Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

this is not i am telling you what to do but, the last few years i have been fishing and hunting and playing football baseball working taking care of my dad you all know life priorities,try it some time and your perspective and everyones perspective on class racing will change! for me to do it like i used to 10 to 12 nhra races a year with my present mind set toward nhra things would need to change, i still have that fire inside me that wants to do nothing but dragrace but nhra "enhanced" me in 2002 and it changed me forever, as for bracket racing get off your high horse and this goes out to all stock super stock racers "WE ALL ARE BRACKET RACERS", every one needs to go to your local tack and look at bracket cars today there is no cheap cars anymore, to think week in week out bracket guys are cheap is an insult to all of them! i do plenty of work on those cars and engines and they spend five times as much as us s/ss dicks! so dont try to minimize bracket racing it is what it has been for 40 years in s/ss and i think it is time for some kind of overhaul.

p.s. you do bracket race all the time,

p.s.s in 22 years of racing my stocker i have had exactly 2 heads up runs during eliminations .........

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

How did you like them runs? .. reading your posts.. you dont have to answer..

I think it would be a big mistake to take the headsup runs out of the eliminator..even if there are alot of issues right now i must say....it would make it much less interesting for everyone.....to race in bracket mode all the time..500 pounds in the trunk..Nah..i think alot of us still is searching for that .01 here and there..thats why we do it...to let those that dont like doing that tell us it's only a bracket race is just not right...and also now with contingency's constantly going away or atleast having problems paying up...would really that many travel and stay away all those days to run it as a pure bracket race in the long run? I mean..Whats the point?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Alan, the only thing that I am asking for suggestions about in this thread is the instant trigger. Maybe I STILL haven't made myself clear. I have more that a few problems with the AHFS and the auto give backs but all I am trying to concern myself and anybody listening with right now is the "high end" (better words?) trigger. I think that we agree (imagine that) that any combo that goes -1.40 needs a hit. I think that we can ALSO agree that SOME -1.40 hits need to be reviewed by a knowledgable person or board of people (Henson). How about if the first -1.40 hit stays at 3.25% as it is right now but the second hit doubles it to 6.5%? Now that is a simple enough change to get NHRA to go along with if enough of us can agree to it.
In regards to your 425/427 and 255/350, I've always had the thought that when you give a combo to a lot of smart people it is going to get beat up. The 255/350 has had the snot beat out of it because it has been under a microscope for years. Heck, in the 80s Oldsmobile gave a bunch of real smart guys new Oldsmobiles and even the 307 (in stock) got beat up. NHRA recently gave it back HP and it's still not a great combo mainly (in my opinion) because most of the smart guys moved on. Right now both of the 375/396s, any 305s, the LT-1s and LS-1s are getting "smarted up".
Just wait until the new CJs and the Challengers get in the hands of more that 1 or 2 "smart guys". That is going to be when you will see why I am so concerned about the "high end" trigger. I don't want to wait 15 years for those combos to get in line.
Jimi, I hope that your Dad is doing well. I really miss you guys (but you're still a snot nosed kid!). I do enjoy bracket racing my stuff whenever I can (I was at the Beav yesterday) but I don't want to do it at NHRA events (ya snot nosed kid).
And Captain Jack, "The AHFS will NEVER work" (your words)! Well it seems to work pretty well for you. AHFS (automatic help for slugs) gave you back 15 HP as I recall. It seems to have made your combo work. And as you're the only one running your combo you can pretty much control your own destiny. I just thought that I should bring that to your attention.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

There is alot of truth in this statement. Honestly, there are no cheap race cars, period. There are many that may not fit our paradigm of what we believe a race car should look like. Then again, who looks at a Neon, a 66 Plymouth wagon or a Cadillac, does that just scream race car, LOL! Only to those of us that enjoy "Stock" racing.

I think the real dilemma here. If you use the 1.40 under to factor a given combination. Granted, say one person builds this car and it's a killer. IF it's a one off combination, that's not really an issue, other than someone else might try to put one together and it may not come close to duplicating the time. On the other hand, how does this equate to older established combinations, where there are potentially dozens of cars. All running at different levels of the index. You factor that combination, you take care of the fast cars but you also just legislated a number of people out the class or force them to join the ranks of the high dollar money racers to bring their combo in line.

If a car bombs the index, suggestions have been, add weight, move THAT car up a class, keep the dial ins, go back to running off national records. Maybe this is another thought, use the index to determine qualifyiing, if class is not contested. If class is contested," it's heads up, run what brung, hope you brung enough", hate using the Pinks line but it fits. Then run the eliminator off the national record, you kill the record, automatic teardown for legality, you own a new record as well as a Wally. This would force everyone to run their combos all out. You find out who's got a strong car and who doesn't real fast.

As many have said, you'll never get rid of the sandbaggers or the soft combinations.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy it seems to me if you drop the bar lower people will adjust accordingly. The only way to stop (some of) the sandbagging is to use the 1,000' clocks. and the problem there is different cars, engine combo's etc. with the same (honest) ET have different 1000' times. Cars are set up for the quarter mile.
Maybe take away the instant thing and review the cars more often.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

No, we do not bracket race all the time.

I used to bracket race. I grew to hate it, and quit. It only costs a fortune to go fast and win if you want it to.

We've had several heads up races, win, lose, or draw, they were fun, and the best part of all of it. No heads up on Sunday is the absolute worst idea possible.

You CAN spend as much as you WANT on anything. I've built plenty of good race winning bracket engines for a lot less than a really good competitive Stock Eliminator engine in a hotly contested class, with a fairly popular combination.

To run AA, A, B, or C, you MUST have a serious piece, that will cost you plenty, regardless of make. Unless you intend to go home every time you get a heads up race. I can build a big block Chevy bracket engine that will run 9 flat in a 2500 pound car for 1/2 what you can build one that will run 1.1 under in Stock.

Oh, and I hunt and fish fairly regularly. Went fishing last Sunday, can't go today due to other commitments. Hunted every weekend in February but one.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Again Billy, if you lower the trigger, it will hit the common and popular cars FIRST. If you are worried about Cobra Jets and Challengers, count them up, and see how many there are. Do they outnumber LT-1 and LS-1 cars? No. Do they outnumber 396 and 427 cars? No. Do they outnumber early Hemi and 440 cars? No. Do they outnumber the Ford big block cars? Not right now. So who would get hit first? Who slows down first, because they get hit? Keep slowing them down and who is there with enough power to make the other cars have to run for a win?

Simple math and logic here Billy. It takes a 1.2 under car or better to have any chance to make a 1.4 under or better car have to show any of its potential. Hit the 1.2 under car and it becomes a 1 under car, then who will make the 1.4 or better under car run? Lower the trigger to 1.2 under and the guy with the 1.2 under car won't even run 1.2 under 90% of the time or better, in order to avoid getting hit.

Lower the trigger and math says that odds are you hit 9 out of 10 cars running 1.3 under or less before you hit the few 1.4+ under cars you're after. Hit the ones you're not after once and the ones you are after will never have to show their hand.

The law of averages is against your idea of lowering the trigger to get a few fast cars slowed down.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I truly do not have an agenda, I like drag racing. I hate seeing cars dump at the top end in a so called performance class like Stock. I hate seeing the .90 class cars die on the line and then come roaring back to life. From a spectators point of view these types of racing is killing the sport.

My solution is simple and would be very effective.

1) Eliminate the trigger and let them run out the back door
2) Record ALL runs and their incrimental times.
3) Have class eliminations at every race.
4) Re-evaluate all data after one year.
5) Reset the AHFS from acquired data.

You will be kind of back at square one, but with all the combos more in line of their true HP rating. Also after running the cars all out for a year, no one will want to come back to the "old way."

If someone wants to sand bag, they will get caught up with it when an opponent pushes them. Then their cover will be blown by the incrimental times.

This is just my opinion as a spectator and true drag racer.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Ron,
People have been dumping and sandbagging for years. All they'd have to do to defeat your idea is do it for one more year. And if they knew they'd be re-evaluated in a year, they'd be fools not to sandbag and dump for one more year.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I understand what you are saying Alan, but with class at every race and the recording of all runs and their incrimental times, their true performance will come out in a year. To sandbag correctly under this format one would have to do it from the starting line to the finish line or the incriments will get them.

Either that or NHRA needs to make all Stock Eliminator a CIC race.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA entertainment from the sidelines

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Ron, I watched several rounds of class last year. And I saw cars I know were fast and could win "take a knee" to avoid getting hit. The cars most likely to do this are the rarer cars with the capability to go 1.4 under or more.

NHRA is never going to be bothered with incrementals. If they were, they'd have used the suggested format racers offered, instead of what they've done.

I really wish there was an easy solution. Because the ONLY solution NHRA will be bothered with, if they will be bothered with a solution at all, is an easy one.

The problem with a CiC race in Stock is all combinations in a class are not equal, which is why the AHFS is necessary to begin with.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Alan, if they do not use incrimental times then it can never be controlled. Incriments show where a driver is lifting, whether it be at 1,000 foot mark or the 330 mark. NHRA already has the incrimental times on the ET slip, they just would have to start looking at them closely and start evaluating what is going on.

The best part of my solution is that people are going to be running it out the back door again, like it is supposed to be. If they lift, the incriments are going to show it. NHRA then just calculates what the run would have been and presto, you have solid data for the 'Big Re-Evaluation"

I am just tired of watching so much bagging in the eliminator. It sucks, and I know that it is not fun watching or doing

Ron Ortiz
U/SA not having fun

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Ron,
I think everyone who has actually studied the problem agrees that the only to make it work is to use incrementals.

I just do not think that anyone is going to fall for the "free pass" to run it out the back door for a year, when they know they're going to get hit for at the end of the year. "Punishment" is punishment, whether it comes the next Tuesday morning, or the next January 1st.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy, 10 pages, 9 & 1/2 o/t, and what do you have?

Reason ?

Nobody cares about U/SA

Wait until the new CJ's and Mopars start running roughshod over everyone in the higher classes.
Bring this thread back then. Watch the response you get.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

That works except for the single classes they would never have to run hard and never get hp.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy,

The "trigger" method is invalid. To determine if a combo is bogus, you dont use the fastest run of an individual to compare to the average. The correct way would be to use the average run of a combination to the average standard in SS or S. Not that hard to do and much more accurate.

The second problem is that the corrective action is too small or not often enough. If a car runs 1.4 under firstly you must determine if it is due to outside forces, like AIR? When I say air I am talking about barometer, temperature, and humidity. (I ran on a 100% humidity day at Indy and that was unbelievable)

Fix it? Run a curve of an engine combo and compare those "like" engines to an average. Correct all runs like we do on our weather stations. Then we must increase the correction factor from 4HP to a much larger number.

Mark,

My family knew Marty Robbins very well. He was a great guy. My ex-sister in law was married to his steel guitar player who won best band of the year in the 1982(?) Grammys. I used to go back stage to the Grand Ole Oprey, but since I dont listen to country music I was like a Pontiac guy at a Chevy race! ;).

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

The least popular combo in a heavy populated class will get hit first, as there are no slugs to lower the average, trust me I know. That is if you are serious about trying to win and not just save your combo for the time in the bracket race that you may draw a heads up run. If the combination is popular there is always the slow cars to help keep it in check. Then again if the same popular combo are all fast well then I guess it needs to be adjusted also.
Look at the 454 425 it has been hit with 11 already this year and has since hit the trigger three or four times, that’s another 4 before Indy.
I think the best solution would be all runs count 1000 foot increments. And count the refactored tracks at their adjusted factor. Just my opinion

Colin

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Before I start, I am in the middle of a stocker build because I want to get into the next level of drag racing (I have been racing for a long time and have been a drag racing "fan" since the early '60s....) I have read and reread the rulebook til you can see through the pages and tried to keep track of the changes as they occur....with the combo I am working on I am just looking at getting into the field so I can run eliminations, I could care less about running for a "record" or impressing anyone but myself....here are my thoughts on the AHFS.....First off it only affects class eliminations and heads up runs during class eliminations.....if you have pride in what you do and love the challenge of getting the utmost out of your combo then go for it and enjoy your own rewards.....I know racers who look for expired records to "get their names in the book" and you only need to be .5 under the index to get it....I feel that should be changed to 1.00 seconds under to set a record and 1.25 would trigger a review.....since 1 run by one individual will not cause a "hit" to the combo that won't occur unless multiple runs by more than one person with the same combo happens, yes it will trigger an instant review but nothing will happen if the average doesn't warrant it....if it is an odd combination and there isn' a bunch of them then it will be at NHRA's discretion to decide what to do....and here is what will really yank the guys who work hard to bomb their class( they already won class and have a trophy) NO MORE HEADS UP RUNS DURING ELIMINATIONS !!!!!....everyone works hard to qualify and get into the show...give all of them a shot at winning the event....I wouldn't enjoy going into a round knowing I pretty much had no chance (heads up)....I am a pretty likeable person and I race because I love the sport.....winning or losing doesn't ruin my day, but all I want is chance.....

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Alan, if they do not go for the "free pass" thats their fault. They are going to get hit regardless. Increments are for the whole track, not just the 1,000' to finish line.

Art, if it is a singles class, it does not matter, no one else is in it either. The AHFS is for heads up runs, it does not matter any other time as it is off your dial .

Ron Ortiz
U/SA free ride

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Very true the correction should bring the 1.4 car to at least the 1.15 triger. with the current system that is not possible.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

They do not run class often enough to talk about. And when they do, if there is inclement weather, the first thing to get canceled is class eliminations. So the idea of removing heads up racing during final eliminations is ludicrous, unless we want to completely remove performance as a part of Stock and Super Stock. More often than not, class is NOT contested at National Events. Removing heads up races from final eliminations is a bad idea. It's the last thing that should be done.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Ron, if they don't go for the free pass, there's no data to use to hit them. And the smart racers are not going to go for the free pass.

Forget incrementals. It's not going to happen. They do not like accumulating and compiling the data they do have. They sure won't add to that load.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Now you know why car counts are falling like a stone, the economy won't stop a diehard racer....knowing that there will be a couple hitters in your class at an event you want to enter will make you stay home...I have seen it a lot....heads up during eliminations HAS to go, it has no place now, NHRA wants to grow and it will if they look at the facts that speak for themselves....go run heads up at a heads up event, they are popping up everywhere, NHRA took on the dialing system years ago to "level the fields" and make policing the classes easier and the way it is now is not level....this would eliminate a lot of deep thinking about what to do with a combo....maybe I am looking at this backwards Alan, maybe they should eliminate the dialing and run everything heads up again....oh, that's right they used to do that and that is how we ended up with PROSTOCK

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

The economy WILL stop a diehard racer. No money = no racing. I know plenty of people who have been sitting it out over money. Car counts are down due to the economy. Even people I know who are behind when it comes to HP will go race when they can afford it. Right now, they can't afford it. I do not know a soul who has stayed home fearing a heads up run. If you're smart, with a little luck you can work the ladder to avoid a heads up.

No, we do not have to eliminate heads up runs in final eliminations. It's the last thing that should be done. And it will not help car count or spectator count. Heads up no breakout racing is one of the few things all fans do understand.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I have to agree that it is about time to remove the trigger and see how fast some cars are actually capable of going.
The quality of drivers is better than ever today.If someone can run 1.7 under,and the other car can only run 1.2 under,the faster car will get a decent light and drive the stripe by few hundreths or less.On Drag Race Central,the results "look" like it was a close race,but in reality,it wasn't.
Also,I propose that all HEADS UP RUNS be run on a .400 pro tree,or maybe even an INSTANT green.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Easier said than done.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Alan, if they do not use incrementals, then the problem will never be corrected. There is no other way to guage a cars performance.

Additionally, how many racers that are trying to "save" their combo are set up slow at the 60' to 660".
They're not, they cut back on the top end. So much for avoiding the free pass

Ron Ortiz
U/SA tick, tick, tick

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Not really. Before we got to where we ran decent, we learned to move around on the ladder to avoid heads up races. And we did not get a heads up race we did not want for a long time. Now we run pretty decent, and we do not worry so much about a heads up race. You can work the ladder. It is just another racing skill.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Ron, once again, I agree, without incrementals the system does not work, it has too many holes. But I also think NHRA is very unlikely to use incrementals, ever. They do not have to, and no one is going to force them to. It would cost them time and money, neither of which they have any desire to spend on either class.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Mark, believe it or not, I'm not concerned about U/SA. Go reread my comments from the beginning. I have used Bobs combo as an example as it is the most graphic and the most current. I also have never had a heads up run in eliminations and that's a lot of rounds.
Alan, I agree with cwigle about the more obscure combos in the more popular classes getting hit first. The more of a given combo, the more likely that combo is to have more proportionately slow and fast cars. The Hemis and 6 packs seem to have proven this.
How about this, instant hit the cars off of the 1/8th mile indexes. It's simple and it won't affect any of the other triggers. For that matter, let's look at putting all of the triggers at the 1/8 mile. Also, I like Beardies idea about weight in the cars. If for example, a car enters a race classified as a AA/SA car and on it's first qualifying pass goes across the scales at A/SA weight (8.00-8.50) then give the driver the option of running A or taking the weight out of the car to make AA. On his second qualifying pass if he stays in AA and the
car weighs more that 8.00 lbs then the driver is DQed for the race.
Ron, as much as I like the CIC thing it won't work in Stock and SS.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy, recent history proves my point for me. Here's an example: How many times in the past 5 years have the 396/375 cars been hit compared to the several cars in the classes that there are fewer of? Those 396/375 cars were hit because they triggered an evaluation by going more than 1.15 under. So, what will happen when you lower the trigger to 1.2 under?

If you have 2-3 cars running a combination that is capable of easily running 1.4 under, and and 25-30 cars running a combination that will run 1.2 under, the 25-30 cars will get hit first, and more often, because one slow car out of 2-3 is a bigger percentage and affects the average more than 5-6 slow cars in the 25-30 car group.

If you move to the 1/8 mile index, you'll hit automatic cars harder because the stick cars ET better further down track than the automatic cars. You'd also have to look at the fact that quite possibly the cars running more than 1.4 under gain more in the second half than the cars running 1.2 under or less, so the difference at the 1/8 mile may not be great enough to hit the faster cars first and/or harder. I'd have to look harder at a lot more data to see if trying the trigger at the 1/8 mile mark could work.

If you take away weight as a way to kill off ET, a smart racer will just kill timing and/or short shift to kill off ET, or do something else. We used to do it all the time running Super Comp instead of adding weight or using a throttle stop, because weight hurt the reaction time. Shift 1000RPM (or more) sooner for one or two shifts and you slow down. How are you going to stop that? Kill 20 degrees of timing and you slow down (all you have to do is leave the start timing retard on). How do you stop that? There are a bunch of ways to kill ET, too many for them to police. We can run the car 30 degrees hotter and kill ET. We can put thick oil in it, and add an extra quart and kill ET. Weight is just easy.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Alan, go reread my posts and please bring it to my attention just where it was that I want to move the trigger to less than 1.40? I'm fine with -1.40 I just want to move the percentage up if not on the first hit then on the second hit. The 375/396 is getting hit based on the -1.15 trigger not on the -1.40 trigger. That just goes to prove my point about a lot of "smart guys" working on a combo. As far as hitting the autos harder than the sticks by going to an 1/8th mile trigger, they are considered different combos anyway. I'm suggesting to take away the weight to keep them honest. I doubt any driver will take 20* of timing out of their car unless they're doing it down track. NHRA can't control where you shift your car or what oil is in your car, that's the difference between "bracket mode" and "on kill". I was really hoping to meet you at Gainesville as I feel that you're a pretty sharp guy and someone that I would enjoy talking to but your arguments against changing the "instant hit" are starting to get pretty thin. Too many "possiblys" in there.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

There are already people pulling timing out. Plenty of them.

You're grasping at straws, and trying to get NHRA to check even more than they do now, which they're not willing to do, by trying to force a maximum weight. Again, they'll just kill ET another way, it will not keep anyone honest. The smartest racers, who are usually the fastest, and most often running heavy, are smart enough to do other things if you tell them they cannot run heavy. Further, technically, that extra ballast is already illegal. Look how much removable ballast you are allowed. The rest is supposed to be permanent. Think about it. If they don't look for something now, what makes you think they'll start?

So, if you take the percentage of the hit up, historically, what would have happened? Recently, for example, Henson's hit would have been far worse on the rest of those Hemi cars. Henson is on the sidelines, at least for a while, and the rest of them are still suffering. Further, it was a silly mistake, he didn't even have to run it out. So ignore that, and look to see how many times the rarer cars capable of going really fast have been hit at 1.4 under. Not many.

You ignore the fact that a higher HP car that will run further under the index will likely gain more in the last 1/8 than in the first 1/8.

We won't be out for 3 more weeks, at least, and I'm not likely to drive again for a while, we're down to one car, and I'm by far the worst driver. We would like to have made Gainesville, but it just was not meant to be. I'm looking at a couple of cars to build, but the current economic situation means that's a long term process, barring a big score at the lottery, and I don't play it.

You may not like my arguments, that is fine. You may think they are thin. That's fine, too. But I'm familiar enough with the laws of probability, and the law of unintended consequences, that I'm also well aware of the fact that the one time NHRA will give you what you think you want is usually the time that what you think you want is really the last thing you want. I'd much prefer to see them do nothing rather than see them do something to make things worse. Put very simply, be very careful what you wish for, you may get it. And you may find out too late it doesn't look so good after you get it.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy be careful about the cars weighing to much.
The next thing, they will do is throw cars out for to little compression. Been there done that.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Or cylinder heads that look "too stock... well they don't look like the heads on those cars over there!" :rolleyes: :eek:

It's funny to me that guys keep complaining about how it's supposed to be a performance eliminator, yet they sit around a think up new ways to slow the cars down. :confused: Ron might be on to something with having more Class, or more heads-up runs in general, which is one thing that so many people say they love about Class racing... yet mention reducing the number of classes via weight breaks or combining sticks and autos and they go ballistic. Which is it?

Re: incremental data being too much work... download qdata and edata files from the Compulink system. Import into spreadsheet. Next?

Re: maximum weight being hard to police. uh... why? You already get a weight sticker. Take another 10 seconds out of your day and put the other number on the sticker, too. "They'll slow them down other ways" Err... ok. So do it.

So many people play the game and then act offended that people play the game. Whatever. Bottom line, for all its shortfalls, the best solution is a small committee of humans with a modicum of knowledge and common sense. Or, like I said before, factor *everybody* now against a baseline based on the years of data that's already been gathered, applying bell curve statistics.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I never said maximum weight was too hard to police, I said they would not do it. And I said it would be just another rule people would easily find a way around. So it is pointless. If you asked for it, and got it, then it did not work, what then?

I never said that incrementals actually represented "too much work", I said they were not interested in doing it.

No, the best solution is NOT a small group of people, especially not if NHRA chooses the people, and there is no recourse.

The BEST solution is to actually fix the AHFS system.

I doubt either will happen.

I agree, it is amusing that people claim to be in love with class racing because it is performance based, and then the same people will scream bloody murder if increasing the amount of heads up races is suggested, or if increasing the reward for performance is proposed.

It is also funny how people game the game and then complain when others do it.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Well if NHRA won't use the incremental data that they already have, then the AHFS is doomed. I like what Mr. Beard said, factor *everybody* now against a baseline based on the years of data that's already been gathered, applying bell curve statistics. That is a good idea.

I spoke with Len Imbrogno about three or four years ago and offered my thoughts on the use of incremental data. He seemed interested in it. I often wonder if NHRA has been doing this now for awhile and we are not aware of it.

If Beards suggestion or the use of incremental times are not used, all this discussion is moot. This thread has officially died along with the AHFS.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA the bearer of doom.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I think a min/max weight rule makes sense, even outside of any AHFS considerations. It seems pretty simple to me. You're at H weight? Then you're running H.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

You guys are making this way too complicated. The biggest problem with the AHFS is cars that can go 1.40 under at will.

A good solution would be the second time a car hits the 1.40 under it is no longer up to the AHFS percentages. The Stk/SS committee meets and decides where the refactored horsepower needs to be set no matter how much it takes to get the car inline. After that if the same combo ever hits the 1.40 under again, the committee sets the horsepower again.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Racer beware! Go too fast and get power. Set the number at 1.30 for automatic hits and leave the racer average at 1.15.

Just hit the go fast guy and leave the rest of the racers with his combo alone; unless they hit it as well. It's not that hard to do. Just add a personal weight sticker when the car is tech'd the next time.