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-   -   Changes? (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=53828)

Ed Wright 07-06-2014 09:16 PM
Re: Changes?
 
I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is. Any old thing will run under the index like it is now. You don't have to know anything to make one do it. They have really dumbed it down.

Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend. That looked like racing, and not surprisingly we put quit a few people in the stands. That made more money for the race tracks. Ever look in the stands at these LODRS shows now? About as many as come to watch bracket races. I don't think it has a thing to do with the spectators "understanding sportsman racing". I, and others, have explained dialing, and breaking out, to people. Most will tell you they think it is just dumb losing due to running too fast. To the vast majority of people, racing is trying to get there first. Nothing else makes sense to them. You can explain all you want, they don't "get it" or care to watch it.

You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.
You don't think everybody running harder would cause the new cars to have to run harder to win rounds and get some index & HP corrections?

Rose Racing 07-06-2014 09:47 PM
Re: Changes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 437071)
I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is. Any old thing will run under the index like it is now. You don't have to know anything to make one do it. They have really dumbed it down.

Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend. That looked like racing, and not surprisingly we put quit a few people in the stands. That made more money for the race tracks. Ever look in the stands at these LODRS shows now? About as many as come to watch bracket races. I don't think it has a thing to do with the spectators "understanding sportsman racing". I, and others, have explained dialing, and breaking out, to people. Most will tell you they think it is just dumb losing due to running too fast. To the vast majority of people, racing is trying to get there first. Nothing else makes sense to them. You can explain all you want, they don't "get it" or care to watch it.

You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.
You don't think everybody running harder would cause the new cars to have to run harder to win rounds and get some index & HP corrections?
Yes I do understand it as I watch Competition Eliminator as much as I watch Stock and one of the few that understand it. Just as most folks are I am a little hesitant to change....

Mike Pearson 07-07-2014 09:37 AM
Re: Changes?
 
I was at Daytona this weekend for the Coke Zero 400. I was amazed at the amount of construction taking place at the speedway. They are spending millions of dollars on the place adding a huge amount of seating, concessions and restrooms. Escalators to get to the upper seating. Its hard to believe that they adding more seats when they cant fill the seats they have now. I guess they are planning for the future when the economy picks up and we have more disposable cash. Nascar is crazy expensive for what you get in entertainment value. You can go to NHRA national event for the whole weekend for what it costs for an afternoon at the Nascar track.
Cost dictates everything in racing. If you make it more difficult it will only hurt the already dwindling car counts. we as racers need to do everything we can to help the new blood get excited about our sport.

cutta 07-07-2014 10:01 AM
Re: Changes?
 
The people I've exposed to racing simply are not interested enough to ever get involved or interested enough to pay to attend an event. They have about a 2hr interest window and then there interest is gone. I've also done a good job of explaining classes and why the classes are run the way they are, and have exposed them to Pro, Sportsman, and Outlaw racing. They simply aren't hooked enough to attend any of those events. In addition, when I explain the costs involved to race at these events and then further discuss the costs of the trailers and rigs people haul with, they definitely can't validate that kind of expense. At the end of the day, racing really is not an average mans game anymore unless your bracket racing or racing 4-6 events a year like local outlaw racers.

Michael Beard 07-07-2014 10:31 AM
Re: Changes?
 
You're more than welcome to go run Comp. Don't portend to destroy two eliminators for the sake of the "fans" who don't understand or care for Comp any more than S/SS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 437071)
I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is.
I'm a bracket racer. I've advocated for a number of things over the years to put more emphasis on performance, but the majority of class racers don't want change. If you have no cars, you don't have a race.

Quote:
Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend.
That's great. NASCAR looked a lot different years ago, too. We cannot unlearn what has been learned. You don't have flat out racing even in a CIC format anymore.

Quote:
You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.
Yes. The little guy wouldn't last long enough. You complain about the cost just to get to the race track, but want everyone else to compete in a cubic dollars format? Even looking at the Quick 32 CIC races at the Class Nationals, only a handful of the top 32 (let alone the dozens and dozens of slower qualified cars) realistically have any shot at winning. Making S/SS racing a CIC format would lose over half the field instantly, and many more would quickly dwindle away. You think it's a "factory race car" show *now*! No cars, no money, no race.

Ed Wright 07-07-2014 11:06 AM
Re: Changes?
 
[quote=Michael Beard;437132]You're more than welcome to go run Comp. Don't portend to destroy two eliminators for the sake of the "fans" who don't understand or care for Comp any more than S/SS. [QUOTE]

If I could afford it, I would run Comp. I don't have that kind of money.
Super Stock is one eliminator. I have no interest in how Stock is run.


Quote:
Yes. The little guy wouldn't last long enough. You complain about the cost just to get to the race track, but want everyone else to compete in a cubic dollars format? Even looking at the Quick 32 CIC races at the Class Nationals, only a handful of the top 32 (let alone the dozens and dozens of slower qualified cars) realistically have any shot at winning. Making S/SS racing a CIC format would lose over half the field instantly, and many more would quickly dwindle away. You think it's a "factory race car" show *now*! No cars, no money, no race.
With CIC, first car to the finish line wins. Spectators understand that.

What is a "little guy" in SS? What is a "big guy"? I'm semi-retired 70+ year old guy, and build my own engines. I have no crew, most always by myself . I'm a "little guy", right?

Mile High 07-07-2014 12:00 PM
Re: Changes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Pearson (Post 437123)
I was at Daytona this weekend for the Coke Zero 400. I was amazed at the amount of construction taking place at the speedway. They are spending millions of dollars on the place adding a huge amount of seating, concessions and restrooms. Escalators to get to the upper seating. Its hard to believe that they adding more seats when they cant fill the seats they have now. I guess they are planning for the future when the economy picks up and we have more disposable cash. Nascar is crazy expensive for what you get in entertainment value. You can go to NHRA national event for the whole weekend for what it costs for an afternoon at the Nascar track.
Cost dictates everything in racing. If you make it more difficult it will only hurt the already dwindling car counts. we as racers need to do everything we can to help the new blood get excited about our sport.
I took a tour of Daytona Speedway last fall. They said they are going to close the back stretch seating and have seating only on the one side when completed.

It's all bang for your buck. They are pricing themselves out of peoples reach. From the local bracket race to a national event make the prices where a person can afford to go. Make it the most affordable entertainment there is.

Bracket racing isn't that hard to follow. Most of us aren't brain surgeons or rocket scientists and we understand how it works. Make it affordable and promote it through the media. Watching the NHRA on ESPN if it isn't nitro its no big deal.

Jeff

Ed Wright 07-07-2014 03:55 PM
Re: Changes?
 
[QUOTE] Bracket racing isn't that hard to follow. Most of us aren't brain surgeons or rocket scientists and we understand how it works. Make it affordable and promote it through the media. Watching the NHRA on ESPN if it isn't nitro its no big deal.[QUOTE]

Jeff, it is not hard to understand, just boring to watch. Pretty much nobody cares to watch us. That makes it harder for track operators to make any money running us when they can't sell tickets to anybody to sit in the stands.

Rose Racing 07-07-2014 06:20 PM
Re: Changes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High (Post 437144)
I took a tour of Daytona Speedway last fall. They said they are going to close the back stretch seating and have seating only on the one side when completed.

It's all bang for your buck. They are pricing themselves out of peoples reach. From the local bracket race to a national event make the prices where a person can afford to go. Make it the most affordable entertainment there is.

Bracket racing isn't that hard to follow. Most of us aren't brain surgeons or rocket scientists and we understand how it works. Make it affordable and promote it through the media. Watching the NHRA on ESPN if it isn't nitro its no big deal.

Jeff
I agree and running S and S/S before anyone gets there isnt helping the cause either...........

Tom P 07-08-2014 01:13 AM
Re: Changes?
 
I think the fans are not fleeced any worse than at other sporting events, hockey and football games and music concerts all gouge fans worse. But as car enthusiasts we may not be used to that. Most of the people responding to my parts ads on Craigslist seem to think all prices are still at 1960's levels and i'm sure would balk at $20 to get in to a race never mind $60.

Besides the ticket prices there is still everything else costing more to leave less spending money.


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