the condition of cars that were originally manufactured in the 1960's and early 1970's and the condition of the seat frames, structure and mechanism.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I am with Ken Keir, leave the rule alone. I have a 1969 a/s and a 1986 g/s car, I feel that as with any item on my car , I will take the responsibility myself to check every thing on my cars to keep them safe and functional. If my seat tracks need work, it is my deal to fix them.

With a correctly mounted harness and a stock seat that is supported correctly, I have no safety concerns with my 1969 seats going 130mph.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

I have my seat back supported by a brace comming off the rollbar cross tube. That does not allow the seat to move at all.
I would not be against updated fatory seats allowed in older cars. But really dont like the idea of the light weight racing seats.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

greg... the pot is definitely calling the kettle black... but the pot has a roll bar brace, a full solid SW front seat and... a blistering 1.80 60 foot > im good

but watching how great yours & andrews cars leave, well i worry about my friends :)

jack - sorry i just couldnt resist

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Jim, the photo below is right out of the 2010 rules book.

On a side note you can see it says removable steering wheels permitted, of which I have one. You can have one as small as a 11 inches in diameter. Man, that's not even close to being stock looking, I guess we should get rid of that rule.

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

[/QUOTE]

Jim, the rulebook section was changed via an amendment dated April 15, 2010.
According to the amendment, it says "Model", therefore it can be interpreted that it applies to all Savoys models. :)

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Good luck trying to get away with that Jim

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Bob,

You know I wouldn't try to push the rules........gotta go, UPS just delivered my acid dipped bench seat!

Thanks for the info guys.

JimR

Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock
 

Here ya' go Jim. I'm proud of ya. That's the way it's supposed to be done in Stock.

Subterfuge and misdirection....